Rapid auto restart function for our turbines.
07-22-2016, 06:51 AM
#26
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 504
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
All of this could be taken care of with the pilot having some control over the restart. In the case of a flame-out as a result of some suspicious failure or flames, the reflex is to kill the engine, which should be instilled in the pilot anyway.
Could be kill switch or close throttle, close throttle trim whatever. Should the pilot deem the restart to be a safe option the engine can restart but only settle at idle, regardless of throttle position. The pilot could then cycle the throttle stick through low throttle and allow the engine to spool up from there should he wish to do so. Certainly an engine that spools up unexpectedly on a desperate landing attempt would be disastrous. There is enough info for the ECU to make a clever decision given proper code. A telemetry feedback (audible) on the engine restart progress would be great.
That said I do not wish to have a setup where I would need re-start. In the last 18 years or so I can remember only one flame-out using my own stuff.
Not rocket science.
I can tell you Rocket Science is really hard. I have been doing ECU's for 20 years now and its child's play compared to Launch Vehicle systems.
Its not that complicated people...
Andre
Could be kill switch or close throttle, close throttle trim whatever. Should the pilot deem the restart to be a safe option the engine can restart but only settle at idle, regardless of throttle position. The pilot could then cycle the throttle stick through low throttle and allow the engine to spool up from there should he wish to do so. Certainly an engine that spools up unexpectedly on a desperate landing attempt would be disastrous. There is enough info for the ECU to make a clever decision given proper code. A telemetry feedback (audible) on the engine restart progress would be great.
That said I do not wish to have a setup where I would need re-start. In the last 18 years or so I can remember only one flame-out using my own stuff.
Not rocket science.
I can tell you Rocket Science is really hard. I have been doing ECU's for 20 years now and its child's play compared to Launch Vehicle systems.
Its not that complicated people...
Andre
07-22-2016, 10:49 AM
#27
All of this could be taken care of with the pilot having some control over the restart. In the case of a flame-out as a result of some suspicious failure or flames, the reflex is to kill the engine, which should be instilled in the pilot anyway.
Could be kill switch or close throttle, close throttle trim whatever. Should the pilot deem the restart to be a safe option the engine can restart but only settle at idle, regardless of throttle position. The pilot could then cycle the throttle stick through low throttle and allow the engine to spool up from there should he wish to do so. Certainly an engine that spools up unexpectedly on a desperate landing attempt would be disastrous. There is enough info for the ECU to make a clever decision given proper code. A telemetry feedback (audible) on the engine restart progress would be great.
That said I do not wish to have a setup where I would need re-start. In the last 18 years or so I can remember only one flame-out using my own stuff.
Not rocket science.
I can tell you Rocket Science is really hard. I have been doing ECU's for 20 years now and its child's play compared to Launch Vehicle systems.
Its not that complicated people...
Andre
Could be kill switch or close throttle, close throttle trim whatever. Should the pilot deem the restart to be a safe option the engine can restart but only settle at idle, regardless of throttle position. The pilot could then cycle the throttle stick through low throttle and allow the engine to spool up from there should he wish to do so. Certainly an engine that spools up unexpectedly on a desperate landing attempt would be disastrous. There is enough info for the ECU to make a clever decision given proper code. A telemetry feedback (audible) on the engine restart progress would be great.
That said I do not wish to have a setup where I would need re-start. In the last 18 years or so I can remember only one flame-out using my own stuff.
Not rocket science.
I can tell you Rocket Science is really hard. I have been doing ECU's for 20 years now and its child's play compared to Launch Vehicle systems.
Its not that complicated people...
Andre
Vin...
07-22-2016, 11:13 AM
#28
Thread Starter
I just had a chat with Gaspar.
The AMA regulations 510a 8. state that the ECU shall be configured to shut the engine OFF within 2 seconds of fail safe activation. Once failsafe has been activated, the engine shall not be allowed to restart as per this point.
The AMA regulations 510a 8. state that the ECU shall be configured to shut the engine OFF within 2 seconds of fail safe activation. Once failsafe has been activated, the engine shall not be allowed to restart as per this point.
07-22-2016, 01:49 PM
#29
While the first part of your statement is true, there is no mention of a restart, either permitting it, nor prohibiting it. I believe that it simply was not thought of when that rule was written as this was generally not possible given the technology at the time.
This is an area where further thought is required...
Bob
07-22-2016, 02:14 PM
#30
I would think this is a totally different issue, turbine shut down from fail safe condition vs something like an air bubble is different. I personally don't care either way if the restart saves my jet from crashing or worse cause a major incident due to a crash is a good thing for our hobby. A lot of the rules AMA has are out dated and need to evolve with the technology.
that being said it should not be used to keep flying till you feel like landing.
that being said it should not be used to keep flying till you feel like landing.
07-22-2016, 04:22 PM
#31
I would think this is a totally different issue, turbine shut down from fail safe condition vs something like an air bubble is different. I personally don't care either way if the restart saves my jet from crashing or worse cause a major incident due to a crash is a good thing for our hobby. A lot of the rules AMA has are out dated and need to evolve with the technology.
that being said it should not be used to keep flying till you feel like landing.
that being said it should not be used to keep flying till you feel like landing.
One of the jobs of the JPO is to keep those rules updated - as we did when we upped the thrust rules to 50 lbs installed static thrust last year. The jury is still out on this restart issue, so its too early to propose a rules change, but if you feel there are rules that should be updated, please let me know.
Bob Klenke
JPO President
