The ama is toothless
#101
Unfortunately, you are correct. Same call sign, different guy. I just looked it up on the FAA site. Career FAA and USAF before that. Not our guy (who is also a former NASA shuttle commander in addition to many other accomplishments )
#102
Well I knew it was coming. I recieved an email from the club I belong to and they are now saying that the club may make it mandatory to have FAA registration to have club membership. I'll have to read it again to be accurate about what they are saying.
In regards to the 400 foot limit, I'm curious why no one has mentioned that full sized planes can fly no lower than 500 feet when not taking off/landing. Isn't it true that full sized planes are allowed to fly that low? If so this is perhaps why they are listing the 400 max rule under all circumstances. Anyone know for sure the minimum alt. rules for full sized a/c. I think that's what the 400max for r/c is all about. Structures 400 feet or higher are listed on navigation charts, correct?
In regards to the 400 foot limit, I'm curious why no one has mentioned that full sized planes can fly no lower than 500 feet when not taking off/landing. Isn't it true that full sized planes are allowed to fly that low? If so this is perhaps why they are listing the 400 max rule under all circumstances. Anyone know for sure the minimum alt. rules for full sized a/c. I think that's what the 400max for r/c is all about. Structures 400 feet or higher are listed on navigation charts, correct?
#103
There is nothing in the AMA rules about registration and the AMA said there will not be any such rule. Also the FAA will now use AMA for their registration, so it would be a check of the AMA number now.
#104
I just signed up and there is no reference whatsoever to the AMA. The FAA wants to know who you are, where you live, and that you understand the basic rules, which include: "I shall not fly over 400 feet". That's unconditional, by the way. Doesn't say "within 5 miles of an airport" doesn't say "jet, pattern, and glider guys get to go 1000AGL", and it does not say you can fly 1000AGL if you are AMA or any CBO. The AMA is irrelevant to the FAA.
At this point, the AMA has been totally outmaneuvered, and it is up to the courts to opine on the legality of the FAA's giant aeromodeling grab. Sorry guys, it's game over. Can't say I'm surprised.
FAA certificate FA 355XXXXX
AMA 795XXX
At this point, the AMA has been totally outmaneuvered, and it is up to the courts to opine on the legality of the FAA's giant aeromodeling grab. Sorry guys, it's game over. Can't say I'm surprised.
FAA certificate FA 355XXXXX
AMA 795XXX
#105
Unfortunately, this is not a guideline anymore. As certification holder, you have certified that you will not fly over 400AGL under any circumstances.
#106
My Feedback: (33)
Susihunter
There was a couple times it was brought up about the 500ft limit for full scale. I take it from the video everything that has been done is to control the big rush of new drone pilots. I am hoping that once it all shakes out the CBOs will have different set of rules. I have a feeling that the current flying club sites that are AMA sanction will be approve but future sites that go to the AMA for approval will take a lot to get the FAA to approve them.
Right now that is the way I see it.
There was a couple times it was brought up about the 500ft limit for full scale. I take it from the video everything that has been done is to control the big rush of new drone pilots. I am hoping that once it all shakes out the CBOs will have different set of rules. I have a feeling that the current flying club sites that are AMA sanction will be approve but future sites that go to the AMA for approval will take a lot to get the FAA to approve them.
Right now that is the way I see it.
#107
I am sorry but I am pretty sure this was not the Hoot Gibson you are referring to. I believe this guy just had the same name. That is what the AMA rep said when he introduce him. Also I don't think he had ever seen a RC airplane fly much less fly one. He is a recently retired USAF jet pilot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Gibson
#108
Well I knew it was coming. I recieved an email from the club I belong to and they are now saying that the club may make it mandatory to have FAA registration to have club membership. I'll have to read it again to be accurate about what they are saying.
In regards to the 400 foot limit, I'm curious why no one has mentioned that full sized planes can fly no lower than 500 feet when not taking off/landing. Isn't it true that full sized planes are allowed to fly that low? If so this is perhaps why they are listing the 400 max rule under all circumstances. Anyone know for sure the minimum alt. rules for full sized a/c. I think that's what the 400max for r/c is all about. Structures 400 feet or higher are listed on navigation charts, correct?
In regards to the 400 foot limit, I'm curious why no one has mentioned that full sized planes can fly no lower than 500 feet when not taking off/landing. Isn't it true that full sized planes are allowed to fly that low? If so this is perhaps why they are listing the 400 max rule under all circumstances. Anyone know for sure the minimum alt. rules for full sized a/c. I think that's what the 400max for r/c is all about. Structures 400 feet or higher are listed on navigation charts, correct?
http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/...raining-routes
Last edited by franklin_m; 01-12-2016 at 05:24 AM.
#109
My Feedback: (24)
When Part 107 comes out, then perhaps that might change, but I doubt it (that would be contrary to section 336).
Your assertion that you have to fly below 400' everywhere is simply wrong and I hope people who read your "opinions" don't take it as anything but that. Arguing the point with you further is simply not worth the time...
Bob
#110
My Feedback: (24)
Well I knew it was coming. I recieved an email from the club I belong to and they are now saying that the club may make it mandatory to have FAA registration to have club membership. I'll have to read it again to be accurate about what they are saying.
In regards to the 400 foot limit, I'm curious why no one has mentioned that full sized planes can fly no lower than 500 feet when not taking off/landing. Isn't it true that full sized planes are allowed to fly that low? If so this is perhaps why they are listing the 400 max rule under all circumstances. Anyone know for sure the minimum alt. rules for full sized a/c. I think that's what the 400max for r/c is all about. Structures 400 feet or higher are listed on navigation charts, correct?
In regards to the 400 foot limit, I'm curious why no one has mentioned that full sized planes can fly no lower than 500 feet when not taking off/landing. Isn't it true that full sized planes are allowed to fly that low? If so this is perhaps why they are listing the 400 max rule under all circumstances. Anyone know for sure the minimum alt. rules for full sized a/c. I think that's what the 400max for r/c is all about. Structures 400 feet or higher are listed on navigation charts, correct?
[HR][/HR] Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
[HR][/HR]
Manned aircraft can fly lower than 400' legally in sparsely populated areas - which is were our AMA field is. We often have light aircraft, ultralights, and helicopters come by a relatively low altitudes - although I have yet to see one significantly lower than 400'.
Even if they are below 400', you still have to avoid them - that's part of "safely operating in the NAS" which we are all obligated to do.
WRT your first point, have you read the FAQ from the AMA that says that they have worked out a plan with the FAA that, in the future, AMA membership renewal will also result in FAA registration (they could not work the technical details out before the Feb. 19th deadline)? I would think that changing the club rules to deal with what looks like a temporary requirement is not really warranted. I'm very glad my club is not like that...
Bob
Last edited by rhklenke; 01-12-2016 at 05:39 AM.
#111
Yes. The AMA leadership has said it, the FAA UAS people have said it, the FAA FSDO people have said it, section 336 says it - if you go out to your AMA field and fly according to the AMA safety code, there is no rule, regulation or law that says you have to stay below 400'.
When Part 107 comes out, then perhaps that might change, but I doubt it (that would be contrary to section 336).
Your assertion that you have to fly below 400' everywhere is simply wrong and I hope people who read your "opinions" don't take it as anything but that. Arguing the point with you further is simply not worth the time...
Bob
When Part 107 comes out, then perhaps that might change, but I doubt it (that would be contrary to section 336).
Your assertion that you have to fly below 400' everywhere is simply wrong and I hope people who read your "opinions" don't take it as anything but that. Arguing the point with you further is simply not worth the time...
Bob
#112
Part 91 > Section 119 - Minimum safe altitudes: General
[HR][/HR] Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
[HR][/HR]
Manned aircraft can fly lower than 400' legally in sparsely populated areas - which is were our AMA field is. We often have light aircraft, ultralights, and helicopters come by a relatively low altitudes - although I have yet to see one significantly lower than 400'.
Even if they are below 400', you still have to avoid them - that's part of "safely operating in the NAS" which we are all obligated to do.
WRT your first point, have you read the FAQ from the AMA that says that they have worked out a plan with the FAA that, in the future, AMA membership renewal will also result in FAA registration (they could not work the technical details out before the Feb. 19th deadline)? I would think that changing the club rules to deal with what looks like a temporary requirement is not really warranted. I'm very glad my club is not like that...
Bob
[HR][/HR] Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
[HR][/HR]
Manned aircraft can fly lower than 400' legally in sparsely populated areas - which is were our AMA field is. We often have light aircraft, ultralights, and helicopters come by a relatively low altitudes - although I have yet to see one significantly lower than 400'.
Even if they are below 400', you still have to avoid them - that's part of "safely operating in the NAS" which we are all obligated to do.
WRT your first point, have you read the FAQ from the AMA that says that they have worked out a plan with the FAA that, in the future, AMA membership renewal will also result in FAA registration (they could not work the technical details out before the Feb. 19th deadline)? I would think that changing the club rules to deal with what looks like a temporary requirement is not really warranted. I'm very glad my club is not like that...
Bob
#113
My Feedback: (7)
What is incorrect about what was said. I went to the site and while I did not complete the registration, it certainly appeared that you were certifying among other things "I will not fly over 400'" in order to obtain a registration number. While not flying above 400' is just a guideline, it would certainly seem that flying over 400' in violation of a certified agreement could nullify your registration and there are consequences for flying with out registration. Just because it's a guideline doesn't mean that there won't be consequences if you agree to follow it and then don't. I would certainly like some clarification before agreeing to something like that.
#114
What is incorrect about what was said. I went to the site and while I did not complete the registration, it certainly appeared that you were certifying among other things "I will not fly over 400'" in order to obtain a registration number. While not flying above 400' is just a guideline, it would certainly seem that flying over 400' in violation of a certified agreement could nullify your registration and there are consequences for flying with out registration. Just because it's a guideline doesn't mean that there won't be consequences if you agree to follow it and then don't. I would certainly like some clarification before agreeing to something like that.
#115
My Feedback: (24)
From what I've heard, BLOS will not be allowed for sUAS under Part107...
Bob
#117
I suspect most are at 1000 feet. A full scale at 1000 feet may seem a lot lower. Also when I flew full scale I did not take advantage of flying 500 feet above land, because the "sparsely populated" definition is not well defined, and 500 feet does not give enough time to get the plane to best glide speed and spot a field so I did not think that satisfied the part about being able to safely land. The only time I did that was during emergency landing practice, and close to the beach above water. If it is a problem I would call the FAA and complain about it, maybe post notices at the local FBO's.
#118
My Feedback: (7)
I does not say "I will not fly over 400'", it says "I will fly below 400 feet". That of itself does not say you cannot fly above 400 feet. It is a guideline and it says you will follow it. To follow means many things and one is to keep track of any changes. Of itself, It does not mean anything when used in law or contracts.
#119
Argue semantics all you like, it says that in order to receive your registration that you have AGREED that that you will fly below 400 feet which is exactly the same as agreeing to NOT fly above 400 feet. If you actually read what I wrote, I agreed 400 feet just a guideline but if you violate the terms that you have agreed to and certified as part of registering your model that would seem to possibly negate your registration if the FAA decided to push the issue for some reason. While flying above 400' is just a guideline, flying without registration DOES have consequences. You are certainly able to to view it however you wish but I really can't see how violating the terms of what could be construed as a signed, written contract between the registrant and the FAA means nothing as far as the law is concerned.
It's like saying a glass is not to be filled more then half full or not to be filled more then half empty. Same exact thing with the same exact results and in the FAA issue.... 400 feet. But I'm sure the next argue point will be something like "well a glass that holds a maximum of 12 ounces will hold more half empty compared to a glass that holds a maximum of 6 ounces half full
#120
Argue semantics all you like, it says that in order to receive your registration that you have AGREED that that you will fly below 400 feet which is exactly the same as agreeing to NOT fly above 400 feet. If you actually read what I wrote, I agreed 400 feet just a guideline but if you violate the terms that you have agreed to and certified as part of registering your model that would seem to possibly negate your registration if the FAA decided to push the issue for some reason. While flying above 400' is just a guideline, flying without registration DOES have consequences. You are certainly able to to view it however you wish but I really can't see how violating the terms of what could be construed as a signed, written contract between the registrant and the FAA means nothing as far as the law is concerned.
#121
I read the email from my club closer today. Basically they are saying we can fly at our club without FAA registration, but the moment the AMA makes FAA registration a requirement for their insurance, we will then be required to have the FAA registration and AMA membership to fly at our club. I'm sure this is what all clubs will be doing before too long.
#122
I read the email from my club closer today. Basically they are saying we can fly at our club without FAA registration, but the moment the AMA makes FAA registration a requirement for their insurance, we will then be required to have the FAA registration and AMA membership to fly at our club. I'm sure this is what all clubs will be doing before too long.
#124
The revenue decrease is either a result of fewer paying members, or more members moving from higher dollar open memberships to reduced dollar other types (senior discount?) or a combination of both. Either way, there does appear to be a financial incentive that may play here.
Now that AMA has said they are working to get the registration fee paid as part of AMA benefit, then suddenly all of those 30,000 "free" youth memberships just resulted in a big bill to the rest of us. $5 x 30,000 is a significant line item.