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How to set up fuel system for Nitro ducted fan

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How to set up fuel system for Nitro ducted fan

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Old 11-03-2016, 09:20 PM
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mikes68charger
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Default How to set up fuel system for Nitro ducted fan

I know this must sound crazy but I just got a really great deal on a Byron F15 that also came with the Byron Mig 15 that was crashed

I'm going Turbine with the Byron F15 but it had 2 nice looking Ross .90 ducted fans with OS carbs.

I figure why not put one of the Byron fans/pipes set up in the Mig for fun. I have never seen a Nitro ducted fan jet fly except on YouTube. The Mig had a .60 size glow motor so I figured the .90 would be a little more fun

well i pulled every thing out and cleaned it. I removed 1 pound of clear silicone !

Im getting ready to put the 2 11 oz saddle tanks in and realized there is no muffler nipple on the Byron pipe

how is do you pressurize the fuel system ?

i was thinking of adding a BVM UAT I had laying around as a header tank, as pulling from 2 saddle tanks sound bad.

The F15 had 2 really crazy alummun(switches/fills) it's got like 5 nipples on it. No clue.

Any help for this odd side side project will be great. Thanks
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:37 PM
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normally the pipe for DF is has a nipple on the widest part for pressurizing the tank. Was that way for K&B 48 and a BVM 91 I used to run. For a header tank, just a simple small header with clunk and that is all you need. We never used anything fancier. I never tried a bladder type UAT in a nitro setup.
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Old 11-04-2016, 03:43 AM
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Byron used a wild manifold ( the crazy switch, 5 nipple gizmo you spoke of ) valve/tank system designed to keep the fuel at a constant level with the carb... Worked ok in a perfect setup but it didn't take me long to go more conventional. Drill and tap your tune pipe in the large section of pipe, install pressure nipple and go with conventional wisdom from there. I also recommend a BVM inflight mixture valve as well. Makes life real simple. Good luck, have fun.!!

Danno

P.S... Do the header tank as well... 2 or 4oz. dubro works well...

Last edited by rcjetsaok; 11-04-2016 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 11-04-2016, 03:54 AM
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P.S.P.S.... To drill/tap the pipe, find the location you want the nipple to be. Take a punch and put a slight dimple / low spot on the pipe. Then wire brush the area and clean. Then use silver solder and create a puddle of solder wher you just dimpled the pipe and let cool. Now drill and tap through the solder and pipe for the nipple intallation. By adding the puddle of solder, you have created a thicker spot to drill and tap therefor getting more threads for the nipple to screw in to. The pipe wall is very thin and just drilling and screwing the nipple in that will not last...heat changes and such.

Cheers,

Danno
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:04 AM
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You may find these useful.
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:30 PM
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The other options is pitot pressure. Drill through the fan shroud and mount a pickup right behind the fan. I have one somewhere......
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Old 11-05-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by lrb75 View Post
The other options is pitot pressure. Drill through the fan shroud and mount a pickup right behind the fan. I have one somewhere......
I ran a Yellow F16 with an OS91/Ramtec Combo & a Tom Cook pipe, ran with impeller pressure nipple & never had an issue. Use a 1 or 2oz Sullivan tank as a hopper, works fine!
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:41 PM
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I finally used Perry oscillating pumps mounted on the rear of the engine. This always gave a constant pressure to the carb regardless of the fuel level-- mostly. Byron setups are, for me , very sensitive to fuel levels.
John
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:57 PM
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Mike,
Several good hints posted above. A former jet buddy flew some of the Byron stuff and we found that it was best to start the engine in an upright position. We used a 5 gallon bucket (inverted) with about a 4" thick foam pad taped to the bottom. The jet was placed in the pad inverted and the glow plug backed out about a turn to relieve compression. Once the motor fired and was running at idle the glow lead was removed and the plug tightened for run ups and setting the needle for high speed. The best, safest, setting was just below peak RPM and you would (carefully) pinch the fuel line for a quick jump to peak. He ran 5-10% nitro fuel with added oil, to about 22% oil content. The Rossi's didn't idle or transition well and large bore OS carbs worked better. Once the engine was set the model was flipped over for taxi and takeoff. The MiG sat close to the ground and would suck up every pebble and FOD on the runway. Also, the huge "cheater hole" on the bottom would literally suck the MiG to the runway hindering liftoff. The best technique to rotate was to quickly chop the throttle, to reduce the suction, lift off and add power once airborne. It was tricky but it usually worked if the engine didn't quit on the power up. This was a lot of "fun" back in the early days of jets and other Byron users made chime in here with their experiences also.
Good luck with this side project and let us know how it turns out.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
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Old 11-05-2016, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Art ARRO View Post
Mike,
Several good hints posted above. A former jet buddy flew some of the Byron stuff and we found that it was best to start the engine in an upright position. We used a 5 gallon bucket (inverted) with about a 4" thick foam pad taped to the bottom. The jet was placed in the pad inverted and the glow plug backed out about a turn to relieve compression. Once the motor fired and was running at idle the glow lead was removed and the plug tightened for run ups and setting the needle for high speed. The best, safest, setting was just below peak RPM and you would (carefully) pinch the fuel line for a quick jump to peak. He ran 5-10% nitro fuel with added oil, to about 22% oil content. The Rossi's didn't idle or transition well and large bore OS carbs worked better. Once the engine was set the model was flipped over for taxi and takeoff. The MiG sat close to the ground and would suck up every pebble and FOD on the runway. Also, the huge "cheater hole" on the bottom would literally suck the MiG to the runway hindering liftoff. The best technique to rotate was to quickly chop the throttle, to reduce the suction, lift off and add power once airborne. It was tricky but it usually worked if the engine didn't quit on the power up. This was a lot of "fun" back in the early days of jets and other Byron users made chime in here with their experiences also.
Good luck with this side project and let us know how it turns out.
Rgds,
Art ARRO


Wow. Thanks guys lot of new information to me.

We almost got it started but the drill keeps unscrewing the nut off the fan
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:21 PM
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Be prepared for a LOT of "fun". And by fun I totally mean major frustration. I personally wouldn't go back to that kind of "fun" again. Turbines have made our life so much more enjoyable. Put a K60 in that sucker and have some actual fun.
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Old 11-05-2016, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SECRET AGENT View Post
Be prepared for a LOT of "fun". And by fun I totally mean major frustration. I personally wouldn't go back to that kind of "fun" again. Turbines have made our life so much more enjoyable. Put a K60 in that sucker and have some actual fun.

It's already been frustrating. I didn't know I needed a special starting wand so I don't keep losing the nut on the motor

but it was cool waching 5 of the old guys remember back when they had a cool Byron and the proceeded to teach me a thing or two. They all really wanted to here it fly Nitro
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Old 11-05-2016, 05:26 PM
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Here is a diagram on how to plumb the 5 nipple manifolds. They were used to fuel the Byron constant level fuel tanks. I still have a Byron F16 and Mig 15 laying around. I keep telling myself to rehab the F 16. ducted fans are the new show stoppers at the jet meets. Back in the day you were a genius if you got one in the air.
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Old 11-05-2016, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jofunk View Post
Here is a diagram on how to plumb the 5 nipple manifolds. They were used to fuel the Byron constant level fuel tanks. I still have a Byron F16 and Mig 15 laying around. I keep telling myself to rehab the F 16. ducted fans are the new show stoppers at the jet meets. Back in the day you were a genius if you got one in the air.
Thanks. I didn't know there was a one way bearing in the wand. Makes since. Anyone with a 13mm Byron wand for sale?
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:56 PM
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Oh, and some info about the wand
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:15 PM
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We almost got it started but the drill keeps unscrewing the nut off the fan
install a second nut on the engine and use red Loctite.
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:21 PM
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Also stock up on McCoy MC-9 glow plugs, you're gonna go through a bunch if you get too lean. I always likes 5% nitro Ritch's Brew fuel too.

http://www.ritchsbrew.com/rb.html
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:53 PM
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Have to second the inflight needle will save on plugs and pistons.
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Old 11-07-2016, 03:45 AM
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Oh, and have plenty of paper towels to shove up the tailpipe befor putting it in your car. If you don't then all that nasty oil will drip out onto everything.

We having fun yet? HA!
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:42 AM
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Also have a few extra tuned pipe coupler o rings. They are not really o rings but a flattened silicone seal. They seemed to blow out every so often on me.......We used to crank the engine with the fuel off and then while cranking turn the manifold on or remove the hemostat on the carb line. It would help prevent things from locking up.
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