Dave Wilshere

ARTF's have killed the hobby. Its changed, in the UK our association was called Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers (SMAE) its now known as BMFA, but the engineer part is the key word, builders crafted their models, had pride in the job they did, it kept people busy and they would constantly spend small amounts of money and rarely add up what it all costs finished and ready for flight. The Hobby store had a constant feed of money from lots of people, now ARTF's are a one hit, one chance to make a buck and the hobby shops fight to discount something that is already low cost (and margin). People say the prices need to come down to attract people...no they need to go up...massively...and its going to happen if you want to function as we have. Sales are less, costs are higher...so like a Ferrari the items will cost more because less are made.
I get people asking me how much to 'build' an FMS foamie, I say its only 6 screws and 15 minutes...and they say, maybe-but I can't be bothered, so how much. These people don't stay in the hobby, don't get anything from owning, from crafting and basically after a few flights they get bored and sell the foamie off for a few bucks on ebay. After a few cycles they realise they are throwing away money and they leave the hobby. Just like people who sold all their helicopters and bought a DJi. Bored after a few weeks filming everything that interests them...they sell that off and go to look for a different fix since helicopter companies have gone too...because of drones. The buzz of engineering a smooth well set up helicopter does not exist with drones.
People get bored really quickly these days...kids more so. Death of the LHS? means no new blood as they don't pass a shop and wonder in to see. The internet is just a guilty on the demise. Great for info...bad for supplying the wrong info.
Yes, there are people still doing it, but not enough, just look around the clubs...old boys club, hobby and that club dies with them because the kids are not going to be interested in running a club and the friendships that are built within...they have bookface friends...who are generally really no friend.

Hobbico WILL have a huge effect (sorry if it should be affect!) on the hobby world wide, you guys don't know half of what is really going on. In the UK HH started the rot, hobbico closed their UK offices a couple of years back, all linked.

Sometime there will be one of those how not to do it seminars about some of these big hobby businesses...

I could go on and on, but there are many rose tinted specs watching.

why_fly_high

My Feedback: (19)

Honest question. ARFS are killing the hobby? I would agree killing it as we know it but does it mean the end. How is this any different than any other hobby that doesn't require fabrication? I know people that enjoy collecting and shooting guns but don't know anyone that makes their own guns. I know people that love fishing and don't build their own fishing rods and fishing reels. Golf, boating, surfing, stunt kites, etc.

I have built planes from scratch. I don't love building. I don't mind tinkering in the garage from time to time but I love flying.

dubd

I’m of the opinion that ARF planes extended the life of the hobby versus being the nail. There was never a growing number of people interested in building kits. That kit market was declining and if we didn’t have ARFs, we would have been talking about the death of the hobby 10-15 years ago.

Perhaps the real issue here is given the mom/pop nature of the hobby, there isn’t enough marketing expertise to understand consumer trends and then act in a proactive versus reactive manner.

Jgwright

The constant chasing of larger more expensive models is not helping. The manufacturers find it more economic, allegedly, rather than producing a lot of smaller planes. The larger planes need specialist transport, trailers or vans or both. It is for sure that there will be fewer people flying jets in the future as a result. Also many of the older modellers are not as keen as they once were. Post WW2 baby boomers are now aged around 70 and will not continue indefinitely. The ARTF's have been great for those wanting to get into the air with as reliable model as quickly as possible, why labour for 2-3 years making a model only to see it crash after a few flights. I don't think ARTF's have killed the hobby rather the opposite. Looking ahead now I would say it looks pretty bleak.

John

Shaun Evans

Perhaps.

I talk to a lot of people who see it that way. I kinda think it was the other way around. When I got my first part-time job in a hobby shop, people tended to sometimes shy away when we explained how they had to build their plane and cover it with Monokote, etc. The ones who jumped in, though, seemed to stay in. At least a lot longer than the guys who just stuck their toe in the water with an ARF. Back then, we had whole aisles stocked with kits. Sold them all day long, too. With ARF jets, I had more than a few Yellow A/C customers who were 'one good crash and I'm out of the hobby' types. Many of them lacked even the most rudimentary skils/knowledge base for planes, but had the cash to give it a try. Some would ask for a build quote, balk at it, try to do it themselves. .. then ship it to me half-done. I'd crack it open and think "oh my goodness.. Why are you trying to fly a JET when you used servo mounting screws to put the servo arm on the servo??" Those guys didn't stay in the hobby.

Again, I'm not capping on guys who don' want to build. I' just saying that the decline of building is part of the declidecline of the hobby. I always check out the LHS in whatever town I travel to, and nowadays it' ONLY Chinese ARFS and drones.

dubd

Ah, the good old days. Current generation of consumers don’t care to build anything. We optimize to reduce inconvenience. i.e. premade meals, instant video, home deliveries. It’s the sign of the times and radio control kit building no longer has a market. “Normal” people think spending that much time on a hobby is wasteful. I must say, with two small kids and a demanding career, I can hardly justify the time it takes to build a Chinese ARF let alone a kit. Opportunity cost.

n00bs buying ARFS and crashing them is a different subject. No one stopped people from buying kits and having someone build it for them. I’m sure plenty of people with extra cash did that back in the day.

SECRET AGENT

My Feedback: (18)

"“Normal” people think spending that much time on a hobby is wasteful."

HA!! "Normal" people think grown men playing with toy planes is wasteful.

Just glad I've never settled for "normal".

dubd

I agree 100%, but if you want to grow a market, you need to be aware of the wants/needs of "normal" people... and in today's market, they've gravitated towards drones. Hence why DJI makes a ton of money and Hobbico is bankrupt.

Shaun Evans

Hi,

It's kinda funny, but even to this day, every time I have a person approach me at the field and say, "Wow. That's really beautiful!" in reference to the ARF I'm flying, I have the same smiling response: "Well, if I ever meet the ladies in China who made this, I'll tell them you said so!" That usually gets a laugh, but underneath, there really is a strange kind of discomfort with getting compliments on my ARF's. Now, my nephew and I built a Sig Kadet LT-40 trainer which was FLAWLESS. People thought it was an ARF and would say so to our faces. I'd correct them with, "Uhh... NO. We BUILT that." Then they'd go take a closer look and come back with "Wow... YOU did this covering??" We'd say, "Yep. Pull and stretch. Take your time. There are guys that can Monokote a tennis ball without a single wrinkle."

I'm happy and proud when someone admires the work I've done on a model, but when it's an ARF, I'm satisfied if they think I'm a decent pilot

dubd

Ultimately I don’t think most people care whether it was an ARF, kit, or bought used from a Top Gun competitor. They want to see it fly.

When I go to jet events there are a ton of impressive planes and almost without exception, they were kits built by someone else. Is that any better or worse than a ARF?

aquaskiman

My Feedback: (46)

I see a lot of the foamy fliers that will not even come over to look at a nice war plane or jet. That tells me they have no real interest in aviation. There will be a $10000 jet in the air and up they come. Before I started into jets I would stay around for hours to see a ducted fan jet fly and no one would even think about flying at that time.

Chris Smith

My Feedback: (2)

Lots of generalized blanket statements flying around on this thread. Granted it is the interweb.
What evidence is there that says this "hobby is dying", Hobbico? Or is it because no one builds anymore?

Should we not first define what we think the hobby is, then look at data to show it is dying out?
We shouldn't confuse changes in the hobby with that of an activity that is going away or dying.

Let's take the jet flying segment for example. From what I can see, many jet meets have grown in pilot attendance numbers over the last few years. So much so we hear about some CD's requiring pre-registration and limiting pilot slots.
Are electric meets, helicopter, Joe Nall, etc, all getting smaller? CDs keep attendance data as an AMA requirement. Let's look at that data. Even that data represents a fraction of model airplane flying. But since we are jet guys, our data might be interesting.

Shaun Evans

Hi,

Normally, I agree with everything you write, but I definitely think people care--especially other pilots! Actually, I'd even say I know they do, based on their reactions when they find out. Regarding jet events, I admit I haven't attended many since my illness, but the last few I went to, I almost never saw kit-built jets. Impressive, yes. "Kits built by someone else"... not so many. I seem to recall standing next to YOU, being extremely envious of a certain BVM F-100. I was definitely impressed with how you flew it, but I was even more impressed with the bird itself--particularly since I knew they didn't offer that as an ARF. So someone had to have built it.

Again, my sentiments are my own feelings and opinions. Yes, they are influenced by my appreciation for building. When I demure from compliments on ARF's, it's just because I don't deserve any credit for it's 'beauty.' If they want to say, "Wow, you really seem to have put a lot of thought into servo-arm geometry!" or "Man, you really know how to line up those trailing edges and make the control-surface gaps paper-thin!" then I'll smile and say, "Thanks very much!"

Shaun Evans

Good points!

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

What does an interest in aviation have to do with RC?? These are toys, and a hobby. I've been flying RC since the 70's... worked in hobby shops for at least 7 years of my younger life... got my private in the early 90's... and have my waiver, but I could care less about scale RC. Oh... and to be very honest... when I would see a nitro DF TRYING to get off the runway... I would just see how much $$$ was sitting there, and how poorly it would fly... then shake my head and laugh. (Then fire up my 40 surpass on my Jr Tiger, with a "Noid" pilot under the canopy, and fly the piss out of it)

aquaskiman

My Feedback: (46)

Most of the rc model airplane flyers a few years ago had a base interest in aviation and enjoyed seeing a different airplane fly including the skill it took to fly a underpowered DF or a heavy war bird. So I am saying that a lot of the new foamy flyers don't have an interest in anything but there own $200.00 foamy. It didn't used to be like that.

Dansy

My Feedback: (53)

I wrote a big reply to your false expectations, but then I taught your just another narrow minded individual.... Happy flying with your underpowered planes.....

aquaskiman

My Feedback: (46)

Where did you get the idea I was flying nitro ducted fans??????????????????????? I was talking about years ago before RC turbines. You know there is always someone like you that misunderstands what was said and makes a big deal of it..........End of story you have your opinion and I have mine.

dubd

I get your point of view. I was simply stating that the market for builders has evaporated. I'm sure if we had more kits than ARFs available, those kits would not sell.

reo

My Feedback: (130)

Simply put, to survive in business you have to offer people what they want, not what you think they need (or want). We used to have a LHS in Canada whose motto was "if we don't have it, you don't need it".......arrogance at its' best.

jescardin

My Feedback: (1)

Or experte in deep experience, isnīt it?.

Best Regards

Halcyon66

There seems to be a lot of posts relating to why the industry is this and why the industry is that, yet Hobbico has stated they have 100 to 500 mil in liabilities? No one seems to be pointing the finger at Hobbico just a whole pile of supposed reasons why they went under based on the changes in the industry. 100 mil of debt is a huge amount of money when rates are rising.

Any company with those numbers outstanding and it would be costing them a pile of money to service. So they would have known for a while they were in trouble but they just tried to run it out.

Regards,

RocketRobin

RC killed the hobby back in the 20th century.

In the CL days you had to build an airframe and dope it down with mind numbing chemicals. After the brain damage you had to learn to start the engine, made with analogue manufacturing sorting systems (often circumvented, according to finances). Days of flipping props, sliced fingers and buying new batteries, then smashing your plane into the ground. Balsa bashing.

Those were the days, my friend
I thought they'll never end
We'll sing and dance
Forever and a day

Then they invented RC. That was the end of the hobby.

Heli pilots that never sniffed a tube of Ambroid cement? Lions and tigers and bears and dangerous chemicals! What has the world come to?

Where have all the CL planes gone
Long time passing

On the other hand, FPV racing is intriguing. You need a bit of technical alacrity to even get started, but few to help.
Plenty of curmudgeons to rage on about the olden days. Nobody to help with the new wave?

henry finley

delete

dionysusbacchus

My Feedback: (25)

I posted in here, but I don't want to be confused with the curmudgeons. I think the luster of airplanes is going, they appear to be old news. Personally I'm a scale modeler, so that will never happen, I enjoy the history and research just as much as the building, flying is just the icing on the cake. My first plane was painted with dope, don't expect it to be the norm today!

Went to the local HobbyTown USA today for the first time in months, the whole airplane section has been reduced to a shelf with some foam ARF's, no more staff behind a counter. At the upper level of the hobby, you can't get service from a Hobby shop and I don't expect them to carry what I need, it's just telling is all I'm saying.

I've seen the discrimination myself in the last club I was in here locally. Club president ran off a family because he does not like quads. It really made me mad, it was two small boys and their dad, along with the quads they did have a foam airplane to fly. I tried my hardest to be inclusive and get others into the club, but it was no use. It was interesting that the latest AMA mag had an article called, "As Clubs Mature". The local club here is in decline, maybe for several reasons, but the two main ones are that they are not inclusive and it is also authoritarian. I found that out by trying to get a simple rule change, ended up having to give up and quit myself. The last straw was an email formatted in a way with ALL CAPS IN THE CENTER PARAGRAPH TELLING US WHAT WE WERE NOT TO DO!!!

Anyway, change is inevitable, it's also inevitable that old brains don't like change. I just hope the AMA can win the next round to keep the special rule for model aircraft. Guess I am being old wanting to keep my planes until I die. LOL!