Kelly Rohrbach

My Feedback: (1)

So guys, thought I would ask which one guys are using, I would assume jet-A but now the turbine builders say either in some cases. What's the ups and downs, price obviously being one of them.

luge_racer

I'm still fairly new to turbines, but I've only ever run diesel. The advantages I've read are, more power, better fuel economy, better availability and less expensive.

josecilurzo

Diesel have more power ( 8300 Kcal / Kg x 8466 Kcal / Kg ) , less sulfur , high flash point , after many questions to manufacturers , i started use on my engines, and, after around 120 hs in 5 engines, with 3 inspections and bearing changes after more 40 hs run time on 2 of my engines, i dont back to jeta1.
I change the oil too, today MOBIL DTE 32.
i'm happy with the results, and, is very easy to me buy JETA1, the airport gas station is very close to my office, but, today i cant see any reason to use it!!!

hope help

jose

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

There's several pages on this somewhere here but the consensus (if you can have that on RCU) is most of the guys are running diesel now.

Kelly Rohrbach

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks guys. So is this OK in all older units as well like jetcat p80 se

flyinfool1

My Feedback: (2)

The consensus may be for diesel on those engines that can drink it. I still prefer K1 Kerosene, Of the 3 fuels it has the lowest stink, (at least to the better half's and my noses) and since my jets live in the house, that means more to me than the ease of getting or the slightly lower price of diesel. Jet-A stinks the worst.

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

I know at one time, Redman blessed the use of diesel in all of the jetcat motors. Now whether that still stands today, I don't know

josecilurzo

All ours engines runs diesel ( p80se, p90rxi, p140rx, p70 ), without any problem.
jose

arizcowboy

My Feedback: (14)

I've seen one jet cat P - 80 refused to run on diesel would after a few minutes start popping and over temp on diesel switched back to Kero and jet A cured problem . Terry

cmp3cantrj

Most of these things depend on where you are - the quality of diesel is NOT the same everywhere and the price of both fuels varies.

IMO the safe option is always Jet A, If you do use diesel then you should go for one of the premium versions eg Shell Vpower, as they contain additives that promote complete combustion.

Where I live diesel is usually more than twice the price of Jet A (because of tax) so it is no contest.

Don't follow this forum - follow your local fliers!

Kelly Rohrbach

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the information, its real hard to find information that simply compares the two fuels and the true difference between the two. Clearly both will work but to what extent is the question. I would assume that Jet A has more additives for the full scale aviation segment and how that translates to our turbines is the question. I know KingTech fully endorses it and seem to prefer it. JetCat has given it the green light as well.
Price, check
Availability, check
More Power, check
Longevity and bearing life ???

josecilurzo

In 2 set of bearings i had the same longevity, aftter 3 inspections, and, 1 set doesnt changed after 28 hrsrun time, on diesel.

jose

Vettster

Let me put your mind at ease Kelly...

I had the Jet P-80se for years in a Sprint jet. One day I GPSed it at 172mph with Kero. I then drained the tank and added Diesel.. It hit 197mph!! (straight and level, No dive!) Enough said? lol I continued to run the diesel without issue for 2 more years. I never heard any bearing squeal.. but when it hit 25hrs I sent it into JC to be replaced. They never said there was any problems. I only sold that engine because there service is so piss poor(4 months to service)

The convenience and the LOW cost of diesel is a no brainer. Now some have mentioned that diesel also has its own lubricants...Most likely true.. but I still added 5% Kingtech oil and never had a problem.

Check out the power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdnDfXPDAo

cmp3cantrj

Your speed test doesn't add up to a valid experiment -way too many uncontrolled variables - especially since it is a GPS speed and not an airspeed. Frankly I don't believe that fuel change could make such a difference. It is a source of heat and diesel heat simply cannot be any different to Jet A1 heat.

As far as low cost goes - well over here diesel is VERY heavily taxed as road fuel and so costs twice the price of Jet A1.

I have seen some evidence that PREMIUM diesel may have some advantages in terms of complete combustion if you want to minimise emission of unburnt hydrocarbons.

gunradd

My Feedback: (9)

Kelly on the bench at Kingtech we have seen about a 5% increase in performance. Also the engines don't stink when they come in for service and that makes the service guys happy.

When we switch a Kingtech engine over to diesel we have to turn the start settings down because the diesel burns hotter and that is a good thing.

Vettster

Yes that is what I I was thinking at the time..."I sure hope that I did this test scientifically enough to satisfy all the other self proclaimed jet scientist".. lol.. get a life buddy! I don't need a closed test circuit to see that the plane gained much more speed and the GPS confirmed it. And btw the GPS records ground speed. So unless the wind picked up 20mph from the time the kero was removed and diesel added?.... Wow. Fun...try it sometime.

Vettster

This shows how very little you know about this topic! ALL diesel sold in Europe and North America is ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) There is no premium diesel!! That is just a name slapped on at the pumps that means "this Diesel has our Special additives for easy starts" Less smoke, Cold weather etc. The diesel without this extra stuff that has no importance to us at all..... is ALL IDENTICAL no matter who refines it!!

So just buy reg diesel. Want to save on the taxes?? buy Heating oil! Its the same thing without the taxes!! Its just colored Red so it can be identified.

Stop commenting without getting a basic knowledge first!

Kelly Rohrbach

My Feedback: (1)

So are you still running 1qt oil to five gal fuel and if so any turbine oil ok. Thanks gunradd

Henke Torphammar

It's not two fuel but one specific fuel (Jet A) put against a whole brand that differs allot. Diesel can be almost everything from Jet A to almost pure soy oil. Over here we got Diesel that includes 5% RME (rape seed oil) which makes it ready to run from the tap! much less smell and available every where. But I know there are other belnds of diesel too that won't work. They got a thing called bio diesel here too. They let RME react with methanol to get a much more fluent bio oil that suites modern cars. How ever with the turbines it might not work.

So JetA is to prefer as it's always the same - diesel is to prefer as it smells less and is avalable all over. Then there are a various of lamp oils or kerosene that some run, but over here we can not get it. $40 per liter or so, which sort of leaves it out of a resonable range.

LA jetguy

Kelly, for reference a liter of Diesel weighs 875 grams, Kerosene 817 grams, and Jet A 810g...

If weight is of no issue Diesel is a good choice.... In my experience lighter flies better...

David..

Henke Torphammar

Hard core to save weight on fuel. Smaller tank does the trick too ;-) I like the thinking about weight though.

erbroens

Jose is a guy that flies a lot and burns a lot of fuel, in this case diesel.. he never had issue with it. In fact, his ball bearings looked like new in the 50 hours turbine disassembly.


About diesel being heavier than jet a1 is correct, but boy...this is so wrong! LOL

marquisvns

Hi Hanke,

I had done some testings with various bio-diesels at least few years ago, and none seemed to have any adverse effect or performance on our engine. The only difference I seem to remember was the smell of bio-diesel and smoked a little more than road diesel during shut down.

Regards,
Barry

Kelly Rohrbach

My Feedback: (1)

So it sounds like Diesel is fine to use with no ill effects to the engine. So as long as the turbine manufacture has no issue with it in terms of warranty its good to go.
I would assume then just do the 1 Qt to 5 Gal mix as usual and have fun.

Kelly Rohrbach

My Feedback: (1)

Come on Dave
POWER flies better