Art ARRO

My Feedback: (5)

Johnny,
You may want to hop over the the RC Pattern Forum for additional info on painting models. Pat Harris, (AKA Portlandflyer) is a superb source of valuable information which he describes in detail. He posts on the RC Pattern forum. Also check out MTK, posting on the Classic Pattern sub forum. These guys paint with a gram scale nearby to minimize weight build up and still achieve a fantastic finish on their 2M+ pattern models. Also, LGM Graphics posted some painting tutorials on this Jet Forum but this was a while also and may take some digging to find. Good luck on your painting quest.
Rgrds,
Art ARRO

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

I did a BVM T-33 last year in Klasscote which is a 2 part epoxy. I did add clear on top but that is not strictly necessary. If you start here on post 813:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=813 (look at the whole thread but skip to 813) there are lot's of pics of the whole painting / sanding and buffing process.

All spraying done with a cheap gun and a .8mm tip. You can use a larger tip for the primer or just thin it more until it sprays.

Johnny9390

My Feedback: (34)

Is ok to use rustoleum filer primer for the initial coat after glassing to fill and find and fix all low spots and THEN use K36 primer for final priming? Or just stick to K36 for the whole priming process? Are the twoo compatible?

dbsonic

My Feedback: (3)

what do you plan to paint over it? if automotive urethanes I would stick entirely with K36.

roger.alli

Personally, I would stay with just one system of paint.. The K36 primer is a high build primer and, as has been mentioned is very easy to work with.

I tip that I learned from an article written by Bill Harris.. (A master painter)

For the first coat of primer applied to a glassed surface..

Mix up some primer, thin it a bit, and then add micro balloon filler. Spoon it in ratio of about 50% primer to 50% micro balloons. You want the mix to be a nice thick paste consistency.
Now BRUSH this on to the finished wings. Apply nice and thick.
After cure, sand it ALL off except what remains in the low spots. It sands really easy.

This acts as a very light weight weave/ding/depression filler. You can then spray prime as normal, and won’t have anywhere near as many imperfections to work on..

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

I wouldn't use K36 though......too expensive for what it is. Your local supply shop will have other alternatives that cost only a fraction and are just as good or better. I really like the Advantage brand stuff.

Very likely you will end up throwing most of the quart away, unless you are planning on starting a model painting business. :-)

Johnny9390

My Feedback: (34)

I was planning on using PPG Automotive paint. Only cause its what BVM explains on their manuals what they use and its my first paint job. Until I understand all the different types and brands of paints I rather stick to one that is explained in the manuals instead of searching for all the different types and how to use them. I just ordered a Quart of the primmer and K201 Hardner for 99 bucks and the reducer DT 885 for 28 bucks. Thanks Roger I will use your method of brushing on first coat. I was just curious about the Can primmer because of small spot primming might have to be doing instead of mixing up and painting with a gun for very small fixes etc.

Johnny9390

My Feedback: (34)

Can someone send me a picture of what the wings or fuse would look like RIGHT before you apply the base coat?? Should it be completely Covered in Primer or Sanded primer..

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

That's fine. I did the exact same thing my first time. Learned quickly though! :-)

The best primer I have ever used was a Sherwin Williams Automotive that required no hardener, only a thinner. Now that stuff was worth in excess of $200/qt, but a friend just gave me half a pint or so to prime my Bandit.

Since you are glassing for finishing, not strength, you want the glass cloth to look dry when its cured. I take a piece of paper towel while it is still wet and just dab it onto the cloth until it looks kind of dry. Yes you will see the weave in the end, but no wrinkles (wrinkles will become holes later on). Some folks prefer to fill the weave with an additional coat of resin, but I like doing it the BVM legacy way which is to fill the weave with primer......which is soooooooo much easier to sand and get better results than having to sand cured resin.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Johnny, in reality a blend of sanded primer. I normally do a last light coat of primer for "self verification", to make sure there are no imperfections, as the solid color of the primer makes it easy to spot them. And then just sand it off with a wet 800.....ends up looking like sanded primer.

Johnny9390

My Feedback: (34)

Great Thanks guys for all the info!!

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

This is what my wing looked like before color. The silver areas are stick on aluminum details from Pro Mark, the little bare area out at the tip was of no concern as it is covered by the tip tank, there is a bit of spot filler top left leading edge (red) and underlying gray primer exposed slightly. All the white is sanded 2 part klasscote primer.

Chordwise and lengthwise lines are panel lines cut into the primer.

Johnny9390

My Feedback: (34)

I was reading on Klasskote and that looks likemgood paint as well. Also house of color but just as expensive as PPG. Will look at klasskote for next plane BVM Aggresor III i have as a full kit

Johnny9390

My Feedback: (34)

What do you guys normally use to wipe down the area to be painted with to remove any grease or dust etc before spraying?

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

DX330 and then a tack rag.

roger.alli

Falcon is spot on.. Just try to keep the final primer coat as light as possible. These high build primers are heavy.

dbsonic

My Feedback: (3)

I'm still debating about what to do for clear coats.

1k are a lot safer but not that durable. Can deteriorate under long term fuel exposure.
2k are great but somewhat dangerous to shoot. and probably sand.

What are people using?. Can I even shoot 2k over 1k basecoats?

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Let me just say that you should really stay with one system. Spraying one brand over another is risky.


Are you doing gloss or matte finish?

In my experience a strong (catalyzed polyurethane) clear can melt a weak undercoat (like plane jane enamel model paint, testors for instance). In any case try your combination.

To me there is so much work involved by the time you are laying down clear you want as close to zero potential problems as your wallet will allow.

dbsonic

My Feedback: (3)

I'm wanting to do high gloss and considering Spraymax 2k. Most of the basecoat is PPG Omni but I do have some small section in that is testors enamel. Agree with what you are saying.. nothing would be worse than the final stage going bad..

Seems like I better do some clear coat testing. I was also considering a U-pol 1k. Not sure where to get it though.

dbsonic

My Feedback: (3)

nice article with painting tips and discussion on respirators vs free air at the end.

http://www.tulsacl.com/Finishing.html#anchor_35

ChuckC

My Feedback: (24)

Hey db sonic,

Industrial Hygiene is my career; after a ton of study, what I found was that once the urethane is catalyzed and set, it prevents very little hazard. It's typically the isocyanate catalyst that's the problem, before and when spraying.

And thats the the trick you can manipulate. If you use a brand new combination HEPA and organic vapor cartridge on a respirator, you can filter out the particles/chemicals that are mixed and about to polymerize. For the amount of spraying we do, this is adequate along with skin protection.

Been there, done that and monitored it.

i like urethanes, but also respect them. Caveat-if you get allergic to any given urethane or epoxy, for that matter, very small amounts will give you that "peanut allergy" response. Most people don't experience this, however.

paulsf86

My Feedback: (52)

Agree with Chuck, safety is of prime importance. Use a high quality respirator. I use an inexpensive 12x12 pop up as a spray booth with inexpensive sides. Remember that Halogen lights get hot so find some fluorescent or led lights. Also a good squirrel cage blowers (explosion proof) blowing from inside to outside the tent.

Any time you dilute epoxy resin, you change the chemistry and the characteristics of the final surface. Z-poxy finishing resin does not require thinning and is easy to brush on and squeegee out.

Paul S

ChuckC

My Feedback: (24)

There's a TON of toxicological data out there supporting the supposition that once polymerized, urethanes in general present little to no difference in hazard than any other plastic in handling, sanding etc. But, you sure would do well to keep the mixed liquid off you while handling it, because 1) you can develop an allergy from skin exposure (not likely, but it does happen) and 2) it's tough to get off you when it kicks. Witness Great Stuff foam...clear coat not as messy, but still...yuck. BTW, you need a new respirator cartridge each day you spray; once opened, even the humidity in the air fills the adsorption sites in the activated charcoal.

Good lock and show us your project - My next one is this weekend or early next week and will actually be an old surfboard; shooting it with some single stage, catalyzed automotive urethane. Nasan, I believe. Never shot this brand.

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

A friend of mine built a beautiful F-4 Phantom once and tried a flat clear he had not used before. It looked great until a couple of weeks later when he decided to use an air gun to spray off some dust and all of the clear blew off.

juanjulian

My Feedback: (9)

Jhony

No expert but novice improving to acceptable.

Spray guns no need to get a first class gun until your experience needs better results. http://www.tcpglobal.com/TCP-F3-SET.html#.V1ltQNROKrU
Very happy with this gun it is a Iwata lph 50 clone with out the hvlp. Have another more expensive but this is may favorite for hobby use.

Check my avatar for my builds here and on rcgroups. Several pictures and results.

Go with a proven procedure and brands for proven results.

1. .75 glass
2. Your project is not small so go with west system epoxy brand. Get a quart and fast hardener. GET THE SMALL BATCH KIT that comes with balance and two pouring botles.
3. In a art store buy brushes that come with a rubber tip instead of hair. This work exellent for aplying glass.
4. For first time don't try the peel film proccess until you master the glassing first. To much to do for firts time.
5. After glassing don't go for second resin coat waste of time, go directly to filling weave.
6. first coat of primer is brushed and rolled one. Since first job it wont be perfect and lots,lots,lots and lots of sanding. Sapraying primer at this time means repeating this several times. Lesson learned.
6.They sell a fine putty tham comes like a tooth paste. After primer roolled and brushed apply in all low spots or errors.
7. The boring lots of sanding. Sand off almost completly first primer coat. 350 fit wetsand paper. Prepare to get dirty. Use water to sand and have a rag to pick up all excess watter.
8. Second coat of primer is sprayed on. I like ppg omni mp182 primer has fillers in and easy to sand. Get a painting mask to protect your lungs a must. If lucky you are finished, if find more imperfections needs to be filled with putty and more sanding.
9.Now is good time to change primer and go with white primer keep same brand or can ruin all your work and redo.
10. Decide wich paint job to do. I used single stage for my first project. Have done only one project with
two stage using ppg omni clear medium cure. Check auto aircolors and watch Simon Murray videos. A must. Makes want to go to united kingdom to take a lesson. Coast airbrush sells their products online.
11. For clear coat have a more expensive eastwood concourse mini gun. Has good results but think is over priced and probably the same taiwan gun as tcp global. Get the hvlp big gun for this to have a big spray fan.

For primer 1.5 tip, and 1 tip for omni single stage. I always use more reducers as manufacturer says.

cheers

Juan
Guatemala