TTRotary

Unfortunately, you are correct. Same call sign, different guy. I just looked it up on the FAA site. Career FAA and USAF before that. Not our guy (who is also a former NASA shuttle commander in addition to many other accomplishments )

SushiHunter

Well I knew it was coming. I recieved an email from the club I belong to and they are now saying that the club may make it mandatory to have FAA registration to have club membership. I'll have to read it again to be accurate about what they are saying.

In regards to the 400 foot limit, I'm curious why no one has mentioned that full sized planes can fly no lower than 500 feet when not taking off/landing. Isn't it true that full sized planes are allowed to fly that low? If so this is perhaps why they are listing the 400 max rule under all circumstances. Anyone know for sure the minimum alt. rules for full sized a/c. I think that's what the 400max for r/c is all about. Structures 400 feet or higher are listed on navigation charts, correct?

Sport_Pilot

There is nothing in the AMA rules about registration and the AMA said there will not be any such rule. Also the FAA will now use AMA for their registration, so it would be a check of the AMA number now.

Sport_Pilot

It says you are acknowledging a guideline. It really doesn't count for much. Also it does not say you cannot fly above 400 feet. The FAA even said it is just a guideline.

Sport_Pilot

It says guideline right on the site, and certificate!

jws_aces

My Feedback: (33)

Susihunter

There was a couple times it was brought up about the 500ft limit for full scale. I take it from the video everything that has been done is to control the big rush of new drone pilots. I am hoping that once it all shakes out the CBOs will have different set of rules. I have a feeling that the current flying club sites that are AMA sanction will be approve but future sites that go to the AMA for approval will take a lot to get the FAA to approve them.

Right now that is the way I see it.

Sport_Pilot

This Hoot Gibson?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Gibson

franklin_m

FYI, there's literally thousands of of Military Training Routes around the country, VR routes, IR routes, and SR routes where aircraft can travel at high speeds and very low altitudes. Some of the VR routes I flew allowed you to be as low as 200' AGL and 420KIAS or more. Route widths vary by leg, but can be as much as 16 miles either side of centerline. And yes, some are even flown at night on NVGs or FLIR.

http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/...raining-routes

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Yes. The AMA leadership has said it, the FAA UAS people have said it, the FAA FSDO people have said it, section 336 says it - if you go out to your AMA field and fly according to the AMA safety code, there is no rule, regulation or law that says you have to stay below 400'.

When Part 107 comes out, then perhaps that might change, but I doubt it (that would be contrary to section 336).

Your assertion that you have to fly below 400' everywhere is simply wrong and I hope people who read your "opinions" don't take it as anything but that. Arguing the point with you further is simply not worth the time...

Bob

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Part 91 > Section 119 - Minimum safe altitudes: General

[HR][/HR] Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.


(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.


(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.


(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

[HR][/HR]
Manned aircraft can fly lower than 400' legally in sparsely populated areas - which is were our AMA field is. We often have light aircraft, ultralights, and helicopters come by a relatively low altitudes - although I have yet to see one significantly lower than 400'.

Even if they are below 400', you still have to avoid them - that's part of "safely operating in the NAS" which we are all obligated to do.

WRT your first point, have you read the FAQ from the AMA that says that they have worked out a plan with the FAA that, in the future, AMA membership renewal will also result in FAA registration (they could not work the technical details out before the Feb. 19th deadline)? I would think that changing the club rules to deal with what looks like a temporary requirement is not really warranted. I'm very glad my club is not like that...

Bob

Sport_Pilot

The rules for model aircraft will be in part 101 not 107 per the sUAV NPRM. Part 107 will be for commercial sUAV. Your recreational "drones" will be considered model aircraft. However, I suspect if BLOS is allowed that will require a commercial ticket.

Sport_Pilot

Model fields with more than one person is an open assembly so that would require a minimum altitude of 1000 feet.

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

What is incorrect about what was said. I went to the site and while I did not complete the registration, it certainly appeared that you were certifying among other things "I will not fly over 400'" in order to obtain a registration number. While not flying above 400' is just a guideline, it would certainly seem that flying over 400' in violation of a certified agreement could nullify your registration and there are consequences for flying with out registration. Just because it's a guideline doesn't mean that there won't be consequences if you agree to follow it and then don't. I would certainly like some clarification before agreeing to something like that.

Sport_Pilot

I does not say "I will not fly over 400'", it says "I will fly below 400 feet". That of itself does not say you cannot fly above 400 feet. It is a guideline and it says you will follow it. To follow means many things and one is to keep track of any changes. Of itself, It does not mean anything when used in law or contracts.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

You are correct about Part 101, my mistake. As far as an "open assembly" I'm not sure what the interpretation there would be, but our field is grass on edge of a farmer's field and up against a line of trees. It is *very* hard to spot from the air and even though its out in the middle of nowhere, we have low-level aircraft that occasionally go by - at, or near 400-500'. When we fly jets there, we have spotters...

From what I've heard, BLOS will not be allowed for sUAS under Part107...

Bob

FBaity

My Feedback: (2)

The AMA died long ago, the only this remaining is blood suckers.

Sport_Pilot

I suspect most are at 1000 feet. A full scale at 1000 feet may seem a lot lower. Also when I flew full scale I did not take advantage of flying 500 feet above land, because the "sparsely populated" definition is not well defined, and 500 feet does not give enough time to get the plane to best glide speed and spot a field so I did not think that satisfied the part about being able to safely land. The only time I did that was during emergency landing practice, and close to the beach above water. If it is a problem I would call the FAA and complain about it, maybe post notices at the local FBO's.

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

Argue semantics all you like, it says that in order to receive your registration that you have AGREED that that you will fly below 400 feet which is exactly the same as agreeing to NOT fly above 400 feet. If you actually read what I wrote, I agreed 400 feet just a guideline but if you violate the terms that you have agreed to and certified as part of registering your model that would seem to possibly negate your registration if the FAA decided to push the issue for some reason. While flying above 400' is just a guideline, flying without registration DOES have consequences. You are certainly able to to view it however you wish but I really can't see how violating the terms of what could be construed as a signed, written contract between the registrant and the FAA means nothing as far as the law is concerned.

SushiHunter

Exactly

It's like saying a glass is not to be filled more then half full or not to be filled more then half empty. Same exact thing with the same exact results and in the FAA issue.... 400 feet. But I'm sure the next argue point will be something like "well a glass that holds a maximum of 12 ounces will hold more half empty compared to a glass that holds a maximum of 6 ounces half full

Sport_Pilot

A guide line and a phrase like "I will fly below 400 feet" is not something that would hold up in court. And the FAA in fact admitted as much. The registration is illegal as well so that might not hold up in court either.

SushiHunter

I read the email from my club closer today. Basically they are saying we can fly at our club without FAA registration, but the moment the AMA makes FAA registration a requirement for their insurance, we will then be required to have the FAA registration and AMA membership to fly at our club. I'm sure this is what all clubs will be doing before too long.

Sport_Pilot

This is now moot. The FAA will be using the AMA's registration.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I am *VERY* sorry you feel that way. My conversations with the AMA leadership have indicated that this is very much not the case. They are committed to "no modeler left behind" and that includes turbine jet flyers as well as SAFE multirotor flyers.

Bob Klenke
JPO President

franklin_m

If you look at AMA's IRS 990 forms from the last three years published, which actually go back to 2007 data since each one has current year and three prior, you see that in constant 2014 dollars the AMA's membership revenue has dropped each year since 2007. Since those same forms say that 93% or more of their revenue comes from membership dues, I think you ask a valid question.

The revenue decrease is either a result of fewer paying members, or more members moving from higher dollar open memberships to reduced dollar other types (senior discount?) or a combination of both. Either way, there does appear to be a financial incentive that may play here.

Now that AMA has said they are working to get the registration fee paid as part of AMA benefit, then suddenly all of those 30,000 "free" youth memberships just resulted in a big bill to the rest of us. $5 x 30,000 is a significant line item.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

And yet you gladly display all the things the AMA has given you in your signature line. I presume you've turned in your AMA card and will no longer fly.