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Early ? Xicroy gear brake controller programming problems

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Early ? Xicroy gear brake controller programming problems

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Old 04-14-2018, 04:49 PM
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CRye
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Default Early ? Xicroy gear brake controller programming problems

When I get the gear to operate correctly to the switch position the brake only operates in the up position etc.
I seemed to have re run the programming 40 times including varying the endpoints on the TX. DX18 frame rate 11.
I am having some effect because when I operate it with a servo tester as the signal it has moved the trigger point to retract.

HELP
Charles
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Old 04-15-2018, 05:37 AM
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ww2birds
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I believe the controller is designed not to operate the brakes when gear is up .. and if you observe the opposite you must have the gear down when the controller thinks they are up. Perhaps you need to reverse the gear channel and reprogram.

Dave
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:11 AM
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Don't know if you are using an RB45 controller, but I've just had a similar issue. Tried everything, but could only get the steering to work with the wheels up (this is similar to the brakes and should be deactivated when retracted). Ended up reversing the servo plug to the retract in the controller, effectively reversing the operation of the retract in a given position, but then it gave me the steering when deployed.

Not sure if that is the same issue you are having, but after reversing the lead I went through the programming again and it solved it for me.

Simon
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Old 04-15-2018, 12:18 PM
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Len Todd
 
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You can reverse the two-wire leads (e.g. the wires from the controller to the gear drive motor or from the controller to the brakes.) But cannot reverse any three-wire leads. I'll bet the wires to the drive motors need to be reversed.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:09 PM
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Len is correct in his thinking. I had the same problem with my system until I realized that reversing the gear leads (installed in reverse of the color code on the controller) will reverse the gear action. The brakes would only activate when the gear was up but reversing the gear leads fixed that.

Last edited by Square Nozzle; 04-15-2018 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:26 PM
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Glad it wasn’t just me then. Tried every combination but I only had brakes and steering when they were retracted, no matter how I programmed it or which way the channel was reversed.

Kept me amused for about an hour before I tried reversing the polarity if the retract.

Simon
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Old 04-15-2018, 02:09 PM
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If I recall correctly, the first time I put in E-tracts I think I had the same problem too. Kind of like everything else with jets (i.e. the learning curve is rather steep, the first time around the block!)

I also had a lot of trouble matching up the brakes and getting proportional braking. Had to finally go with the "Pro" controller to get proportional. Then I had to do a lot of mechanical work on the brake disks and anti-rotation screws/pins to match the braking effects up on the two mains. Removed some threads on the tips of the screws and had to use various grit of sandpaper on the brake discs to get the resistance the same. Lots of frogging around compared to traditional air brakes.

The only other problem with E-Tracts and E-Brakes is all the E-connections at the wings. I went to using Electro Dynamics' "One Cliks" for the all those wing E-connections. They cut wing assembly time in 1/4 and they are very secure. With One Cliks, one can't hardly screw up on all those connections, either.
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:08 PM
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Thank you all. Just came back to the computer from trying single wire programming with no luck. I will try to repeat my steps until I get gear up and down and then reverse gear leads to get brakes on the ground. I guess the controller only reverses the polarity compared to last operation and then limits amps and bounces back a little to remove drive strain.
Well back at it.
Charles
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:47 PM
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wow, Wow, WOW, all I had to do was reverse the gear leads!!!!
I know I have at least 6 hours in on trying every trick I thought I knew with controllers. I just did not think it was accepting the data points.
I just go it to function in 5 minutes.
I did notice the brakes will hold enough to flex the prolink knuckle at just over 1/4 brake slider and that would burn a flat spot. At least the maiden flights will be on grass.
will now try Len's polish trick to help smooth out the braking a little.
Much thanks
Charles
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:53 PM
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I had issues programming mine too. What I discovered that isn't in the manual is the gear switch has to be in the position you want (down) when you program the brakes and steering. Otherwise the brakes and steering will work in the up position.
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:36 AM
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190,
I did try reversing the channel and got the same response. I even tried playing with the travel end points since that varies the pulse width of the signal. And I even tried narrowing and moving the end points so that neither the gear or brake was operating in the same pulse width like single servo lead controlling but no different result.
I wonder if there is a magic initiation sequence to get a factory reset?
I did some of the LEN TODD brake tuning and getting better brake control. Could be better but no data port on my controller. I may play with putting a variresistor in line with the brakes I definitely have a stronger signal on one side and moves to the other when I swap leads.
The surface of the disk appears to be galvanized, mostly zinc, which is soft. It may be an issue if you polish through it and base steel would rust. Upgrade to stainless and carbon steel disk sandwich???
Oh well, a new hobby to have ele brakes. I think I am going to build a true ABS system. Before I need the air tank for me
Charles
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:25 AM
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Auburn02
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Originally Posted by Len Todd View Post
You can reverse the two-wire leads (e.g. the wires from the controller to the gear drive motor or from the controller to the brakes.) But cannot reverse any three-wire leads. I'll bet the wires to the drive motors need to be reversed.
My BVM gear that uses a Xicoy controller and the gear did come with the red and orange wires reversed already (black orange red at the plug), but connecting them per the color codes on the Xicoy controller resulted in reversed operation. I could get the gear to go where I wanted with the transmitter switch the way I wanted, but no matter what I tried at the end of the setup when the gear were down the controller told me they were up and vice versa. And the result was the same issue as here, no steering when down, etc. Gaspar at Xicoy had me reverse the three wire plugs on the controller entirely, so I'm essentially connected black to red, orange to orange, and red to black. Weird, but it all works great now just like others have mentioned.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:54 AM
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I'm sorry to say, but it looks to me that you are overcomplicating the setup, making complicated assumptions that aren't correct.
Programming is very simple, and the program sequence resets all to factory default except the radio throws being programmed.

Setup of LGC12/RB45:
There is a LED indicator and a pushbutton to allow setup the unit.
Connect the RC channels you want to use (Gear In obligatory, Brake In and Steering In optional).
Set the Steering In (Rudder channel) in the position you want that the
steering servo be placed during retraction and gear up position.
Leave the main battery disconnected to prevent accidental movement of motors.
Check that the gear switch and brake lever in the TX are properly configured, use a servo to verify the receiver output.
Switch off the RX power. Press the button with the aid of a plastic rod (a pen, etc, but nothing metallic that could damage the electronic board).
While the button pressed,
Switch ON the power on the receiver.
When the receiver is powered, release the switch.The blue LED will light intermittently, one short flash with a long pause between flashes.
Set the switch on your transmitter at the position you want the gear to be retracted.
Once the switch on the TX set, press the button again. Hold it pressed until it lit continuously, this will indicate that the command received from the TX has been stored as “Gear Up” command.
Release the button, the led will blink 2 short times followed by a long pause.
Set the switch on the TX in the “Gear Down” position.Press the button again to store the “Gear Down” command.
Release the button, LED will blink 3 times. Set the brake command in the transmitter to “ZERO” brake.
Press the button to store the “Zero” brake. Now the lit will blink 4 times.
Set the TX slider to maximum brake. Press the button to store the maximum brake position.
Now the led will blink 5 times.
Verify that the nose wheel steering servo is centered.
Press the button to store the current servo position as the position that the steering will be locked during retraction and storage.


That’s all.

Now connect the main battery and test.


In the case that the any or all of the motors be in the wrong position (up when switch is in down position), simply reverse the motor connection. DO NOT change anything in the TX, if you do, you should repeat the above procedure.

If the gear or brakes don’t work as they should, then first connect a standard servo in place of the controller to verify the correct movement of the servo when operating the gear switch and slider brake in the TX.

Regarding the brakes:There is only one brake output with 2 connectors, it is not possible to have different output in one connector than the other.

IMPORTANT: Brakes need a run-in period, during this period the brake force is lower than should be and probably one brake will set faster than the other. No need to do anything, just use the brakes, do some taxi using the brakes often an you will see that quickly the brake force increases and both sides begin to equalize. Once the brakes set, is probable that the brake force be excessive and causing flats on the tires. (seen usually in wheels of 3” and low weight planes) . In this case you can reduce the ATV on the TX to reduce the maximum brake force.
If using the LGC13/RS200 model, is possible to program a sort of ABS function that pulses the brake force to allow the wheels to rotate, avoiding the possibility of creating a flat spot on the tire.


As always you can contact me directly for any particular clarification.

Gaspar

Last edited by Gaspar; 04-18-2018 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:44 AM
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Len Todd
 
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As noted above: There are two versions of the Zicoy controller. My Supplier, for example, calls them the BASIC and PRO versions. The Pro has an ABS like function. The BASIC does not.

Gaspar gave you excellent directions.

Setting the Txer's ATV back to keep the brakes from locking up on the basic controller is news to me. It always seemed the brakes were on or off. I gave up and traded my Basic for the Pro and never got that far with the Basic. (Not sure that the ATV setting/adjustment was mentioned in the directions provided with the controller. ) But, I had to give up on the basic cause I already had flat-spotted tires. Maybe I missed that. ??

I had 12 flights on mine, with the Pro controller, before I started matching up the discs. I could still see the texture difference on the surfaces and lightly sanded to get the surfaces to appear about the same. Last flight they worked fairly even. But, I was still trying to figure out the right amount of ABS to keep them from inadvertently locking up if I accidently took the lever too far. I'll get that figured out this year.

Last edited by Len Todd; 04-19-2018 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:51 AM
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No, brakes are fully proportional, When you learn the radio throws, the controller assign the endpoints, if you have the brake slider travel set in the TX from -100% to +100% during learning procedure, the controller will output zero brake force when receiving the -100% signal and full brake force at +100%, being proportional in between (at center of travel you will have 50% brake power). So if AFTER programming the radio, you reduce the maximum to to 0%, (so at minimum still be at -100% at maximum 0%) you will have the brakes going from zero to 50% force.

If doing these tricks on the radio, please take in to account that:

Do not change the minimum endpoint, if during learning procedure was -100%, leave always at -100%, otherwise the brakes will be always powered if the command signal never arrives to "zero" (-100%) .
Actual values on the radio are not important, you can program endpoints -40/+50 +50/-40 etc... It is possible to use only one channel to control gear and brakes by setting, for example, gear up at -100%, gear down at -75% and brake travel from -75% to + 100%.
And finally, always that you do the programming procedure, values are reset tp 100%. meaning if you have reduced the ATV to reduce the brake force to 50%, and then do a learning procedure, the controller will take the new values as 100% travel, so you will have again full brake force.

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Old 04-19-2018, 04:32 AM
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I appreciate this really valuable information. I do NOT recall this information being in the directions that come with the controllers. When I called the supplier about the lack of proportional braking the answer provided was that to get it, I would have to go to the Pro Controller. Maybe meaning that even the suppliers do not know the above information? This type of information would be a lot more helpful if it was in the instructions that came with the product. But, thank you for being around to help us out.

I still have the Basic controller sitting in the junk box. When I initially set it up per the instructions, with -100% and +100% on the transmitter on the right slider, the brakes appeared to be on or off as I moved the slider (i.e. no brakes and then full brakes). The slider only had to be moved two clicks to go from no brakes to full brakes. In order to get more movement on the slider to go from no bakes to full brakes, that is when I installed the Pro, which seems to have given me more slider travel. It is probably not set up per the above instructions either.

Think I'll get out the instructions, set it upon the bench and play around with what you are suggesting.

Oh, is the above information also true for the Pro Version?
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:05 AM
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Maybe you had a resumed manual from DW, anyway you can download the full manual here: LGC13.pdf On this manual the instructions on first page say "-Control of electric brake, full proportional."

The procedure to setup the radio I wrote above is the same as described in the instructions, nothing new. Just writed with other words and maybe a bit more elaborated to clear the misunderstandings on this thread
BTW, the "Pro" version (aka LGC13/RS200) has a menu that allow to reduce the maximum brake force without having to tweak the radio.

Gaspar

Last edited by Gaspar; 04-19-2018 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:32 AM
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Len Todd
 
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Thank you for your help, knowledge and understanding. I am sure it will help many of us.

I currently have the LGC13 in the Ultra Flash. It seems to give me more Brake resolution (i.e. more movement of the slider between off and full on). I also set back the maximum force so that they will not lock up at full on. It seems to be working O.K..

With the LGC12 and transmitter's Brake channel set at -100/+100, if the zero to full braking happens in two clicks (about 1/10th) of the slider's travel, how do I spread that braking out over the entire travel of the slider?
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:37 AM
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Gaspar, Lyn, Si and all,
Thank you for your inputs.
I got called away for structural work on a full scale.
Swapping polarity on the retracts did indeed synchronize LG down and brakes enabled.
And the info about wearing in the brakes makes perfect sense.
Charles
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Len Todd View Post
Thank you for your help, knowledge and understanding. I am sure it will help many of us.
With the LGC12 and transmitter's Brake channel set at -100/+100, if the zero to full braking happens in two clicks (about 1/10th) of the slider's travel, how do I spread that braking out over the entire travel of the slider?
This just mean that the radio is not learned correctly, first connect an old servo to the brake channel in the receiver to confirm that it moves linearly according to slider position, once confirmed this, just redo the procedure described above. Often there are hidden mixes in a particualr channel that are very easy to spot when using a servo, but difficult to see if using an electronic Device like a valve, servo, etc.

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