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New Kingtech ECU Soon to be released!!!

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Old 07-08-2016, 10:58 AM
  #51
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Update on the new ECU!

We will have 2 demo units to show at Kentucky Jets.
The big switch over to the new ECU is close. Not sure on the exact day but very soon all engines sold will have the new ECU. Also we have some other surprises I wish I could talk about coming soon! Lots of very exciting things coming in the near future

Come see us at Kentucky Jets and check out the new ECU!
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Old 07-09-2016, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
Update on the new ECU!

We will have 2 demo units to show at Kentucky Jets.
The big switch over to the new ECU is close. Not sure on the exact day but very soon all engines sold will have the new ECU. Also we have some other surprises I wish I could talk about coming soon! Lots of very exciting things coming in the near future

Come see us at Kentucky Jets and check out the new ECU!
Hurry up and tell us!!! haha I cant wait to see the new ECU.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:28 AM
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I wonder if the new ecu will come with my new K160 that will ship with my T1 in a few weeks

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Old 07-16-2016, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
Update on the new ECU!

We will have 2 demo units to show at Kentucky Jets.
The big switch over to the new ECU is close. Not sure on the exact day but very soon all engines sold will have the new ECU. Also we have some other surprises I wish I could talk about coming soon! Lots of very exciting things coming in the near future

Come see us at Kentucky Jets and check out the new ECU!
Okay, I keep checking the forum and anything to do with Kentucky jets and I've not seen anything about this ECU from you, Barry or Dirk. Does that mean the unit didn't make it?
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Old 07-16-2016, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Okay, I keep checking the forum and anything to do with Kentucky jets and I've not seen anything about this ECU from you, Barry or Dirk. Does that mean the unit didn't make it?
We did a demo with a glider owned by Franco with house of power hobbies! On his glider it did 4 inflight restarts. Its truly a game changer.
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Old 07-17-2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
Dave this was also a concern of mine. The ECU does have safety features built into it like it looks for a correct temp and makes sure it has RPM before putting fuel back in for the start. If the engine is seized it will not attempt a start. I dont think this feature will be for everyone. I could see it being useful for people with twins or sport jets that can stay in the air long enough for a restart.

I am still waiting on more details on how exactly this works because people that are doing a dead stick really need to be aware and trim it low so it does not try and restart while its on the ground in grass or crashed. Like I said waiting on more details on this function.
This facility had also been tested by Xicoy and their version is an instant restart. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPoRI5S1biY.

So Kingtech users who want to retain Xicoy telemetry could just get an updated xicoy ECU (maybe even just a s/w upgrade - that should be all that is needed.)

HOWEVER...

This is a very easy ECU function to implement - and could easily have been done years ago - so why wasn't it?

I think the answer was that while turbines were very new the assuption was that if the engine stopped there was probably a good reason for it - and the last thing you would want to do is pump more fuel in. Of course if it was a deliberate engine stop - as in a glider - then that is fine - but then there would also be (more or less by defintion) sufficient time for the engine to cool and a normal start to be made. This has of course always been possible for those ECUs with a 2 channel control system - eg Jetcat.

I think that what has happened recently is that we now believe that the turbine itself is reliable and the probable problem is something minor like an air bubble.

However I can forsee the use of this facility potentially being banned on safety grounds on insurance advice.

After all - if your problem is air bubbles - then you should probably fix your fuel system - and almost any other use sounds dangerous to me.

Richard Cant

Safety officer GTBA
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Old 07-17-2016, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
We did a demo with a glider owned by Franco with house of power hobbies! On his glider it did 4 inflight restarts. Its truly a game changer.
Alright, but when do the rest of us get access to the beastie?
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:25 PM
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I hope it come out soon, because I would consider buying a kingtech turbine with this new ECU! I need a turbine for my new T-1, that on its way.
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kelly vallee View Post
I hope it come out soon, because I would consider buying a kingtech turbine with this new ECU! I need a turbine for my new T-1, that on its way.
From best I can tell any orders after the next few weeks should all have the new stuff.

Richard the auto restart is a small function of this ecu and not for everyone.

I will post pics tomorrow of the new unit.
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:19 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
Richard the auto restart is a small function of this ecu and not for everyone. .
I am raising the safety issue now because auto restart is becoming a common trend. (I note that everyone seems to be claiming to be "the first" - they can't all be right)

Jets Munt are already offering it (consequently it will appear soon on other engines using their ECU) and the new ACE turbine as well as Kingtech.

Clearly there are specific considerations that need to be addressed as to when the system can be activated.

I would assume that all the manufacturers would avoid activating it if any of the following have happened.

1) Failsafe activation.

2) EGT max temperature exceeded or sensor failure.

3) RPM sensor failure or shaft will not turn.

However the two remaining potential causes of uncommanded engine stop namely fuel supply interruption and "falling off the bottom" when returning to idle are also potential symptoms of problems that could make restarting inadvisable. In addition to that you probably don't want the engine to restart after it has landed - even if it happened safely.
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmp3cantrj View Post
However the two remaining potential causes of uncommanded engine stop namely fuel supply interruption and "falling off the bottom" when returning to idle are also potential symptoms of problems that could make restarting inadvisable.
Not sure what "falling off the bottom" is but can you give your reasoning why it would be inadvisable to restart after a fuel supply interruption (assuming all other parameters mentioned above are met)?
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:03 AM
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Here are pics of new ECU. Cable plugs are pretty much fool proof with an mpx on the new pump.

A new feature on the fuel pump is it self loops fuel to prime itself during the burner phase then when its time for ignition a solenoid on the fuel pump opens to instantly supply fuel. ECU and new data terminal both have nice metal cases. The touch screen is very easy to use and easy to see in full light.

The ecu records up to I believe 6 hours of run history you can look up. It will also continue to run if you loose a temp probe by only giving you 80% throttle and ecu will use past average data to keep engine running until you land. Yes it also has the auto restart feature but allot of models won't find that part useful. We did try it out at Kentucky a few times and the engine would restart in 3 seconds after fuel interruption.


......can't get pics to upload right now. Will try back soon
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:58 AM
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:24 AM
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Sweet

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Old 07-19-2016, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
pics
What's with the extra two wire lead coming from the fuel pump?
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:11 PM
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What's with the extra two wire lead coming from the fuel pump?
If I am not mistaken, The extra wire lead you see is for the new automatic fuel shutoff valve.
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:38 AM
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I too saw this at KY Jets. This is a great addition to a great turbine company. It's good to see companies push the envelope using current technology. The screen is really bright and the idea of a self priming pump is great. I'm looking at this item closely and will be interested in buying the setup once it's been thoroughly tested.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:00 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigG View Post
What's with the extra two wire lead coming from the fuel pump?
That is a new function. The pump will loop the fuel in it self priming it during the the beginning of the start. Then when its time for fuel it let's the fuel go.

Dirk,Barry and I all feild allot of service calls related to the pump not being primed or jet was not used in a long time and the lines where not primed well. This will help with that problem.
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Old 07-22-2016, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CraigG View Post
Not sure what "falling off the bottom" is
"Falling of the bottom" refers to the situation where the rpm falls below the level at which the engine is self sustaining. This can happen following a rapid throttle back if the airflow conditions around the engine are abnormal or if there is a minor fault somewhere. If you develop your own ecu (as I have) it is a problem that you become aware of when you are trying to optimise the throttle response.

Quote:
but can you give your reasoning why it would be inadvisable to restart after a fuel supply interruption (assuming all other parameters mentioned above are met)?
Gaspar Espiell (who designed the Jets Munt restart system) gives the reasons here
http://www.jetsmunt.com/wp/2016/07/1...tart-function/

It follows my thinking pretty closely - I can't do much better - except to add that 15 seconds is usually plenty of time for a safe deadstick landing.
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Old 07-22-2016, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmp3cantrj View Post
"Falling of the bottom" refers to the situation where the rpm falls below the level at which the engine is self sustaining. This can happen following a rapid throttle back if the airflow conditions around the engine are abnormal or if there is a minor fault somewhere. If you develop your own ecu (as I have) it is a problem that you become aware of when you are trying to optimise the throttle response.



Gaspar Espiell (who designed the Jets Munt restart system) gives the reasons here
http://www.jetsmunt.com/wp/2016/07/1...tart-function/

It follows my thinking pretty closely - I can't do much better - except to add that 15 seconds is usually plenty of time for a safe deadstick landing.
Good points. Thanks
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Old 07-22-2016, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmp3cantrj View Post
"Falling of the bottom" refers to the situation where the rpm falls below the level at which the engine is self sustaining. This can happen following a rapid throttle back if the airflow conditions around the engine are abnormal or if there is a minor fault somewhere. If you develop your own ecu (as I have) it is a problem that you become aware of when you are trying to optimise the throttle response.



Gaspar Espiell (who designed the Jets Munt restart system) gives the reasons here
http://www.jetsmunt.com/wp/2016/07/1...tart-function/

It follows my thinking pretty closely - I can't do much better - except to add that 15 seconds is usually plenty of time for a safe deadstick landing.
Seems like your "falling off the bottom" is similar to what we call - undershooting a targeted RPM, either case, our experience tells us that it has not been the fault of our ECUs, not Xicoy, nor KingTech, typically is the cause of tight seal in the fuel pump or fuel delivery restrictions, which could typically be determined by idle stability and overall pump load in relation to throttle settings. This is also why some set ups would require higher delays than others.

Thank you all for contributing thoughts and suggestions.

Regards,
Barry
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by marquisvns View Post
... our experience tells us that it has not been the fault of our ECUs, not Xicoy, nor KingTech, typically is the cause of tight seal in the fuel pump or fuel delivery restrictions, which could typically be determined by idle stability and overall pump load in relation to throttle settings. This is also why some set ups would require higher delays than others.

Thank you all for contributing thoughts and suggestions.

Regards,
Barry
Of course, once the ECU and engine are fully developed and in production it will only happen when some aspect of the system is behaving abnormally - during deveopment of an ECU and or engine however it is a different matter.

Kurt Schreckling referred to it as the "slow destroying method" for turbines. - however a production ECU will generally shut off the fuel before things get too hot.
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Old 07-27-2016, 11:41 AM
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Is the new ECU good for 2S lipo or is 3S life still recommended?
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Old 07-28-2016, 05:38 PM
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Barry, will the xicoy spectrum telemitry adaptor still work with the new ECU?

Thanks

TB
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Old 07-28-2016, 05:45 PM
  #75
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Barry, will the xicoy spectrum telemitry adaptor still work with the new ECU?

Thanks

TB
I don't think it needs an adaptor anymore but not positive
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