Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Obviously that title should be jet tronics - thanks autocorrect - and I can't edit the title.

I hope this is relatively simple. I've got three of the jet tronics jd valves driving gear and two sets of doors, with all sequencing being driven through a xicoy sequencer. I believe I have my steps correct in the sequencer programming but when I activate the gear up switch and the corresponding steps are passed from the sequencer, the valves just sort of shut off. That is, with the gear down the red LEDs are lit on each valve...as each valve should be signaling for gear up and doors closed, the LEDs turn off and the valves just vent to atmosphere instead of actuating the other circuit and illuminating the green LEDs and the gear never swings and the doors never close. Does that make sense?

I've tried resetting the valves though I'm not sure of any real indication to prove they are reset to default. I think maybe the issues I'm having have something to do with the switching point for each valve, but not entirely sure how I should be setting that when using a sequencer.

lookilook

Hi,
I may not be much of a help or confuse you more as Gaspar would be the ideal person to explain but I overheard parts of a conversation at jetpower similar to your case. This guy also used jetronic valves and had similar problem but when used the xicoy valves all was normal. If I am not mistaken I heard that the xicoy valves are 3 way switching and jetronic valves 2 way? There is a solution but sorry I did not pay attention to the rest of conversation.

AEROSHELDON

My Feedback: (99)

You can edit the title.

Go to "edit" and the click "go advanced" and then just edit the title.... then submit.

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

@Auburn

Did you teach the end points as per the JetTronics manual? The problem might be that the Xicoy gear sequencer reduces the travel just enough for the valves not to recognize the gear up or gear down position.

- Go to the "Servo position" menu of the sequencer and make sure that the "closed position" is at 1100us, the "open position" should be at 1900us
- Reset the JetTronic valves as per the manual
- Relearn the end points as per the JetTronics manual

I also use the exact same sequencer in combination with JetTronics valves and did not have a problem to get it to work. If my suggestion doesn't help, I suggest you contact Gaspar at [email protected] and ask him fir help.

Thomas

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Did that but it only updated the title inside the first post, not the viewable one from the forum list. But thanks.

I think this might be the problem. I'm just not really grasping how to set the end points on the door valves since they're not being driven directly by the transmitter switch, but I guess if I have the sequencer set up correctly (i.e. output 2 open on gear down, closed on gear up switch) then I just swing the gear switch and wait for the sequencer to set those outputs open or closed to set the respective end point, does that sound about right? So if starting from scratch the order of operations would be program sequencer steps, then program end points of all three valves after full up sequence and full down sequence, etc?

As far as "servo position" in the sequencer, I don't think mine is at those exact values, but rather I just allowed it to learn whatever input it was getting from the transmitter when I flipped the gear switch...maybe it's close to those, but I don't have it in front of me.

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Well I feel like I'm getting close. I now seem to have all the valves actuatingnin the correct direction. But now I'm at an issue where the gear down sequence is opening one set of doors, and then it opens the other set of doors and lowers the gear at the same moment instead of opening the doors and then the gear. On the gear up sequence it works perfect, and the steps are only programmed once so it's not like the steps should be the problem. In fact, on the display when I give the gear down symbol the steps show the expected response, but the valves don't match what t shows. Mind boggling.

Hopefully this video explains it and someone will have the solution.

Wclays

My Feedback: (85)

I don't know if this will help but this how I solved my issues.

I have one valve running the gear on G1, One valve running the doors on G2.

I used servos to test this first then I attached the valves.

Then when I used air I just put the lines on the barbs that made the action happen.

I did not try reversing the valves, it seemed they got confused sometimes.






If you look at the chart.

You have gear down and gear up at the top and bottom of the chart.

Gear down is where I started.

G1 open gear down
G2 Open Door open

Step 1
G1 open gear down
G2 Open Door open

Step 2
G1 open gear down
G2 Open Door open

Step 3
G1 open gear up
G2 Open Door open

Gear up

G1 Closed
G2 Closed

That should complete the cycle.
I hope I explained this correctly.

Clay

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Clay for that. Looking at your steps it makes perfect sense, but even going back through my setup my programming looks to make perfect sense too, but doesn't work as intended.

Here's another video using servos instead of valves to illustrate what's happening on the gear down sequence. When moving to the gear up position everything works like I want. I've also emailed these videos and a breakdown of my sequence steps to Gaspar so hopefully we'll get it sorted out quickly.

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

We have found that output 1 ( Gear ) will activate instantly on gear down command regardless of delay you have set in step 3. Therefore we have moved the gear to output 4 and programmed it the way you want and you can set a delay in step 3 for the gear down command to allow the doors to open and clear before the gear come down... If you are starting a set up from scratch, I put gear in output 2, doors in output 3 and 4... Here is a cheat sheet I created to put it on paper so it make sense while setting it up and a good reference. It's hard ( for me anyway ) to visulize it all from the data terminal... It gets confusing.... hope it helps...

Dan

Sorry the pic is 90 degrees.... Print it and your good...

P.S. Also make SURE that the GEAR DOWN and door positions for power-up on the tarmac are that the hoses on the Jetronics valves are on the output nipple that is away from the air input nipple. (Top left nipple looking at the valve with the air input on the right side ) And learn the valve this way. The valve can be learned either way, BUT we have found ( after many hours ) that the valve has a default/go-to action on power-up if there is a delay in signal from the radio.
In other words, on power-up the receiver sends power and signal to the sequencer but for what ever reason the sequencer delays signal but not power to the valves. As a result the valves default to air out to the top left nipple first, therfore collapsing the gear on the ground at power-up if plumbed wrong regardless of how you have learned the valves and working fine in normal conditions. Chances are Jetronics does not even realize this anomaly exist because it would not ever happen with their valves plugged straight to a receive which sends power and signal at once... Mixing two different product from two different manufactures, they would have no way of knowing ( or would want to know ) this problem exist... I hope this helps, It kicked our ass for many hours over several weekends before we connected all the dots... Works awesome once you get it all figured out !!... Good luck.

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Hey that's a good idea Dan - though with mine the gear is not activating instantly, it does wait for the first set of doors to open but not the second - but I will try moving gear to output 4 and setting it up that way. Thanks for the tip!

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

Added P.S.....

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

OF COURSE, mine are all backwards of that! Dang it! Haha - I actually plumbed mine intentionally to mimic a real airplane based on the lighted indicators on the valve - green is down and locked, red is gear up. Looks like I'll have to do some plumbing changes.

But thank you for the heads up.

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

Try it the way you have it... Have the plane on a stand and gear down. Shut it all down and then power it all back up like you were going to fly and see what it does.... Let me know... What radio system are you useing ??


Dan

Auburn02

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Futaba 18MZ w/power box royal Srs.

When i I set up output 4 identical to output 1 and moved the landing gear to port 4, all works as it should. Will test the full power up and default valve positions next when I get back in town next week. Thanks for the help.

Auburn02

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I finally got to a point where I can test this and what you described is happening exactly. With the plane on the bench and everything down (and all doors open), power on the tx, then rx and instantly the gear and doors close simultaneously tangled with each other in a clobbered mess. Useless. So I’ll go to the effort of swapping all the airlines on the valves but quite honestly, I don’t want the gear springing down if I have the plane on the shelf in the trailer and just want to power up to test something else either. Is there any good solution for the valves to wait for the tx signal before they react, or at the very least do nothing until they receive a positive signal? This is how my Xicoy dual valve works in another airplane.

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

Your problem can be caused by either the Powerbox Royal or by the JetTronics valves and unfortunatley there is no hidden or magic setting that tells the valves to wait for a valid signal. Please try the following:

Switch on the PLANE first and then the radio, does this problem only occur then? Meaning that the gear should NOT move when you switch on the radio first and then the RX. In this case the problem is caused by the JetTronics valves and swapping the air lines will help. Make sure that the gear and doors DOWN are connected to the top left fitting.

Should it not matter at all if you switch on the TX first or the RX and your gear always does the OPPOSITE of what your gear switch tells ot to do and cycling the gear once is needed to get everything back in sync, then the problem is caused by the Royal. In this case it needs to be sent in for a hardware update (ask me how I know).

Thomas

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

I’ll try that out and see what it does, thanks. As for the issue with the Royal, is that related to the internal sequencer? I should clarify I’m not using that function, the Royal only passes the gear signal via a single wire to a Xicoy sequencer which I then use for door sequencing, air telemetry and failsafe.

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

I thought that because this thread is about the Xicoy sequencer. But anyway it might not matter at all if you are using the built-in sequencer or an external one, the problem could still occur. I had a long chat with Richard @ PB Systems about this problem and he explained to me that the Royal needs to be sent in to them for the internal signal processor to be updated. But please check first if your Royal shows the same symptoms as mine. Whenever I switched on the radio in the gear down position, it would retract the gear first and vice versa. Once you cycled the gear once everything was back to normal.

Thomas

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

When I tested tonight, with the gear in the down position and the switch set to down if I power on the transmitter and then the rx, the gear retracts. I have to move the switch to the up position and back down to get the gear to swing back down.

Second test, with the gear down and the switch in the down position again I turned on the rx first. No movement by the gear or any servo in the plane. Turned on the transmitter next, and the gear retracts. One more I had to move the gear switch up and then down to have them come down.

I'lll swap air air lines tomorrow and test some more.

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

This does sound like the same PB Royal problem that I had also and NOT the valves. Please try to turn on the radio with the gear switch in the UP position. Most likely your gear will extend. If so, please check what signal controller version you have in your Royal. When you power up the device you will see the software version (first number) and the signal controller version (second number). Mine had version 5 and needs to be udpated at the factory.

Thomas

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Seems like it’s not quite that. With the gear switch up and turning the radio on, the gear stay up. With the lines swapped and channel reversed the gear go down when power is applied regardless of switch position. Which is fine for when the airplane is assembled standing on the gear, terrible for when it’s on the bench or shelf and the gear and doors are all closed and should not open except in sequence.

The powebox royal is quite new, and the version shown is 16.9.

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

I swapped all the lines on the valves so "gear down/doors open" are on the outputs furthest from the input side and reprogrammed the valves and sequencer. Works in that it's better than before, so no matter the current position of the gear or location of the switch on the transmitter, when power is applied to the sequencer/valves the gear tries to extend. I'm a little worried this is just going to result in the doors opening simultaneously instead of in sequence and getting all jammed up, so still looking for a better long term solution. I may evaluate using the Powerbox built-in sequencer instead of the Xicoy, though this would leave me without an air pressure failsafe.

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

Using the built-in sequencer of the Royal won't change anything. This is unfortunately standard behavior of the JetTronics valves.

Thomas

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Doh! Thanks Thomas.

Seems like the solution is going to be to make sure the system is powered on and established in the appropriate switch mode before airing up the tank. Of course, this model has all three gear in the fuselage so if I sealed it up well enough and it holds air that will still give the same problem when I want the gear to stay retracted.

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Couple of "for what it's worth" items of note:

I installed another Jet Tronics dual valve on the air brake. It does not default to any specific position, it obeys the transmitter switch when the tx/rx connection is made.

I reached out to Jet Tronics about the issue and they suggested moving the sequencer out front of the Powerbox and running it directly off of the receiver - I've not yet tried that.

I remembered the Xicoy sequencer has a "power up mode" setting, which mine was set to "Immediate Action" which should wait for the command from the tx, but obviously this wasn't happening for me. But when I changed it to "Check Gear Down" and to "Full Switch Cycle" it now no longer forces gear down when I turn everything on. So I just need to decide which of those two I prefer, if it even really matters, and I should be able to obtain what I set out to do originally even without moving the sequencer in front of the Powerbox as Jet Tronics suggested I do.