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Bavarian Demon Cortex PRO is here!!

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Old 10-11-2017, 07:57 AM
  #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1 Rocket View Post
Not new. We thought the engine shut downs were being caused by the CB going into failsafe but this was not the case. Looking further into it we found what I described above.
Thinking about this a bit more, does this mean that these turbine shutdowns were occurring even for guys that had their secondary receiver connected directly to a CB200 because the Cortex Pro was still always sending data (it's own pseudo fail-safe data learned during setup) to the Sat 1 port ? If so that would seem to indicate that the connection scheme of Primary Rx to Cortex Pro and Secondary Rx to CB200 doesn't accomplish anything since as long as the CB200 is receiving valid data on Sat1 from the Cortex Pro it will never use the data from Sat 2 ? In other words does this mean that guys flying with their secondary Rx connected directly to Sat2 of the Cb200 are basically fling only on the primary receiver ? Would it work any better if the Secondary Rx is connected via the Cortex Pro.

Just trying to understand this issue more fully as I was planing on flying my Hawk this weekend which has a Cortex Pro and CB200 and if this is the case I'll either completely remove the Cortex Pro from the airplane for now or leave it grounded until V1.5 is available.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:50 AM
  #377
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I think �� at least I interpreted what they said by doing the following, when teaching my Cortex with CB100/200/400 to connect only the servos that uses the gyro....

So what I did is disconnect the turbine, flaps, retracts ect......do the learn...then reconnect all the stuff....I will pause my flying until this is clear, I’m starting to having doubt in this cortex thing...
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:59 AM
  #378
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As F1 Rocket says, just teach the Cortex Pro with the unstabilised channels in a 'safe' position (i.e. with the throttle at idle and not shut off).

As I am led to believe, all of these 'problems' only occur when operating with extremely poor (almost non-existent) signal conditions. As I understand it, the shutdowns are unlikely to occur in normal operating conditions, can be eradicated by re-teaching with the throttle not in the shut off position and will be fixed completely in firmware 1.5.
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:01 PM
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siclick33 View Post
As F1 Rocket says, just teach the Cortex Pro with the unstabilised channels in a 'safe' position (i.e. with the throttle at idle and not shut off).

As I am led to believe, all of these 'problems' only occur when operating with extremely poor (almost non-existent) signal conditions. As I understand it, the shutdowns are unlikely to occur in normal operating conditions, can be eradicated by re-teaching with the throttle not in the shut off position and will be fixed completely in firmware 1.5.
Yes but we were also told that this is what has been happening all along and the turbine shutdowns previously experienced and supposedly fixed in V1.4 were not caused by the CB200 going into fail-safe but rather this problem. I know of several people that experienced turbine shutdowns with complete loss of all control while standing near the model preparing to take off or when taxing back following a flight and the Q was near perfect the entire flight. And it wasn't just a turbine shutdown everything stopped working all together. I've experienced this behavior first hand on the bench. While these problems occurred with V1.3 firmware we were also told at the time that whatever they fixed in V1.4 could only happened with extremely poor reception which most certainly wasn't the case in the instances I mentioned above. Since I have a Cortex pro in one of my I own jets I REALLY want it to work but before I fly this thing again I would like an explanation that seems to explain all the situations that have been experienced / reported and the explanations I've heard so far simply don't explain the problems I mentioned above.

Last edited by wfield0455; 10-11-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:37 PM
  #380
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I can only pass on what I have been told by Bavarian Demon. Hopefully they won't mind me posting extracts from the email I received as they can explain what they have found much better than I can:

Quote:
The problem we found is that if the CB return from itís own failsafe, the first data package can result in a quick servo jump for all not stabilized channels run through the Pro. In detail, the channels jump to a center signal for a split second, and then back to where they should be according to the Txís signal. As this only affects the first 1-2 packages, you can imagine how short this ďissueĒ is. And it only becomes a real issue if something like a turbineís failsafe or off position is programmed somewhere near a center signal, which is very unusual. This is why, until now, no one realized this issue. It is very, very rare, and only coming up, if someone lost both receivers already, and luckily getting at least one back, so CB returning from a failsafe condition. Noone should fly in such a condition anyway
Quote:
A freezing unit, was never reproduced by ourselves, under no circumstances. If all cabeling and power supply is done as per the manualís request, especially the additional power cable cause of the low current the CBís Rx ports can handle, nothing will happen at all. There is nothing in the CORTEXpro that would ever make the unit freeze, except for loss of power, which would also affect the receivers, and mostly does.
If you have reproduced other problems on the bench, have you passed this information to Bavarian Demon? They have not been able to reproduce anything similar to what you report and I am sure would be keen to know more about your exact setup and actions at the time. Can you be certain that these are problems with the Cortex and not with Jeti? Is your Tx up to the latest Jeti Firmware 4.24?
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:54 PM
  #381
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I don’t believe it will be fix until they say that we no longer need to bypass the cortex with the secondary RX with the Jeti CB’s......to me that mean the software is not working correctly with Jeti. It doesn’t stop me from owning a few of these....until something better come along.
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Old 10-11-2017, 01:02 PM
  #382
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Bavarian Demon is not saying that you need to bypass the Cortex PRO.
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Old 10-11-2017, 01:31 PM
  #383
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Slick33.....Jeti is.

Dansy.....Bingo!

Mine will remain on bench until mystery is solved.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:05 PM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp777fo View Post
Slick33.....Jeti is.
Esprit Model/Jeti USA might be. I have heard nothing from Jeti in the Czech Republic and I would be surprised if they would recommend anything to do with third party products.

Has Esprit actually found anything or are they just being ultra cautious? As far as Bavarian Demon are concerned nothing has been found at all to warrant bypassing the Cortex PRO so if Esprit know something that they don't it would be great if they could share it to clear up some of the confusion.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:32 PM
  #385
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FW 1.4 fixed an issue where the Cortex Pro (CP) could lock up. The factory was only able to reproduce this issue by operating the system at very low Q. Could it have happened at high Q? Yes, but we could not reproduce this. None the less we are confident this issue is taken care of with FW 1.4.

Separate from the above described issue we were made aware or serveral turbine shuts downs. At first we thought this was a result of the first issue and the shut downs were due to the Central Box (CB) momentarily going into failsafe. This proved incorrect because the shut down issue continued, even when the CB failsafe was set to keep the engine running. Further investigation revealed what was really happening and this will be corrected in FW 1.5 which should be released soon.

Can the shut shut downs happen when RX2 is connected directly to the CB? Yes, it can and has happened. The reason for this is due to how the CB operates. Data on RX1 is used exclusively until it is lost completely. Only then does the CB switch to RX2. The CP processes the data from the two receivers in a similar way. RX1 is used until data is lost, then RX2 is used. It is during this switch over that the issue can occurr. If the Q is very low and the data barely there the CP will drive the non stabilized outputs to the values learned during the teach in process. Bypassing the CP by connecting RX2 direct to the CB does not help here since the CB will still use the input on RX1 from CP.

What to do? For now, until FW 1.5 is available we suggest reteaching the system with the throttle set to a running position. We have tested this on a jet that had more dead stick landings than normal ones. After reteaching with the throttle in a running position we have had over two dozen flights without a shut down.

Should you bypass the CP with RX2? That is still an option if you wish. My own personal airplanes have both RX running trough the CP.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:40 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp777fo View Post
Slick33.....Jeti is.

Dansy.....Bingo!

Mine will remain on bench until mystery is solved.
No. This was a solution proposed by some customers. When asked if it was ok we have said it could be used as an option. Jeti and bavarianDEMON have not said this is needed or required.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:46 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dansy View Post
I think �� at least I interpreted what they said by doing the following, when teaching my Cortex with CB100/200/400 to connect only the servos that uses the gyro....

So what I did is disconnect the turbine, flaps, retracts ect......do the learn...then reconnect all the stuff....I will pause my flying until this is clear, Iím starting to having doubt in this cortex thing...
no need to do this. Just teach the Cortex Pro with the throttle in a running position. Easy and takes only a couple minutes. I've done this at the field.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:48 PM
  #388
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FYI,
Joachim and I will be at the Best in the West Jet Rally in Buttonwillow, CA. Please come by if you are there and we would be more than happy to discuss all of this.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:11 PM
  #389
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Not attending that event.....you have to agree that there has been more problems then normal with the combination of the Cortex and CB products...at least on forums, which doesn’t really inspire confidence in the system. My Jeti equipment has been really solid so I have no reason to believe it’s because of that.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:40 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dansy View Post
Not attending that event.....you have to agree that there has been more problems then normal with the combination of the Cortex and CB products...at least on forums, which doesn’t really inspire confidence in the system. My Jeti equipment has been really solid so I have no reason to believe it’s because of that.
It's a complex interface and even though we have worked directly with Jeti since the beginning there have been some challenges. We test extensively before release but the reality of product design is that you really don't know all that will happen until your product is out in the field. Anyone who tells you differently has not worked in product development. The important thing is we listen to our customers, we go back and test using what we learn from their input, and we fix the issue. This is what we have done and will always do.

Last edited by F1 Rocket; 10-11-2017 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:51 PM
  #391
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To be clear then, is the current advice to run both Rx through the CortexPro and go through the teaching setup process with the throttle set at idle? If I have understood correctly it sounds like there is zero benefit in having the primary Rx going through the CortexPro and the secondary through the Jeti CB. Also, is there any estimate on the timescale for 1.5 to be released? Are we talking days, weeks or months?

Last edited by Andrew Bailey; 10-11-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:23 PM
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Bailey View Post
To be clear then, is the current advice to run both Rx through the CortexPro and go through the teaching setup process with the throttle set at idle? If I have understood correctly it sounds like there is zero benefit in having the primary Rx going through the CortexPro and the secondary through the Jeti CB. Also, is there any estimate on the timescale for 1.5 to be released? Are we talking days, weeks or months?
Dual serial is the recommended interface. FW 1.5 is expected next week.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:06 PM
  #393
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I've just aquired a CP. If there is any doubt, can't we still just connect the CP after the CB using the old loom connections? What is the downside or will the problem still be present?
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:07 PM
  #394
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Cool gadget!!!
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:31 AM
  #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by causeitflies View Post
I've just aquired a CP. If there is any doubt, can't we still just connect the CP after the CB using the old loom connections? What is the downside or will the problem still be present?
Yes, you can always use the cable loom. The issue discussed above is only present when using a serial interface. The only downside is you will not be able to take advantage of connecting to a serial bus or in the case of Jeti users connecting to a Central Box and/or using the Jeti Device Explorer integration.
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