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Pulsing smoke

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Old 06-19-2017, 02:50 AM
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Question Pulsing smoke

Last October at Best-in-the-West I loved watching the two guys flying the large SM Vipers in formation. One of the nice routines they had was to use a synchronised pulsing smoke action. Can anyone tell me how they do that and what equipment is required for that.

Cheers,

Jan
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:53 AM
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The pulsing smoke is done using the transmitter's sequencer function. The two guys are Horizon pilots and the last I saw they were using DX-18 transmitters. The "lead" plane has a regular setup bound to the transmitter. The second plane has a second receiver, bound to the "lead" plane's transmitter. The second receiver is used only for smoke.

It's a great idea and looks fabulous in the air.

Regards,

Jim
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:40 AM
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Anyone have a video ? Oups here it is :
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:38 AM
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Anyone know how to setup up the dx-18 to do that? Would make my smoke last longer for sure
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:18 PM
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Or you could connect a 555 timer to your smoke pump.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertlakesflying View Post
Anyone know how to setup up the dx-18 to do that? Would make my smoke last longer for sure
Since you have a DX-18, you should have a manual for it. Check out page 26 of the manual for how to program a sequencer where there is a step-by-step procedure and one of the FIVE available preprogrammed sequences may be what you need.

If not, here are some basics...
For sequencer S1, use a two position switch to turn on the sequencer, select repeat so it repeats over and over.
Create S1A sequence such as t=0 smoke= 100%, t=2 smoke = -125%, t=4 smoke = 100% (or some similar square wave function using step points and adjust the timing as you desire)

Regards,

Jim
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basimpsn View Post
Or you could connect a 555 timer to your smoke pump.
What is a 555 timer?
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
The pulsing smoke is done using the transmitter's sequencer function. The two guys are Horizon pilots and the last I saw they were using DX-18 transmitters. The "lead" plane has a regular setup bound to the transmitter. The second plane has a second receiver, bound to the "lead" plane's transmitter. The second receiver is used only for smoke.

It's a great idea and looks fabulous in the air.

Regards,

Jim
Thank you Jim - it really is a nice touch - will have to take a close look at my 18MZ to see if it is possible.

Cheers,

Jan
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbok Flyer View Post
What is a 555 timer?
OMG, I can understand wanting to be spoon-fed a sequencer program rather than putting in a bit of work by reading the manual, and maybe learning something useful, but have things gotten so bad that you can't do a simple Google search?
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:35 PM
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What's a "Google search", HA!
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
OMG, I can understand wanting to be spoon-fed a sequencer program rather than putting in a bit of work by reading the manual, and maybe learning something useful, but have things gotten so bad that you can't do a simple Google search?
??? I can assure you it was an honest question, but if this is the attitude I will get, then I will also just stay away from RCU.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:19 PM
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And we wonder why the hobby is not growing and RCU is mostly dead.....
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbok Flyer View Post
What is a 555 timer?
It's a real simple circuit to make...here is a youtube video how to make one...or a ready made unit from ebay ;-)
Basic Flasher Circuit Board To Flashing Rail/Road Crossing eBay

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Old 06-20-2017, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbok Flyer View Post
??? I can assure you it was an honest question, but if this is the attitude I will get, then I will also just stay away from RCU.
Eh, it's not really an RCU problem, just a douchebag problem. Keep asking questions.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
OMG, I can understand wanting to be spoon-fed a sequencer program rather than putting in a bit of work by reading the manual, and maybe learning something useful, but have things gotten so bad that you can't do a simple Google search?
Jim:
Springbok Flyer ( Jan ) is one of the finest and more respected guys in this hobby. He, for sure, has a lot miles under his belt. He represented South Africa at the 1997 Jet World Masters in England, btw.
Your answer to him was rude, insulting and cheap.
I suggest that you send him an apology.

Don't forget that you represent JPO ... . I am telling you this as your friend !!


Jack
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:23 AM
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Thanks for the input Jack.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:27 AM
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Hey Guys, Ken McSpadden here, one of the Viperjet flyers in the video.

I was able to program the DX18 sequencer to do the pulsed smoke with the help of Andy Kunz who writes the airware for Spektrum radios. It wasn't difficult, but it also wasn't something I could come up with on my own without his help. In fact, I'll have to look again at the radio when I get home to remember exactly how we did it! The basics are that the sequencer was setup so that when it was finished traveling from the beginning of the sequence to the end, it would reverse itself and travel back to the beginning, where it would reverse itself again and travel to the end.... creating a continuous back and forth seguence. Setting the values and speed of the sequence was pretty straight forward. To switch the smoke on and off, I created a couple of mixes. One mix would turn the smoke on constantly and was just a smoke pump channel to a set value... and the other mix would mix the smoke pump channel onto the constantly running sequence. I used a 3 position switch so position 0 would be smoke off, position 1 is constant smoke, and position 2 is pulsed smoke.

I'll go look at the radio later and try to give you some more specifics, but this might give you a few clues to get started on your own.

Thanks,
KennyMac
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:34 AM
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Jan,
Glad you enjoyed our flying! Mike Adams and I are still at it!... We finished 1st at the inaugural Red Flag competition in the Team Freestyle category, and are still dreaming up new maneuvers. The video linked above was just us doing some passes, which is mainly because we were flying during the open flying times with other jets in the air... We try not to disrupt the pattern too much and remain predictable to avoid conflict with the other pilots.
Hope to see you soon!

KennyMac
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:43 AM
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Kenny, do you have a link to a better video ?
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:57 AM
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Robin....
Here's an interesting video that shows us practicing out at Buttonwillow when we were preparing for Red Flag. It's even got some air to air footage from a drone. Quite a different perspective to see our routine from up above!


And here's one from Castle in 2015

There's others out there too if you look around on Youtube.

KMc
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:17 AM
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A 555 timer can pulse the smoke pump onboard but the synchronization of multiple planes requires the pulsing come from the TX.

I used to use 555 all of the time. many moons ago ;-(
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_matt View Post
A 555 timer can pulse the smoke pump onboard but the synchronization of multiple planes requires the pulsing come from the TX.

I used to use 555 all of the time. many moons ago ;-(
I know man ...but I didn't want to tell him about arduino stuff lol
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:42 PM
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Hi guys,

Thank you for the constructive input to my question. Unfortunately I am not 'electronics' orientated and for that exact reason I have to read my manuals. The 18MZ is not very clear on having the kind of sequencer as described by most of you using other radio's. So I guess I'm left with the 555 timer (after doing a Google search as so eloquently suggested) and being educated into it's mystical powers.

Please bear with me a little longer: the 555 timer has 8 pins. If I read the 'astable' instruction, which produces a square wave at regular intervals - my (basic) logic is that if I connect the negative (common) lead from the smoke pump battery to pin #1 continuing on to the smoke pump. Then connect the positive lead (with 7.4volt in my case) to pin #8 and then from pin #3 continue the positive lead to the smoke pump - that I should get a high/low power flowing, which will alternate as long as the smoke system is switched on, hopefully producing the smoke pulsing sequence. So do I still need to build the circuit as displayed in the video provided earlier in this thread?

Cheers,

Jan
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Old 06-21-2017, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springbok Flyer View Post
Hi guys,

Thank you for the constructive input to my question. Unfortunately I am not 'electronics' orientated and for that exact reason I have to read my manuals. The 18MZ is not very clear on having the kind of sequencer as described by most of you using other radio's. So I guess I'm left with the 555 timer (after doing a Google search as so eloquently suggested) and being educated into it's mystical powers.

Please bear with me a little longer: the 555 timer has 8 pins. If I read the 'astable' instruction, which produces a square wave at regular intervals - my (basic) logic is that if I connect the negative (common) lead from the smoke pump battery to pin #1 continuing on to the smoke pump. Then connect the positive lead (with 7.4volt in my case) to pin #8 and then from pin #3 continue the positive lead to the smoke pump - that I should get a high/low power flowing, which will alternate as long as the smoke system is switched on, hopefully producing the smoke pulsing sequence. So do I still need to build the circuit as displayed in the video provided earlier in this thread?

Cheers,

Jan
The 555 timer circuit would have to go inside the pump (between the pump motor itself and the circuit driving the pump...what brand smoke pump do you have?

P.S another cheaper and easier way is to use a relay and a capacitor.

Last edited by basimpsn; 06-21-2017 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 06-21-2017, 03:56 AM
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I normally use a Powerbox smoke pump.

Jan
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