Pilot Dolphin Jet 86" trainer conversion to EDF
01-29-2016, 08:22 PM
#26
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Thank you, that is quite light weight....... Still on the table. I have a tendency to overdo or try to take my projects up a notch from standard. It makes me enjoy the hobby that much more, i love the design and research side of things. Forever making it just a little better than the last one.
01-30-2016, 07:52 AM
#28
The best part about a fully molded exhaust pipe is how nicely they fit on the fan shroud and look they can have a performance benefit but hardly enough to justify the high cost of having a custom one made. Personally I would use mylar as I might want to adjust the exhaust diameter a slight bit to find the best performance then I would consider doing a lightweight fiberglass version. One thing I might mention to you is The internal structure in front of the fan Will most likely create a lot of white noise.
01-31-2016, 04:38 AM
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Bob_B
Do you mean the fuselage internal structure? There is about a 10"x5"x5" clear area directly in front of the intake on the edf. I am not sure I can do much with the area where the air comes into the fuse. Does this not effect a turbine as well or do they move the air differently than edf? I understand the propulsion from the expansion of the fuel, I just have not researched the air side of kero turbines.
I am going to take this plane to gasoline alley when I am done with assembly, I found a guy with a small tunnel we can check airflow with smoke. however to test this properly I would have to use the edf as the actual fan when testing so this might become a little more difficult.... If so I will setup my own plexiglass tunnel and run the jet inside with colored smoke to see any turbulence. I think I can put plexi where the hatch is so inside is visible.
Do you mean the fuselage internal structure? There is about a 10"x5"x5" clear area directly in front of the intake on the edf. I am not sure I can do much with the area where the air comes into the fuse. Does this not effect a turbine as well or do they move the air differently than edf? I understand the propulsion from the expansion of the fuel, I just have not researched the air side of kero turbines.
I am going to take this plane to gasoline alley when I am done with assembly, I found a guy with a small tunnel we can check airflow with smoke. however to test this properly I would have to use the edf as the actual fan when testing so this might become a little more difficult.... If so I will setup my own plexiglass tunnel and run the jet inside with colored smoke to see any turbulence. I think I can put plexi where the hatch is so inside is visible.
01-31-2016, 05:07 AM
#30
I'm sure it does affect turbines it is just not noticed over the roar of the motor with the EDF you can hear the white noise much easier. Don't concern yourself with it. I have a similar built model and once I installed the inlet ducting this reduced airframe noise considerably. I still use an inlet ring the ducting stops about 3 inches short of the face of the fan.
FYI if you're doing static testing make sure all of your components get plenty of cooling air you'll want to limit your full throttle applications too.
FYI if you're doing static testing make sure all of your components get plenty of cooling air you'll want to limit your full throttle applications too.
01-31-2016, 05:30 AM
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I was giving this some thought, and i think the airframe will have to be mounted in the tunnel, with tunnel fan set to 100mph, then 150mph....... While simultaneously running the edf at various throttle levels as well. Thus simulating in flight airflows.
Im not sure i can manage such a test...... At least not realistically, or inexpensively. So maybe I will leave this to the engineers and for lack of better terminology....."just fly the damn thing" lol
I will look into a smoother path for intake to fan....
Im not sure i can manage such a test...... At least not realistically, or inexpensively. So maybe I will leave this to the engineers and for lack of better terminology....."just fly the damn thing" lol
I will look into a smoother path for intake to fan....
Last edited by indycustombikes; 01-31-2016 at 05:33 AM.
01-31-2016, 01:28 PM
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I have modified some previous posts to show actual progress. I tried to make it less confusing, but cant delete some posts. so I will continue from here with the build.
Sorry for any confusion.
Please note,
I ended up working on the intakes for smoother airflow, I made the thrust tube over and used .005 mylar coated with 5 oz. cloth, and I had to go back and drop the mounting location of the edf by 3/8" to get a straight shot with the thrust tube...
Sorry for any confusion.
Please note,
I ended up working on the intakes for smoother airflow, I made the thrust tube over and used .005 mylar coated with 5 oz. cloth, and I had to go back and drop the mounting location of the edf by 3/8" to get a straight shot with the thrust tube...
Last edited by indycustombikes; 02-05-2016 at 12:39 PM.
02-11-2016, 04:26 AM
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Some more progress....
The esc is mounted under the battery/ fuel tank tray. I have added a vent so that air is constantly pulled across the cooling fins..
All servos are now mounted (pretty typical to an arf)
The electric landing gear is now all installed, and went without a hitch.
I am debating on making gear doors, I think it would be easy enough up front, and just do partials on the mains to clean up the airflow a little. I have some carbon fiber sheets 1/16" I can use for this.
02-11-2016, 04:30 AM
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Here is a question for you Bob_B
I know you are well versed in the demon cortex setup.... this is my first Cortex Gyro on a plane.
I have available on the cortex 2 ail, 2 elev., 1 rudder....... with the dx18 and 12 channel powersafe Rx.
What do I do with the steer servo? I can Y it to the rudder but then it will turn while gear is in the up position, or I can simply leave the steer servo to another channel on the RX and not run it through the gyro with a mix so gear up means 0 movement.
What is the general consensus on this?
The Pilot gear controller has no function to control steer servo, I have used dreamworks controllers that address this with a steer servo shut off function built in.
I know you are well versed in the demon cortex setup.... this is my first Cortex Gyro on a plane.
I have available on the cortex 2 ail, 2 elev., 1 rudder....... with the dx18 and 12 channel powersafe Rx.
What do I do with the steer servo? I can Y it to the rudder but then it will turn while gear is in the up position, or I can simply leave the steer servo to another channel on the RX and not run it through the gyro with a mix so gear up means 0 movement.
What is the general consensus on this?
The Pilot gear controller has no function to control steer servo, I have used dreamworks controllers that address this with a steer servo shut off function built in.
Last edited by indycustombikes; 02-11-2016 at 04:34 AM.
02-11-2016, 07:32 AM
#37
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Ive managed to get all electronics on board... and put her on the scales with all batteries............ 28 lbs 12 oz.
I would say once the gear doors are on I will be at an even 29...........
14s 10,000mah 35c and two 2s 2200 mah for electronics
So not a perfect 1:1 with the ds-94 - 700 but pretty close I would say, should be pretty well matched to this trainer.
I would say once the gear doors are on I will be at an even 29...........
14s 10,000mah 35c and two 2s 2200 mah for electronics
So not a perfect 1:1 with the ds-94 - 700 but pretty close I would say, should be pretty well matched to this trainer.
02-11-2016, 07:46 AM
#38
Here is a question for you Bob_B
I know you are well versed in the demon cortex setup.... this is my first Cortex Gyro on a plane.
I have available on the cortex 2 ail, 2 elev., 1 rudder....... with the dx18 and 12 channel powersafe Rx.
What do I do with the steer servo? I can Y it to the rudder but then it will turn while gear is in the up position, or I can simply leave the steer servo to another channel on the RX and not run it through the gyro with a mix so gear up means 0 movement.
What is the general consensus on this?
The Pilot gear controller has no function to control steer servo, I have used dreamworks controllers that address this with a steer servo shut off function built in.
I know you are well versed in the demon cortex setup.... this is my first Cortex Gyro on a plane.
I have available on the cortex 2 ail, 2 elev., 1 rudder....... with the dx18 and 12 channel powersafe Rx.
What do I do with the steer servo? I can Y it to the rudder but then it will turn while gear is in the up position, or I can simply leave the steer servo to another channel on the RX and not run it through the gyro with a mix so gear up means 0 movement.
What is the general consensus on this?
The Pilot gear controller has no function to control steer servo, I have used dreamworks controllers that address this with a steer servo shut off function built in.
I do not typically run my steering servo through a gyro, I put it on a separate channel and I do limit the amount of throw and use expo on the Steering function, I started doing the following too:
I set up a dual rate for the nose gear steering using a spring loaded switch. When I pull the switch it activates High rate for taxi, when I release the switch it is now on Low rate with expo for T/O.
It works great and as never forget to set the steering to low rate for T/O, a member of the our jet group came up with the idea after almost ground looping his model, it's a good one too.
02-11-2016, 08:14 AM
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Coincidently My CG ended up being 3/8" forward of recommended for the trainer wing, I think this is a great starting point.
I did however have to move the main packs forward to the next level to make this happen, that means where the fuel cell normally sits is open and will keep obstructions from the intake ducting... Lucky I suppose
I did however have to move the main packs forward to the next level to make this happen, that means where the fuel cell normally sits is open and will keep obstructions from the intake ducting... Lucky I suppose
02-14-2016, 09:30 AM
#41
My first controller also smoked. Tony sent me a replacement but the replacement controller does not function properly on the left gear so I'm waiting to hear back from Tony. I'm hoping to hear back soon because I've had these gear for more than two months...
03-03-2016, 03:58 AM
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Finally getting some time, I have made some progress.... here is the nose gear and a gear door setup I fabricated to try to make the airframe a little slicker. (I know the steer servo is mounted backwards in the photo. lol)
03-03-2016, 04:05 AM
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All wired up and ready for programming, take note to the location of batteries required for CG and the vent added in the bottom of the fuse for esc cooling. still trying to decide on gear doors for the mains or just leave as is......
03-03-2016, 04:15 AM
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I went with the dreamworks e-gear controller for a few reasons....
1. I it disables the steer servo in retracted position, so I can leave the steer servo on gyro for takeoff.
2. It is easily programmed for gear doors, timing, brake pulse, amp cutoff and much more.
I went ahead and set the stall amperage for the gear at 1 amp, as far as I know that is the lowest of any manufacturers setups (usually 2 amps) and I wanted to be safe.
Now for a technical question:
The e-brakes........... Pilots brakes have the two wires in the servo connection as the standard black and red in outer position and center position, respectively, as usual on a servo wire. I am pretty sure dreamworks is the two outer wire positions i.e. the ground and signal wire position.
I can easily solder an adapter for this, but before I do.......... do all the e-brakes work the same? Is there something I should check before hooking these up?
1. I it disables the steer servo in retracted position, so I can leave the steer servo on gyro for takeoff.
2. It is easily programmed for gear doors, timing, brake pulse, amp cutoff and much more.
I went ahead and set the stall amperage for the gear at 1 amp, as far as I know that is the lowest of any manufacturers setups (usually 2 amps) and I wanted to be safe.
Now for a technical question:
The e-brakes........... Pilots brakes have the two wires in the servo connection as the standard black and red in outer position and center position, respectively, as usual on a servo wire. I am pretty sure dreamworks is the two outer wire positions i.e. the ground and signal wire position.
I can easily solder an adapter for this, but before I do.......... do all the e-brakes work the same? Is there something I should check before hooking these up?
Last edited by indycustombikes; 03-03-2016 at 04:20 AM.