What does it take to get a waiver?
03-06-2018, 08:22 AM
#1
Thread Starter
What does it take to get a waiver?
Hello all,
Forgive me if this thread already exists. If it does please direct me to it, as I was unable to find one.
I am a Colorado native and am interested in obtaining the AMA Turbine Waiver. I read on the AMA website that one must connect with a Turbine Waiver CD who can sign you off, actually 2 of those folks if I understand correctly. There aren't many here in CO I see (I have the list from the AMA site).
Also, I was reading the requirements to be eligible and I believe I saw that you must log 50 flights in an advanced aircraft that does at least 100 mph? Is this correct? Seems interesting. Any suggestions as to what might qualify as an "Advanced airplane" that goes that fast? I also read about the "check ride" one has to demonstrate as well.
I compete in IMAC and feel pretty confident in my aircraft control and energy management skills. Any other words of advice and suggestions?
Thanks!
Forgive me if this thread already exists. If it does please direct me to it, as I was unable to find one.
I am a Colorado native and am interested in obtaining the AMA Turbine Waiver. I read on the AMA website that one must connect with a Turbine Waiver CD who can sign you off, actually 2 of those folks if I understand correctly. There aren't many here in CO I see (I have the list from the AMA site).
Also, I was reading the requirements to be eligible and I believe I saw that you must log 50 flights in an advanced aircraft that does at least 100 mph? Is this correct? Seems interesting. Any suggestions as to what might qualify as an "Advanced airplane" that goes that fast? I also read about the "check ride" one has to demonstrate as well.
I compete in IMAC and feel pretty confident in my aircraft control and energy management skills. Any other words of advice and suggestions?
Thanks!
03-06-2018, 08:57 AM
#2
The requirements are pretty well spelled out and it seems you already read them.
You need a turbine waiver holder and a turbine waiver holder thats a CD to sign you off based on a check flight.
I had lots of flights on a Habu 32x and had no problem getting the required flights and my check flight to get the sign off on my friends Falcon.
You need a turbine waiver holder and a turbine waiver holder thats a CD to sign you off based on a check flight.
I had lots of flights on a Habu 32x and had no problem getting the required flights and my check flight to get the sign off on my friends Falcon.
03-06-2018, 09:01 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Ah, exactly as advertised I suppose... I was indeed looking into the Habu 32x myself for the task. I guess I shall proceed then.
Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the advice.
Last edited by MFIGHT43; 03-06-2018 at 12:56 PM.
03-06-2018, 09:38 AM
#6
Thread Starter
I'm in the Denver area. I actually recognize one of the names on the list of CD's so I will be in touch with him. I just wanted to feel out what this is going to entail so I know if I want to proceed.
03-06-2018, 10:13 AM
#10
Even if it will do over 100 they generally land at walking speed. As a turbine CD I want to see time on something with a high wing loading that flys like a jet. Even if you could get away with it under the "letter of the law", time on a model like the Habu will pay off in the end. You could even add a delay in the throttle channel to simulate turbine lag because lag and landing highly loaded models are the two things that bite most new jet pilots.
03-06-2018, 10:59 AM
#12
OK well I think some people make a huge deal out of this waiver when, if you have someone that is a good flyer, they will not have a problem. So at the risk of ASSuming, do you want the waiver to have it or do you have a plane you want to get?
If it is the latter, we fought hard to get the buddy box added (back in 2004 IIRC). So if it were me, I would go ahead and get the plane, and find someone that can buddy box you and start there. I would not waste my money on a habu unless you wanted one anyway.
THere are a lot of guys in CO, so try to go to a club meeting or preferably a jet rally, and find some of the low key guys and ask them. The problem is, if things are anything like my area, the low key guys don't want anything to do with sign offs, too much drama from the safety police!
If it is the latter, we fought hard to get the buddy box added (back in 2004 IIRC). So if it were me, I would go ahead and get the plane, and find someone that can buddy box you and start there. I would not waste my money on a habu unless you wanted one anyway.
THere are a lot of guys in CO, so try to go to a club meeting or preferably a jet rally, and find some of the low key guys and ask them. The problem is, if things are anything like my area, the low key guys don't want anything to do with sign offs, too much drama from the safety police!
03-06-2018, 11:02 AM
#13
My Feedback: (2)
Denver Turbine flying
I am in the Denver area and have flown my Boomerang Intro at the MAS field which I see listed on your post. I don't know of any other turbine fliers at MAS but Tom Neff is turbine CD and willing to help. Call me if I can help. There is a jet rally at Ft. Collins in May which is a good place for jet info.
Sid Gates
720-346-7970
03-06-2018, 11:11 AM
#15
I'm with Bob on that one, get the airplane you want ( something with a not so high wing loading preferable ) practice and get your waiver with it, many have done that, those $500 use them to get the retracts for the turbine jet you are planing to get.
Most of all, have fun getting the waiver, it is important but it should be fun to get
Most of all, have fun getting the waiver, it is important but it should be fun to get
03-06-2018, 11:32 AM
#16
I love to see IMAC guys flying jets. Guys like Joe McBride and Kenny Mac. It really makes me feel sad for skipping right over IMAC and Pattern, straight to jets. The precision and thoughtful maneuver executions those guys do is amazing to watch.
I suppose I could get an IMAC/pattern airplane and get my flying chops up to snuff too!!
The advice of hooking up with the local “low key” ie low stress/open minded jet guys is key. I would wait on an airplane purchase and ask your local guy(s) what they know and recommend so that someone with experience knows your first jet. It’s going to get beat up anyways so don’t fall in love with it!!
Good luck and don’t forget, this hobby is about fun too!
I suppose I could get an IMAC/pattern airplane and get my flying chops up to snuff too!!
The advice of hooking up with the local “low key” ie low stress/open minded jet guys is key. I would wait on an airplane purchase and ask your local guy(s) what they know and recommend so that someone with experience knows your first jet. It’s going to get beat up anyways so don’t fall in love with it!!
Good luck and don’t forget, this hobby is about fun too!
03-06-2018, 12:32 PM
#17
Even if it will do over 100 they generally land at walking speed. As a turbine CD I want to see time on something with a high wing loading that flys like a jet. Even if you could get away with it under the "letter of the law", time on a model like the Habu will pay off in the end. You could even add a delay in the throttle channel to simulate turbine lag because lag and landing highly loaded models are the two things that bite most new jet pilots.
03-06-2018, 12:52 PM
#18
Thread Starter
================================================== ==============
I am in the Denver area and have flown my Boomerang Intro at the MAS field which I see listed on your post. I don't know of any other turbine fliers at MAS but Tom Neff is turbine CD and willing to help. Call me if I can help. There is a jet rally at Ft. Collins in May which is a good place for jet info.
Sid Gates
720-346-7970
I am in the Denver area and have flown my Boomerang Intro at the MAS field which I see listed on your post. I don't know of any other turbine fliers at MAS but Tom Neff is turbine CD and willing to help. Call me if I can help. There is a jet rally at Ft. Collins in May which is a good place for jet info.
Sid Gates
720-346-7970
03-06-2018, 01:10 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Even if it will do over 100 they generally land at walking speed. As a turbine CD I want to see time on something with a high wing loading that flys like a jet. Even if you could get away with it under the "letter of the law", time on a model like the Habu will pay off in the end. You could even add a delay in the throttle channel to simulate turbine lag because lag and landing highly loaded models are the two things that bite most new jet pilots.
03-06-2018, 01:18 PM
#20
I would link up with some, or at least one, Jet Guys who fly a lot. Work as a spotter for a season. This will help you learn the ropes of turbine operation and expose you to some of the details of the sport. As a Spotter you will be part of thrill and maybe even part of the occasional defeat. Then decide if you really want to do this. Jet planes are very expensive and technical. Loss of control can be quick and devastating to the plane and people onsite. Unless you by a used one, one has to have a lot of knowledge on how to assemble one that is reliable and safe. There can be a lot of electronic hardware and transmitter programming hurtles to master. Spending time with the Jet Guys will help you with that knowledge.
There is a lot more to owning and flying a jet than being able to land and fly fast! Time hanging out with the Jet Guys will help you gain some of the knowledge you will need and help you find someone to help fill in the gaps as you assemble your new baby. Also, do NOT start out with a "sport jet" or "scale jet." Get a trainer. The shift from a trainer to a sport jet is a leap. And, ... then there is another leap to the Scale Birds. If you want success and minimal cost, start out with a turbine powered trainer and buddy box with an experienced jet pilot. EDFs land differently and experience has proven to seldom greatly help one make the transition to turbine power jets (e.g. Startup routines, reactions to hot starts, how to avoid hot starts after a start failure, etc. etc.) And landing a 20-35 pound turbine jet is way different from a 5 - 10 pound EDF.
I have seen potential jet pilots jump right into this sport and fail. They typically end up not sticking with jets or spending a lot of unnecessary $s trying to master them (if one can ever really master one!)
Also, ... not only is there a cert. process, there is a list of things you have to prove mastery of during the cert. flight. But if you build a relationship with the Jet Guys and work with them, they will help you learn what you need to learn to pass the cert. evaluation. Once they trust your ability, the rest is easy. It then often becomes their challenge to help get you ready for cert.. Also, there is a certain set of protocol that most jet pilots follow. If you plan to fly with other Jet Guys, some experience in this area is necessary (e.g. Flying the pattern, spotter to pilot expectations and communications, Inter spotter communications, dealing with controlled flight lines, etc.) Some time as a spotter with an experienced good pilot greatly helps you pick this up.
As a CD, the above is what we expect of our rookies to get certified. Occasionally, we stray for very experienced pilots. But either way, there is a lot more to learn for a turbine cert. and being a good jet pilot than just flying fast.
There is a lot more to owning and flying a jet than being able to land and fly fast! Time hanging out with the Jet Guys will help you gain some of the knowledge you will need and help you find someone to help fill in the gaps as you assemble your new baby. Also, do NOT start out with a "sport jet" or "scale jet." Get a trainer. The shift from a trainer to a sport jet is a leap. And, ... then there is another leap to the Scale Birds. If you want success and minimal cost, start out with a turbine powered trainer and buddy box with an experienced jet pilot. EDFs land differently and experience has proven to seldom greatly help one make the transition to turbine power jets (e.g. Startup routines, reactions to hot starts, how to avoid hot starts after a start failure, etc. etc.) And landing a 20-35 pound turbine jet is way different from a 5 - 10 pound EDF.
I have seen potential jet pilots jump right into this sport and fail. They typically end up not sticking with jets or spending a lot of unnecessary $s trying to master them (if one can ever really master one!)
Also, ... not only is there a cert. process, there is a list of things you have to prove mastery of during the cert. flight. But if you build a relationship with the Jet Guys and work with them, they will help you learn what you need to learn to pass the cert. evaluation. Once they trust your ability, the rest is easy. It then often becomes their challenge to help get you ready for cert.. Also, there is a certain set of protocol that most jet pilots follow. If you plan to fly with other Jet Guys, some experience in this area is necessary (e.g. Flying the pattern, spotter to pilot expectations and communications, Inter spotter communications, dealing with controlled flight lines, etc.) Some time as a spotter with an experienced good pilot greatly helps you pick this up.
As a CD, the above is what we expect of our rookies to get certified. Occasionally, we stray for very experienced pilots. But either way, there is a lot more to learn for a turbine cert. and being a good jet pilot than just flying fast.
03-06-2018, 02:14 PM
#22
My Feedback: (1)
Be glad you have the option of a buddy box. I got my waiver in 1996 and buddy boxing on a turbine was completely verboten by the AMA and the number of "experienced turbine pilots" in the US could be counted on one hand . Luckily I had already been flying ducted fans for a number of years, so finding a suitable check flight airplane wasn't a problem, but when I made my first turbine flight I was pretty much on my own.
To prepare I did exactly what BarracudaHockey suggested, I used servo slow on the throttle channel of my ducted fan Interceptor for about 6 months before I made my first flight on a turbine powered version of the same airplane. I practiced landings, touch and goes, and go-arounds on every flight, and I think it really did help me understand what to expect from the turbine powered plane. I was still scared ****less when I made the first flight, but I was as well prepared as I could be, and it went off without a hitch.
To prepare I did exactly what BarracudaHockey suggested, I used servo slow on the throttle channel of my ducted fan Interceptor for about 6 months before I made my first flight on a turbine powered version of the same airplane. I practiced landings, touch and goes, and go-arounds on every flight, and I think it really did help me understand what to expect from the turbine powered plane. I was still scared ****less when I made the first flight, but I was as well prepared as I could be, and it went off without a hitch.
03-06-2018, 03:29 PM
#24
I would link up with some, or at least one, Jet Guys who fly a lot. Work as a spotter for a season. This will help you learn the ropes of turbine operation and expose you to some of the details of the sport. As a Spotter you will be part of thrill and maybe even part of the occasional defeat. Then decide if you really want to do this. Jet planes are very expensive and technical. Loss of control can be quick and devastating to the plane and people onsite. Unless you by a used one, one has to have a lot of knowledge on how to assemble one that is reliable and safe. There can be a lot of electronic hardware and transmitter programming hurtles to master. Spending time with the Jet Guys will help you with that knowledge.
There is a lot more to owning and flying a jet than being able to land and fly fast! Time hanging out with the Jet Guys will help you gain some of the knowledge you will need and help you find someone to help fill in the gaps as you assemble your new baby. Also, do NOT start out with a "sport jet" or "scale jet." Get a trainer. The shift from a trainer to a sport jet is a leap. And, ... then there is another leap to the Scale Birds. If you want success and minimal cost, start out with a turbine powered trainer and buddy box with an experienced jet pilot. EDFs land differently and experience has proven to seldom greatly help one make the transition to turbine power jets (e.g. Startup routines, reactions to hot starts, how to avoid hot starts after a start failure, etc. etc.) And landing a 20-35 pound turbine jet is way different from a 5 - 10 pound EDF.
I have seen potential jet pilots jump right into this sport and fail. They typically end up not sticking with jets or spending a lot of unnecessary $s trying to master them (if one can ever really master one!)
Also, ... not only is there a cert. process, there is a list of things you have to prove mastery of during the cert. flight. But if you build a relationship with the Jet Guys and work with them, they will help you learn what you need to learn to pass the cert. evaluation. Once they trust your ability, the rest is easy. It then often becomes their challenge to help get you ready for cert.. Also, there is a certain set of protocol that most jet pilots follow. If you plan to fly with other Jet Guys, some experience in this area is necessary (e.g. Flying the pattern, spotter to pilot expectations and communications, Inter spotter communications, dealing with controlled flight lines, etc.) Some time as a spotter with an experienced good pilot greatly helps you pick this up.
As a CD, the above is what we expect of our rookies to get certified. Occasionally, we stray for very experienced pilots. But either way, there is a lot more to learn for a turbine cert. and being a good jet pilot than just flying fast.
There is a lot more to owning and flying a jet than being able to land and fly fast! Time hanging out with the Jet Guys will help you gain some of the knowledge you will need and help you find someone to help fill in the gaps as you assemble your new baby. Also, do NOT start out with a "sport jet" or "scale jet." Get a trainer. The shift from a trainer to a sport jet is a leap. And, ... then there is another leap to the Scale Birds. If you want success and minimal cost, start out with a turbine powered trainer and buddy box with an experienced jet pilot. EDFs land differently and experience has proven to seldom greatly help one make the transition to turbine power jets (e.g. Startup routines, reactions to hot starts, how to avoid hot starts after a start failure, etc. etc.) And landing a 20-35 pound turbine jet is way different from a 5 - 10 pound EDF.
I have seen potential jet pilots jump right into this sport and fail. They typically end up not sticking with jets or spending a lot of unnecessary $s trying to master them (if one can ever really master one!)
Also, ... not only is there a cert. process, there is a list of things you have to prove mastery of during the cert. flight. But if you build a relationship with the Jet Guys and work with them, they will help you learn what you need to learn to pass the cert. evaluation. Once they trust your ability, the rest is easy. It then often becomes their challenge to help get you ready for cert.. Also, there is a certain set of protocol that most jet pilots follow. If you plan to fly with other Jet Guys, some experience in this area is necessary (e.g. Flying the pattern, spotter to pilot expectations and communications, Inter spotter communications, dealing with controlled flight lines, etc.) Some time as a spotter with an experienced good pilot greatly helps you pick this up.
As a CD, the above is what we expect of our rookies to get certified. Occasionally, we stray for very experienced pilots. But either way, there is a lot more to learn for a turbine cert. and being a good jet pilot than just flying fast.
Craig
03-06-2018, 04:13 PM
#25
Thread Starter
I would link up with some, or at least one, Jet Guys who fly a lot. Work as a spotter for a season. This will help you learn the ropes of turbine operation and expose you to some of the details of the sport. As a Spotter you will be part of thrill and maybe even part of the occasional defeat. Then decide if you really want to do this. Jet planes are very expensive and technical. Loss of control can be quick and devastating to the plane and people onsite. Unless you by a used one, one has to have a lot of knowledge on how to assemble one that is reliable and safe. There can be a lot of electronic hardware and transmitter programming hurtles to master. Spending time with the Jet Guys will help you with that knowledge.
There is a lot more to owning and flying a jet than being able to land and fly fast! Time hanging out with the Jet Guys will help you gain some of the knowledge you will need and help you find someone to help fill in the gaps as you assemble your new baby. Also, do NOT start out with a "sport jet" or "scale jet." Get a trainer. The shift from a trainer to a sport jet is a leap. And, ... then there is another leap to the Scale Birds. If you want success and minimal cost, start out with a turbine powered trainer and buddy box with an experienced jet pilot. EDFs land differently and experience has proven to seldom greatly help one make the transition to turbine power jets (e.g. Startup routines, reactions to hot starts, how to avoid hot starts after a start failure, etc. etc.) And landing a 20-35 pound turbine jet is way different from a 5 - 10 pound EDF.
I have seen potential jet pilots jump right into this sport and fail. They typically end up not sticking with jets or spending a lot of unnecessary $s trying to master them (if one can ever really master one!)
Also, ... not only is there a cert. process, there is a list of things you have to prove mastery of during the cert. flight. But if you build a relationship with the Jet Guys and work with them, they will help you learn what you need to learn to pass the cert. evaluation. Once they trust your ability, the rest is easy. It then often becomes their challenge to help get you ready for cert.. Also, there is a certain set of protocol that most jet pilots follow. If you plan to fly with other Jet Guys, some experience in this area is necessary (e.g. Flying the pattern, spotter to pilot expectations and communications, Inter spotter communications, dealing with controlled flight lines, etc.) Some time as a spotter with an experienced good pilot greatly helps you pick this up.
As a CD, the above is what we expect of our rookies to get certified. Occasionally, we stray for very experienced pilots. But either way, there is a lot more to learn for a turbine cert. and being a good jet pilot than just flying fast.
There is a lot more to owning and flying a jet than being able to land and fly fast! Time hanging out with the Jet Guys will help you gain some of the knowledge you will need and help you find someone to help fill in the gaps as you assemble your new baby. Also, do NOT start out with a "sport jet" or "scale jet." Get a trainer. The shift from a trainer to a sport jet is a leap. And, ... then there is another leap to the Scale Birds. If you want success and minimal cost, start out with a turbine powered trainer and buddy box with an experienced jet pilot. EDFs land differently and experience has proven to seldom greatly help one make the transition to turbine power jets (e.g. Startup routines, reactions to hot starts, how to avoid hot starts after a start failure, etc. etc.) And landing a 20-35 pound turbine jet is way different from a 5 - 10 pound EDF.
I have seen potential jet pilots jump right into this sport and fail. They typically end up not sticking with jets or spending a lot of unnecessary $s trying to master them (if one can ever really master one!)
Also, ... not only is there a cert. process, there is a list of things you have to prove mastery of during the cert. flight. But if you build a relationship with the Jet Guys and work with them, they will help you learn what you need to learn to pass the cert. evaluation. Once they trust your ability, the rest is easy. It then often becomes their challenge to help get you ready for cert.. Also, there is a certain set of protocol that most jet pilots follow. If you plan to fly with other Jet Guys, some experience in this area is necessary (e.g. Flying the pattern, spotter to pilot expectations and communications, Inter spotter communications, dealing with controlled flight lines, etc.) Some time as a spotter with an experienced good pilot greatly helps you pick this up.
As a CD, the above is what we expect of our rookies to get certified. Occasionally, we stray for very experienced pilots. But either way, there is a lot more to learn for a turbine cert. and being a good jet pilot than just flying fast.
Believe me, I know! My whole life is specific training, safety, qualification or "check rides"! Don't get me wrong, I am not some arrogant pilot who thinks this is easy and I can do it. I fully respect all of it. I am very meticulous and detail oriented, and am in no hurry. My wish is to do this right from the beginning. I do have to say though, I have encountered types that like to take all the fun out of this hobby. It is supposed to be fun. My day job already has all that stress in it. Thats one reason I stopped IMAC for a while.
My intentions are to buy/build a Turbinator for my first jet. That seems like an ideal platform. And a Habu seems like a fun diversion to get experience logged prior to the jet, even if the wing loading is not the same.
I knew posting this question here would be a good idea, and you all have been very helpful.