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Anyone have a Turbine ME-163 on this site? I got some questions

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Old 02-16-2017, 08:15 AM
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mikes68charger
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Default Anyone have a Turbine ME-163 on this site? I got some questions

Hey Well I finely made it happened I got a Joe 105in ME163 it was Nitro powered when I picked it up, And have started the turbine conversion process.

What I have done so far:

Filled in all the massive holes in the nose cowl due to the huge 2500 super tiger, pulse I had to build a fiberglass nose to continue the shape due to no spinner, then added a little brushless motor that I gutted to provide a bearing shaft for the little spinner to free spin. I added bondo to the spinner and made the shape more scale vs the current pics.

Added small servo for tail wheel steering, cut fuse and ordered a custom 32in turbine pipe for the huge AMT 450 turbine (45 pounder)

Due to the fact I wanted the motor close to the CG along with the fuel tanks, I had to make my own center former to support the big 1 3/4in wing tubes, what do you think of my design? I wanted to make sure it was as strong at a 105 in and the power I got I know there will be some strong forces, the ply I used is a little under 3/4in wide.


Im able to get 170oz of fuel with 3 tanks right in front of the CG, with 48 oz of smoke fluid.

I put a screen in the front part of the nose for air in vs the 2 wholes on the side, pulse I plane on opening up the windows behind the copit, I think this should be good for air flow.

My questions is really the wing.

I was told the by the owner who said he only flew it 3 times that the inside controls are flaps????

I know this is not a true delta but a tailess wing, but how do flaps work on this type of set up? I googled the real one and it has split flaps under the wing on the CG line. I know the Sunshine models have this, do you use use it?

He also told me he had a hard time getting it off the ground, and I found a picture of a turbine model using all 4 control surfaces as elevens (vs just the out side ones) which makes more since to me, as my Carf Eurosport as elevons the hole width of the wing.

So how do you work your wing controls?

any pics of the bottom side of your wing with the split flaps? my wings are foam and balsa covered, Im trying to get all mods done so I can glass them, I already started modding the inside controls to move up and down like the out side controls but I have concerns

The picture of the attached red one is the only picture I can find of someone using all 4 controls surfaces, even watched several youtube videos, but I have a short field so Im concerned.

any information would be great!

Thanks
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:20 AM
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Also the guy who owned it put a 4 1/2 in dubro tire on the skid to help with landing shock, then added a servo that puts a peace of wood on the wheel as a brake, very odd, was thinking of ripping it all out and making it smooth, but its a decent ideal I guess for not so scale look.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:15 AM
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Just remember that AMA requires brakes on turbine models.

Good luck, looks like an interesting project.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECRET AGENT View Post
Just remember that AMA requires brakes on turbine models.

Good luck, looks like an interesting project.
True but when was the last time you saw brakes on a turbine glider?
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:06 AM
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No, the AMA requires the plane to come to a controlled stop on a hard surface on command. Not necessarily "brakes"... It also provides for carriage-less designs, but they have to be hand launched and under 7.5 pounds.

What about a separate launch dolly that has brakes built-in? That way, the brakes operate with the model in the phase you actually need them. Not sure if it's legit from the AMA point of view when you land, but it's worth an inquiry. It fits the intent of the paragraph, to control the plane and it's residual thrust while taxiing. This and gliders don't do a whole lot of taxiing when they land and come to a pretty positive/controlled stop, if not specifically on demand. The safety factor is there.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckC View Post
No, the AMA requires the plane to come to a controlled stop on a hard surface on command. Not necessarily "brakes"... It also provides for carriage-less designs, but they have to be hand launched and under 7.5 pounds.

What about a separate launch dolly that has brakes built-in? That way, the brakes operate with the model in the phase you actually need them. Not sure if it's legit from the AMA point of view when you land, but it's worth an inquiry. It fits the intent of the paragraph, to control the plane and it's residual thrust while taxiing. This and gliders don't do a whole lot of taxiing when they land and come to a pretty positive/controlled stop, if not specifically on demand. The safety factor is there.
I have wondered about this and have discussed this a few times with some different college design projects. I would think a belly landing would be allowed. It the throttle and elevator are the brakes. When you set the plane down you are activating the brakes. Otherwise if we have a gear problem and doesn't come down we would have to keep flying as it would be against AMA rules to land.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:02 PM
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It would be very easy to adapt an electric brake arrangement to a belly wheel
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:11 PM
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Well since this came up Ill just leave it the way it is, if you look it uses the bolt that the cart uses for support as a axle for a dubro wheel, then if you look at the picture with the turbine, you can see a servo that is connected to a door with sandpaper on one side, and when the servo is activated it pushes against the center wheel as a brake.

But anyone know about the best way to use the wings?
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:00 PM
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Just get a hold of Joe Saitta, he will probably share the info--I remember seeing one of his fly and he let the skid drop after takeoff and it didn't have any brakes that I recall
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:05 PM
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I have one of Joe Saitta's 82" ME-163's. He built it as a turbine model and I bought it from him used. I did make a few modifications and they all worked out well. It's a great flying plane and always gets a lot of attention whenever I bring it to the field.

I have a couple of comments on what you wrote above.
First a 45# engine is way too much for that airframe, plus the residual (idle) thrust will make it difficult to land. Remember it's a glider. I have a Wren 54 (14#) engine in mine and Joe flies his 105" one on a P120 (27#).
Also it looks like you have the engine too far back, and consequently will need a lot of nose weight.
You don't have a big enough air inlet. Mine and Joe's have the nose open plus an opening below it. Any air coming in the open windows would have a torturous path to the engine inlet, but it may work.
Mine has just two control surfaces on each wing, which act as elevons. On the 105" one Joe uses two surfaces on each wing. You may want to ask him how he has them set up. I would recommend using the outboard ones as elevons and the inboard ones as elevators. The full sized ME-163 used the inboard ones for elevator trim and flew with just the outboard elevons.
The later ME-163B added speed brakes to the underside of the wings to help slow it down for landing. They were mounted on the CG and are not flaps.
I would get rid of the wheel you described. As long as it will stay in place at idle you don't need brakes. I added a metal strip on the bottom to protect the fiberglass. You always want to land on the grass.
One flaw with Joe's design is that there is no airflow across the pipe to keep it cool. My inlets are larger than yours and any excess air that's not consumed by the engine would blow out the windows, which are behind my engine.
I opened up the area around the pipe exit and added cooling slots near the rear. I also closed off the windows to force the air out the back.

Here's a couple pictures of mine. Also if you search for "ME-163 turbine" you'll find my flight video and a couple of Joe Saitta's.

Joe
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:46 PM
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Thanks for the info. I think the 45 pound motor will be ok.

http://www.sunshine-modellbau.de/sun...50-mm-voll-gfk

as its the same size as this sunshine model with a motor option of 120-200N. 30-45 pounds

Worried about slowing it Down. So do you have a air brake on your? Any pic
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:48 PM
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And to confirm you are useing all 4 controls on both wings as elevons
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:24 PM
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The reason Sunshine's model is so heavy is that it's built like a tank and because the engine is so far back it needs a 3 kg. (that's 6.6 pounds) lead weight in the nose to balance it. Saitta's model is quite flimsy in comparison. I'm afraid that you'll rip the wings off if you open it up or do a high G maneuver unless you strengthen them considerably.

I thought about adding air brakes but have gotten pretty good at killing the engine on approach and dead sticking it in.

I mis-spoke above. There is only one control surface on each of my wings.

Good luck.
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