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F-8E crusader.

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Old 01-03-2017, 02:37 PM
  #51
sidgates
 
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Falcon & Olive,
I have sent the questions to Burt.
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:32 AM
  #52
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Olive,

Burts reply.
" I only flew the F-4 in the reserves. About the only thing I remember that was super critical was you had a major emergency if the BLC did shut off after flap retraction on T/O.

Burt"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falcon,
" Sent you the picture I found from Mary’s I-pad. Obviously not the same one. Burt"

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Old 01-04-2017, 08:12 AM
  #53
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Sid,

The "hard wing" versions of the F-4 had a susceptibility to depart with heavy aileron inputs during maneuvering. The rear seaters were known to lock their knees around the stick so it would only travel fore and aft, and then rudder was used for rolling inputs (swept wing airplanes roll with rudder at increased AOA, at low AOA a rudder input just produces yaw.

This was solved in the later models of the Phantom, known as "soft wing" variants. I think the E model was the first AF variant, I don't know where it started in the Navy/Marine side of the house. These are distinguishable by large LE slats that would pop out during maneuvering. I flew a soft wing F-4 once and found it difficult to hone the G you wanted, because right when you'd get to where you wanted the slats would pop out and slam an extra G on there and a heck of a lot of drag too. I'm sure a few flights and that would have been second nature, but for my 1.2 hrs it was distracting while trying to maneuver. In the pattern it really wasn't noticeable.

Also of note, the AF just retired the last of the QF-4s on Dec 21st. I took my dad, an old Phantom driver, down for the retirement. He had flown six of the 13 jets they still had on the ramp! The sad part is, post-retirment, they were going to take the motors out of the planes and tow them into the desert as bombing targets. The sadder part is that they're using QF-16s now! Attached is a pic that I took as I was walking away. It was kind of fitting..the sunset on the Phabulous Phantom. Note the left stab on the left plane. It was hit by an Aim-9 and they were able to recover the plane with a stupid-high landing speed (200+kts). It was obviously unmanned and they landed it on a dry lake and then towed it back to the base

Sorry to hijack it Oli, and I hope this helps!

Dave
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:15 AM
  #54
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Same plane in photo. It was second version built by same guy. Dave Hudson.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:26 AM
  #55
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yeap, that's #2
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:29 AM
  #56
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Oli,

will this one have a speed brake?

thanks

Dave
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:33 PM
  #57
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Yes Dave, it will have a speed brake. And some other scale options as well!

Woody
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:54 PM
  #58
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Awesome, thanks Woody!

Dave
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:20 PM
  #59
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It will have everything available as options.
Wing incidence, slats, speed brake, fueling probe, operating canopy, scale cockpit...
The limit will be the max takeoff weight to get something flyable.
I don't know yet what this will be but the airfoil has been optimized for heavier wing loads...
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:54 AM
  #60
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I flew phantoms in the USAF back when before the viper.. we had the C model for Recon work, RF-4C.. it was fast as hell, it was a slick wing, it was similar to the navy version except it would only deploy half flaps.. We had the D model, which was the Line phantom in Vietnam. It had no gun. Then along came the E model and G Model.

The E model was originally made with a slick wing like the D model, but then later the Leading edge slats were added to the design.. then retrofitted.. It had a huge nose and a 20MM gun.. It had J-79-13 engine.. smokers. The G model (wild weasel), was built from the E platform with a huge sensor package replacing the gun the APR-38/41.. it was very effective at detecting SAMs. It was an evolution of the F-100E/F wild weasel used in vietnam..

Later the engine was updated in the E model to -17( smokeless), and a new avionics package was added ARN-101.. It had a ring laser system added, and a Pave Tac Laser designator system.. towards the late 80's, MCD deployed the 600 gallon centerline tank off the F-15 to us, and that completely transformed our plane.. It was full up 7-8.5 G airplane again, and was a blast to fly.. it was a good bomber too with the pave tac system.

Some of the Guard units got the one piece windshield later towards the end.

I won't comment on the drone program.. but i did end up shooting one down later in my career that I had flown earlier.. it was a cool thing but sad too.

I went on to fly the viper, and flew almost every model A-D, J.. the only one I didn't get to fly was the Block 60 that UAE purchased..

I loved squadron life and flying the phantom..no doubt. But the Viper was a pilots airplane that you wrapped around you, and it was awesome..

goose.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:40 AM
  #61
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ok

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Old 01-06-2017, 04:25 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooseF22 View Post
I flew phantoms in the USAF back when before the viper..

I loved squadron life and flying the phantom..no doubt. But the Viper was a pilots airplane that you wrapped around you, and it was awesome..

goose.
Great report Goose. I had a choice between the Phantom and A-7 out of pilot training and decided to go single seat. Nevertheless, I always thought the "Double-Ugly" was one of the coolest jets ever. It was also my first sale jet and second turbine ever. Mine started as a twin ducted fan and later converted to a single twin. Retired and still sitting in my basement.

Craig

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Old 01-06-2017, 12:56 PM
  #63
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Wait did I miss something, are guys coming out with with an f-4 now to? I'm starting wonder if everyone in Asia shares the same molds. After you guys posted the crusader I have already seen other companies with one and SM has a new large f-4 now as well. Always been a fan of the F-4 done up in the camo scheme with tanks and bombs on it. So ugly it's sexy, kinda like what I fly
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:35 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooseF22 View Post
We had the D model, which was the Line phantom in Vietnam. It had no gun. Then along came the E model and G Model.
How did pilots feel about flying a jet with no gun? Doesn't seem right.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:03 PM
  #65
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Keith,

No, not an F-4 in this thread. Sid asked a question about the departure characteristics of one, which I answered in a long-winded response and then Goose filled in the missing first-hand account(s). Welcome back to HighSA!

Dave
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:57 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderBean View Post
After you guys posted the crusader I have already seen other companies with one
Who?
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:09 PM
  #67
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The only other Crusaders that I am aware of are the George Miller kit, itp/masterfly , Peter Nye , and not released the large one from Mr David Hudson http://www.dcmodelshop.com/ which is'probably not intended for production.
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Old 01-07-2017, 09:49 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderBean View Post
I'm starting wonder if everyone in Asia shares the same molds.
If you want to have the molds of the Crusader shared in China, you're gonna have to kill me first !
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:08 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olnico View Post
If you want to have the molds of the Crusader shared in China, you're gonna have to kill me first !
Oli,

I doubt even the best 'reverse-engineered' Chinese copy of your Crusader wouldn't be able to touch the engineering and manufacture quality going into this plane.
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:07 PM
  #70
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Another interesting comment by Burt C. I think might apply to flying the model too.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Remembered some more interesting F-8 things. The F-8 was contrary to everything you had ever been taught about controlling sink rate with power and speed with pitch on approach. Because of the positive wing incidence and the fuselage sitting pretty much level the thrust vector didn’t provide lift. So if you just applied power to stop sink rate without a corresponding nose adjustment you just got faster while still sinking. So staying on glide slope required both adjustments at once. And dirtying up in the soup was uncomfortable, especially when new in the plane, because as you slowed and raised the wing the wing angle of attack stayed the same and you experienced a downward feeling in the very forward cockpit as it moved away from the wing. This was cause for some of the quirks getting the F-8 aboard ship but, in spite of it’s quirks, it was still a fun airplane to fly.

The F-4 was stable as the proverbial rock on approach and you could use just one engine for small corrections because of the center line thrust.

Burt"
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:23 PM
  #71
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This is going to be a show stopper!

TB
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:59 AM
  #72
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The airplane internal.

The internals are either made from aircraft grade Finnish birch plywood or airex/ carbon fiber. We use the absolute best plywood available on the market, directly ordered from Finland with certificate of conformity to aero standards.

The center wing section receives 4 mm 8 ply birch plywood elements that have been calculated to bear 10 g with 50% margin to break. the wing tubes get a carbon fiber reinforcement at the center junction, not showing here. The large horizontal plate is for the wing incidence attachment points.



The nose section comes with the inlet duct pre-glued in the mold. Its complex shape does not allow for insertion once the mold is closed. The highest quality plywood available on the planet is used fro this plane. A large area is available for a scale cockpit!



A super high quality Behotec C-50F nose retract is used. 6 mm aero grade Finnish birch 12 ply plywood is used for the gear mount. Direct servo steering will be available.




The outer wing panel internals are made from 3 mm carbon fiber laminated airex. Two standard size servo are used. One for the slats, one for the flats. Both are live hinged. Two large carbon fiber/ airex spars spread the wing tubes efforts all the way to the wing tip ( front one ). The wing is incredibly stiff and strong but still quite light with its 2 mm airex/ 30+30 oz glass laminate.



A closer look at the position of the slats and flaps actuation servos and of the wing tubes related to the spars. The wings are also designed for 10 g efforts. The flap servo template is in position below, showing the placing on the wing. The rear flap block is mis-placed.


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Old 03-24-2017, 04:32 AM
  #73
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Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Thanks for Sharing Oli - I appreciate the engineering and effort going into this thing. Full-on aerospace grade modelling.

Mind if I ask what resin you're using? I see vacuum bagging indications, but can't tell if you're utilizing VARTM techniques. I'm shopping decent, water-thin resins to play with using vacuum transfer. Not a specific project as much as playing around in the garage.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:06 AM
  #74
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It is a variant of the resin used at Airbus.
This one allows me to fuse the parts at the closing process.

Let me explain how this works.

The shells are vacuum infused up to 50% of the polymerization cycle.
The cycle is then stopped by cooling down the molds.
The bags, draining membranes and peelply are removed, then the internals are glued on with the same resin.
The molds are closed and post cured again to achieve 100% polymerisation.

This specific resin is designed to force exo strucutral chemical bonds in the second 50% phase of the polymerisation.
This enables us to fuse the internals with the shells and create a semi-monocoque structure.

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Old 03-24-2017, 04:22 PM
  #75
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Yikes! That's fairly spectacular. And well thought out. And here I was debating about playing with vinyl-Esther resins or epoxy and you're off into the next level of controlled polymerization molding...

I'll sit back down now...
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