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BVM Composite Bandit Build Thread. Yes from 1998.

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Old 03-10-2016, 07:28 PM
  #26
essyou35
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I'll have to check my notes, I cant recall the difference between the super bandit and what I have.
Is the composite bandit built to take abuse like that? He was yanking some serious Gs on those pullups. I don't fly my jets like that. I like his slow passes with strong climbouts, that what I am going for.
Of the two vids posted so far in this thread, it appears the bandit has a sort of dutch roll. I assume a cortex or igyro will fix that?
I have an Igyro3 in my viper jet for that reason. But I don't like how it makes it land, fighting the natural flare. It has lengthened my landing runouts until I get used to flaring it more manually.

BTW I forgot, I have the wing tanks too.

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Originally Posted by roger.alli View Post
Nice..

My SB has the regular Duro struts. It used to need a fair bit of steering and careful use of throttle on take offs, but now have a gyro on nose gear, rudder and ailerons. That solved any issues, but I don't often fly from grass.
Question for you, how do the main flex plates hold up to grass operation?

For Essyou, Check this Bandit with a P120. (With wing tanks to add drag) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYvrLAdNbo
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Old 03-10-2016, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essyou35 View Post
I'll have to check my notes, I cant recall the difference between the super bandit and what I have.
Is the composite bandit built to take abuse like that? He was yanking some serious Gs on those pullups. I don't fly my jets like that. I like his slow passes with strong climbouts, that what I am going for.
Of the two vids posted so far in this thread, it appears the bandit has a sort of dutch roll. I assume a cortex or igyro will fix that?
I have an Igyro3 in my viper jet for that reason. But I don't like how it makes it land, fighting the natural flare. It has lengthened my landing runouts until I get used to flaring it more manually.

BTW I forgot, I have the wing tanks too.
As far as I know, and Harley can probably provide more info, the Classic Composite Bandit, (as you have) and the Super Bandit, share very similar construction. They are both very strong airframes.

My Super and Balsa bandit exhibited no dutch roll. But I do use a gyro for other reasons.

Actually to be fair, Im not really trying to dissuade you from using the K 140. (Hell, I have a M 140 in my SB) The airframe, if built well, will be up to it. Just be prepared for a monster fast jet.

The aerodynamics on these sport jets (both Bandits and CARF Flash for that matter) are in another league than a JL viper.. They are designed to go fast..

Roger
..
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:24 AM
  #28
essyou35
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So I did some research on the servos the bandit ARF needs, which I Assume would work for the composite bandit. Im sure its in the manual but my manual is still sealed.

It looks like the main servo is a JR9411, with an 8411 on the flaps. There are are 3421s minis on the elevators.

Im not a JR guy, only because I've always used hitec and futaba servos. The only JRs are I had are the 3421 and there kinda crappy, always buzzing and not sounding too healthy.

Im going to use the Hitec 5685 https://www.servocity.com/html/hs-56...l#.VuLUQ2cUV0M
These well go on everything except the elevators. These servos are at least 50% stronger than the recommended servos from JR.

Since I am not sure if I need minis servos or not yet for the elevators, I will plan to use the HS-7245
https://www.servocity.com/html/hs-72...l#.VuLUjmcUV0M
If it appears I can use the 5685 then I will do so all around.

Not sure what type of servos they had in 1998 but will be interesting to see what they recommended.

These are just my tentative choices, open for suggestions. I don't want to start a servo war, I use Hitec in all my jets and not a single issue except with the smaller servos.

Last edited by essyou35; 03-11-2016 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:53 AM
  #29
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This model used standard size elevator servos. Not like the ARF.
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Old 03-11-2016, 07:27 AM
  #30
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Perfect, I can use the same servos all around. Not bad at $40 a pop, wont break the bank and i'll have stronger servos than in 1998.

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This model used standard size elevator servos. Not like the ARF.
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:55 AM
  #31
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We did not have 140N turbines in 1998 either.

Don't skimp on the elevator servos.
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:01 AM
  #32
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+1
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:10 AM
  #33
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the servos for the BARF are 75 in/oz
The Servos I am proposing are over double that...

What do you propose I use? Oh my viper I have a 400 in/oz servo is that more like it?
I like the 7954Sh, its been my go to for several jets. Keep in mind that is 25lbs of torque, so 50 total if I go that route. Far cry from ~10 lbs of torque on the barf!

Hey if you think I should do I'll consider it!

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Perfect, I can use the same servos all around. Not bad at $40 a pop, wont break the bank and i'll have stronger servos than in 1998.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:02 AM
  #34
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this can become sort sort of political issue if I am not careful.

Saying you are going to put $40 servos on the back of a model capable of flying 285 mph and pulling 15+ Gs.....well that is up to you.

I just ran the numbers. A 150 ounce*inch (stall torque) servo on each side should provide enough margin (2x over stall) for a full elevator pull at 240 mph.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:03 AM
  #35
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If you do build it you probably want to change the way the wing bolts work too. Again, copy the super bandit as much as possible.
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:36 PM
  #36
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Where can I get a SB reference to see how things are done?

BTW, I also run cheap radio system, a Futaba 8fg upgraded to a 14 channel. I have hundreds of turbine flights and thousands of RC flights with not even 1 hiccup.

I may op for some stronger servos on the flaps though.
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:18 PM
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Harley is a great source of knowledge but you can always call BVM directly
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:28 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essyou35 View Post
Where can I get a SB reference to see how things are done?

BTW, I also run cheap radio system, a Futaba 8fg upgraded to a 14 channel. I have hundreds of turbine flights and thousands of RC flights with not even 1 hiccup.

I may op for some stronger servos on the flaps though.
BV used to sell the plans and manual.

I think the classic bandit used to spec the 4131 for the ailerons. Maybe 2721 or 4721 for flaps. Still a good choice on flaps. I would use digitals on ailerons for sure.
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Old 03-13-2016, 08:12 AM
  #39
essyou35
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#1 thing to figure out is if the bypass will work with my K140g. It looks like a tight fit.
If I need a bigger one going to have to start searching.
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:14 PM
  #40
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It will fit. They don't need much clearance and that motor's diameter is only 1/32 larger than a p-80.

Unless it does not have the original bypass. Back then I think there was only one bypass for the RAM 750
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Old 03-14-2016, 07:09 AM
  #41
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Its the RAM 750 bypass. What I am seeing is that I don't use the turbines stock mounts. Weird.

I'll have to read the manual. Im finishing up some things on my YA f-18 then will start on this.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:12 AM
  #42
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The P-80, P-120 abnd RAM 750 use the BVM T340 bypass tube. The cover part number is T342. It should fit the K-140G.

Last edited by Harley Condra; 03-16-2016 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:21 AM
  #43
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Thanks Harley, Will check the part # when I get home.

Do you know if I can get the upgraded hinges the SB used?
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Old 03-15-2016, 08:36 PM
  #44
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Hello,
May i chip in?!
I do have a few bandit and already build and flew a lot of different set ups
First, this airplane is a tight fit as far as concern, well, everything, even servos i little bit bigger give you a hard time to install and setup so if you already got this airplane at a low price, waste some money in good servos.
I'm not a JR guy I fly Futaba 18 mz, but for this airplane I installed JR 8411 on Ailerons/ Flaps/ Stab and for the rudder the JR 9411 ( classic Bandit) the barf i or II is a different animal!
Manly because it's a tight fit, especially on the flaps and the 8411 although it's amid size servo and looks like the same size of the other it's indeed a bit smaller, and that small difference in size will help you on the installation, to give you a perspective the flaps are attached to the wings with maple woods cutted to size where a L shape carbon fiber reinforced plastic is screwed on this maple block, but the near the flaps are so tight that a regular servo screw will not fit ( it wil hit the polyply cover) so that one need to be countersunk, sanded and attached with a flat head screw. Add a bit bigger servo on this equation and you are heading for trouble ( not worth the money saving on the Hitec or other)
You can buy the BARF II alluminum Ts for the aileron and wings, it helps the install of the flaps and Aileron, money well spent
Also the clevis for the flaps hit the the top of the wing' s fiber glass skin, where there is a semi circle poly ply to cover the hole, that is how tight this assembly is
The rudder servo bay is very tight as well and the dimensions of the 9411 works good for the application
Yes, you can get the carbon fiber hinges from BVM I bought it in the pass and it's a nice touch to the assembly
Please use the double wall pipeand add the ceramic mat covered with the alluminum foil that goes glued to the top of the fuse, there is a template on the plans to cut it
Also don't forget to paint the inside of the bypass and the tail cone with the BVM ceramic paint
About the engine if you already have the KT 140, go for it, yes It's a overkill, but nothing that make the model untamed
I have one Super Bandit with a Jet cat P160SX and one with a Jet Cat P120SX, and yes the one with a 160 it[s faster ( how much? I don[t know) But the fuel consumption is higher and there's not much gain really. The one with a P120SX in my opinion is the best setup, I used to have one with a P80 and the airplane fly great as well, not so strong on take offs, and when you really get used to the airplane you fell that you could go a little faster
Same thing happens with a my BARF I with a P100RX, great combo, but not the fastest plane on the field
About the gear If i had he money i changed them for the BVM purple one with duro strut, the one you have works but it's a little high maintenance for me
basically I'll keep with every thing BVM told you to do, It's not the cheapest way,at least at the beginning, but it pays itself in time, the equipment is bullet proof well engineered and safe you a lot of headaches
With the exception of the smooth stop I II or even the III LOL, It's a pain to setup and eventually it will leaks
Again all this IMHO

Good luck
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:22 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essyou35 View Post
Thanks Harley, Will check the part # when I get home.

Do you know if I can get the upgraded hinges the SB used?
The hinges for the Super Bandit are machined from carbon fiber plate stock.
I suppose Patty would sell them to you, but I can't quote the cost. .Call her at 407-327-6333.
You would need 12 pair (24 pieces).
A set of plans and the instruction manual would prove to be helpful.`
It would be VERY difficult to install them properly without the full size drawing and the assembly manual. You will also need about 3 pieces of 1/16 piano wire for the hinge pins, and a length of Nyrod inner (yellow) for the bearings.
The attached photo shows a "ship set" (aerospace term for one airframe's worth) of them.
As you can see, I have used some of them for other jobs.
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Old 03-16-2016, 01:20 PM
  #46
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You could just hinge them with Robart pinned hinges as well, I get the ones without the pin installed (or it is easy to cut them out) and then use a hinge pin wire.

EDIT: altough the CF ones are nice for the flap hinges, I would definitely switch to CF for the flaps. Those dubro pin type hinges on the classic bandit are a pain on the flaps!
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:23 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley Condra View Post
T You will also need about 3 pieces of 1/16 piano wire for the hinge pins,

It's .055 not 1/16.

Jason
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:09 PM
  #48
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I decided to try to sell this jet for now, its in the classifieds. Not sure of the exact worth but would really hate to botch up this antique.
But if it doesn't sell Ill go ahead and build it. I'll give it a couple weeks.
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Old 03-21-2016, 06:49 AM
  #49
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I've got a JC Cheetah in my Super Balsa Bandit! Flies like a dream.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:57 AM
  #50
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I had good offers on this jet, nearly 6X what I paid for it. However I always wanted a bandit so here I have one might as well keep it.

I am finishing up a paint job on my YA f-18 single.

I just placed an order through BVM for an updated dual wall pipe. Im not going to mess with a single wall I hack together and a 140N turbine.

I do think I am going to consider the trailing link struts from dreamworks as well since I may not end up with flex plates on the main gear.

I did ask about the hinge pins. I am also concerned about the servos, Ill have to figure this out once I get in there.

My Skymaster mig-29 wanted to use older JR servos and I used some hi-tech. They were a very tight fit BUT it was due to the thickness of the wing. I got them to fit flush with some scraping but not ideal. It appears the JR it wanted are about 1mm thinner, if that.

Im not sure why they are tight fit in the bandit it has a super thick wing! More to come and thanks for all the information so far!
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