SKYMASTER 1:6 F-16 Gen 3 ISSUES. ANTON PLEASE GET INVOLVED
12-09-2018, 10:18 AM
#1
SKYMASTER 1:6 F-16 Gen 3 ISSUES. ANTON PLEASE GET INVOLVED
Anton,
I have no other way to reach you other than here, where I sent you a PM 3 weeks ago with no response. I am now posting these issues in the attempt to get these issues resolved. Several months ago I ordered a Skymaster F-16 through a dealer and received it the end of October. There were several components missing from the order as well as other issues with the model that were due to mishandling and/or improper installation at your facility, NOT from shipping damage. I will not name the dealer here as they were at no point at any fault for any of the issues.I am needing you to get involved due to the ever changing stories by your staff, it's inability to provide quality control of its work or what else they are shipping out and my total dissatisfaction of what I have received vs. what I paid for and how your staff and facility has handled these problems.
Below I will describe all issues withe model and provide pictures and other documentation to substantiate my claims.
Shown Below is my invoice to show what was ordered, edited solely for the purpose of not showing the dealer information.
Listed below are the missing components that was emailed to the dealer then forwarded to your staff. I can forward to you all of the emails if you don't have them
MISSING COMPONENT: QUOTED RESPONSE THAT I RECEIVED NOVEMBER 7:
1. Fuel tanks and hardware missing they are sent with lights later.
2. Light kit and control module missing they are out of stock.we send in a couple of days.
3. Nose gear landing light missing they are out of stock.we send in a couple of days.
3. Air cylinders for gear doors missing NO RESPONSE
The next missing component is the bulkhead that the front of the main gear and the main gear door cylinders attach to.
The first picture is of another F-16 that has the bulkhead and the second picture is of my F-16 with the bulkhead missing.
Below is a Picture of my F-16 missing the bulkhead.
SO I ALSO NEED THIS BULKHEAD!
Next are the improperly handled or assembled (damaged) components. Note that there was NO damage to the box that the jet and its contents was shipped in.
1. 1 large Bomb mishandled before or during packing.Stated this way due to where it was placed in the box for shipping.
Replacement is supposedly being made.
2. Left wing (Aileron live hinge) improperly installed or mishandled at facility. MULTIPLE PICTURES ADDED TO SHOW NO OTHER DAMAGE TO THE WING.
This is where the changing stories come in. First I was given the choice of sending wing back for repair or a replacement wing with a 10 week wait. Then the only thing I could do was send back for repair. email segments shown below. segmented to save space. Again these emails can be sent to you if you don't already have access to them from your staff.
This statement is quoted from a response email from Skymaster staff on November 7. "if customer don't want to fix,pls send us back wing,we can fix here.if customer ask for new wing,we are afraid delivery time is 10 weeks,maybe,because factory is very busy."
My response was to have a new wing made. The below statement is the response received on November 28.
"I just checked with production director.the wing can not be replaced with other wing,becuase the other new wing will not fit fuselage customer has. the wings are not interchangable.one wing fit one fuselage.So,pls ask customer to ship back wing asap."
Below shows no other damages
I bring this up as I received a phone call from the shipping company about a damaged shipment claim that I didn't place and they wanted to send someone out to inspect the box. As I stated earlier, there was NO damage to the box.
There were also other issues.
1. Both elevators:
Torque rods did not have flat spot machining done far enough for control horn to attach at correct point or torque rods not properly placed in elevators. An additional 20 mm of machining was needed to get control horn to correct position. (no photos taken prior to repair)
2. Improper fiberglass work on fuselage near left elevator (picture below)
CONCLUSION:
Please let me know how you want to remedy these issues.
Missing or damaged:
1. fuel tanks and hardware missing
2. light kit with control module missing
3. nose gear landing light missing
4. air cylinders for gear doors (all 3) missing
5. Bulkhead missing
6. Damaged bomb
7. live hinge on left wing not properly installed
Why have my missing parts still not shipped? I was told a couple of days of a month ago. Last week told 1-2 more weeks.
When will my missing parts really ship?
Why would I be given choice of repair or replacement of the left wing then told send for repair only? what's going on here?
I have the information on sending the left wing back. I have not sent it yet.
On a last note. You really need to update your manual as it is for the Gen 1 and there have been several updates to the kit and you need to update the manual to reflect those changes.
Thank you
I have no other way to reach you other than here, where I sent you a PM 3 weeks ago with no response. I am now posting these issues in the attempt to get these issues resolved. Several months ago I ordered a Skymaster F-16 through a dealer and received it the end of October. There were several components missing from the order as well as other issues with the model that were due to mishandling and/or improper installation at your facility, NOT from shipping damage. I will not name the dealer here as they were at no point at any fault for any of the issues.I am needing you to get involved due to the ever changing stories by your staff, it's inability to provide quality control of its work or what else they are shipping out and my total dissatisfaction of what I have received vs. what I paid for and how your staff and facility has handled these problems.
Below I will describe all issues withe model and provide pictures and other documentation to substantiate my claims.
Shown Below is my invoice to show what was ordered, edited solely for the purpose of not showing the dealer information.
Listed below are the missing components that was emailed to the dealer then forwarded to your staff. I can forward to you all of the emails if you don't have them
MISSING COMPONENT: QUOTED RESPONSE THAT I RECEIVED NOVEMBER 7:
1. Fuel tanks and hardware missing they are sent with lights later.
2. Light kit and control module missing they are out of stock.we send in a couple of days.
3. Nose gear landing light missing they are out of stock.we send in a couple of days.
3. Air cylinders for gear doors missing NO RESPONSE
The next missing component is the bulkhead that the front of the main gear and the main gear door cylinders attach to.
The first picture is of another F-16 that has the bulkhead and the second picture is of my F-16 with the bulkhead missing.
Below is a Picture of my F-16 missing the bulkhead.
SO I ALSO NEED THIS BULKHEAD!
Next are the improperly handled or assembled (damaged) components. Note that there was NO damage to the box that the jet and its contents was shipped in.
1. 1 large Bomb mishandled before or during packing.Stated this way due to where it was placed in the box for shipping.
Replacement is supposedly being made.
2. Left wing (Aileron live hinge) improperly installed or mishandled at facility. MULTIPLE PICTURES ADDED TO SHOW NO OTHER DAMAGE TO THE WING.
This is where the changing stories come in. First I was given the choice of sending wing back for repair or a replacement wing with a 10 week wait. Then the only thing I could do was send back for repair. email segments shown below. segmented to save space. Again these emails can be sent to you if you don't already have access to them from your staff.
This statement is quoted from a response email from Skymaster staff on November 7. "if customer don't want to fix,pls send us back wing,we can fix here.if customer ask for new wing,we are afraid delivery time is 10 weeks,maybe,because factory is very busy."
My response was to have a new wing made. The below statement is the response received on November 28.
"I just checked with production director.the wing can not be replaced with other wing,becuase the other new wing will not fit fuselage customer has. the wings are not interchangable.one wing fit one fuselage.So,pls ask customer to ship back wing asap."
Below shows no other damages
I bring this up as I received a phone call from the shipping company about a damaged shipment claim that I didn't place and they wanted to send someone out to inspect the box. As I stated earlier, there was NO damage to the box.
There were also other issues.
1. Both elevators:
Torque rods did not have flat spot machining done far enough for control horn to attach at correct point or torque rods not properly placed in elevators. An additional 20 mm of machining was needed to get control horn to correct position. (no photos taken prior to repair)
2. Improper fiberglass work on fuselage near left elevator (picture below)
CONCLUSION:
Please let me know how you want to remedy these issues.
Missing or damaged:
1. fuel tanks and hardware missing
2. light kit with control module missing
3. nose gear landing light missing
4. air cylinders for gear doors (all 3) missing
5. Bulkhead missing
6. Damaged bomb
7. live hinge on left wing not properly installed
Why have my missing parts still not shipped? I was told a couple of days of a month ago. Last week told 1-2 more weeks.
When will my missing parts really ship?
Why would I be given choice of repair or replacement of the left wing then told send for repair only? what's going on here?
I have the information on sending the left wing back. I have not sent it yet.
On a last note. You really need to update your manual as it is for the Gen 1 and there have been several updates to the kit and you need to update the manual to reflect those changes.
Thank you
12-09-2018, 12:27 PM
#3
Another big issue just found
Anton,
Another BIG ISSUE JUST FOUND!!!
Both WinGs:
As I had ordered the ordinance kit, I had requested the information as to where the support blocks are located in the wing. This is the document I received.
I followed the measurements exactly and when drilled for screws. THERE ARE NO BLOCKS IN THE WINGS FOR THE ORDINANCE TO ATTACH TO!!!
Another BIG ISSUE JUST FOUND!!!
Both WinGs:
As I had ordered the ordinance kit, I had requested the information as to where the support blocks are located in the wing. This is the document I received.
I followed the measurements exactly and when drilled for screws. THERE ARE NO BLOCKS IN THE WINGS FOR THE ORDINANCE TO ATTACH TO!!!
12-09-2018, 01:32 PM
#4
Hard points for pylons are not typically installed in my experience with SM. The sheet is a guide for you to install the dowels or whatever you desire in order to mount. However, if you paid for that service and it wasn’t accomplished then perhaps you can get a refund for that labor?
12-09-2018, 02:24 PM
#6
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
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All this is very dissappointing indeed and from my own experience NOT the way SM usually handles issues. I can only vouch for fantastic customer service since buying my first SM model back in 2006. Since then I have bought 14 different models from SM and have had various issues (some minor, some a bit more serious), but every single issue sorted out quickly and satisfactorily. My dealings have always been directly with John and very seldom with Anton.
One of these models were the same as yours, the 1/6th F-16 - a great flying model. However your appeal regarding the manual is absolutely true - the manual is so out-of-date, it is of virtually no use at all. I also have various models with wing mounted stores. The diagram is only for positioning. Even if there were hard points installed (between the upper and lower wing skins) I would rather install my own. (I use 19mm round hard wood dowels Hysoled to upper skin, installed and glued through the bottom skin - then painted and normally hidden by the pylon, once mounted). Just imagine drilling through the bottom skin and finding a hard point - now consider; did you possibly drill the hole on the very edge of the point, without knowing? I cannot risk that possibility and not knowing for sure that I have drilled in the center of the hard point.
Just my 2c.
One of these models were the same as yours, the 1/6th F-16 - a great flying model. However your appeal regarding the manual is absolutely true - the manual is so out-of-date, it is of virtually no use at all. I also have various models with wing mounted stores. The diagram is only for positioning. Even if there were hard points installed (between the upper and lower wing skins) I would rather install my own. (I use 19mm round hard wood dowels Hysoled to upper skin, installed and glued through the bottom skin - then painted and normally hidden by the pylon, once mounted). Just imagine drilling through the bottom skin and finding a hard point - now consider; did you possibly drill the hole on the very edge of the point, without knowing? I cannot risk that possibility and not knowing for sure that I have drilled in the center of the hard point.
Just my 2c.
12-09-2018, 02:31 PM
#7
Hard points in the wing
IF and that's a big if the hard points are there, then all 12 of them were installed in the wrong places as every one of my measurements were triple checked before drilling and every measurement was within .25 of a mm.
After the issues I've had to this point, I have zero confidence that they were pre installed as they were supposed to be.
After the issues I've had to this point, I have zero confidence that they were pre installed as they were supposed to be.
12-09-2018, 06:18 PM
#9
Been telling people for a while... none of this surprises me. I just got done building another skymaster plane for a customer and now after the last few I have done I am going to have to charge extra on builds for all skymaster planes. The amount of issues and rework is just so time consuming. A simple QC guy and some attention to detail would fix most of it.
12-09-2018, 06:27 PM
#10
Hard points for pylons are not typically installed in my experience with SM. The sheet is a guide for you to install the dowels or whatever you desire in order to mount. However, if you paid for that service and it wasn’t accomplished then perhaps you can get a refund for that labor?
Last edited by FenderBean; 12-09-2018 at 06:31 PM.
12-09-2018, 06:36 PM
#11
Well, whether it's blocks or dowels, they were supposed to be installed at the factory. I shouldn't have to be fixing or installing components that was supposed to be done before I receive it.
AGAIN, I DIDN'T GET WHAT I PAID FOR...
And I do appreciate the support. Thank you.
AGAIN, I DIDN'T GET WHAT I PAID FOR...
And I do appreciate the support. Thank you.
12-09-2018, 06:51 PM
#12
Well, whether it's blocks or dowels, they were supposed to be installed at the factory. I shouldn't have to be fixing or installing components that was supposed to be done before I receive it.
AGAIN, I DIDN'T GET WHAT I PAID FOR...
And I do appreciate the support. Thank you.
AGAIN, I DIDN'T GET WHAT I PAID FOR...
And I do appreciate the support. Thank you.
12-10-2018, 02:55 AM
#13
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
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Maybe the solution for SM and satisfying the customers requirements when under wing mounting are ordered - is for SM to actually do the installation and mounting. Leaving the customer to merely assemble the pylons and hang the stores from the wings, will then place the responsibility squarely on the SM factory to get it right and deliver what the customer has paid for. Until then, prepare yourself for some extra work and fixes.
12-10-2018, 03:36 AM
#14
Maybe the solution for SM and satisfying the customers requirements when under wing mounting are ordered - is for SM to actually do the installation and mounting. Leaving the customer to merely assemble the pylons and hang the stores from the wings, will then place the responsibility squarely on the SM factory to get it right and deliver what the customer has paid for. Until then, prepare yourself for some extra work and fixes.
12-10-2018, 06:22 PM
#19
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: -, CHINA
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Since you ordered kit from dealer,some information was probably misunderstood.Pls send mail to [email protected] We work together to find satisfactory solution.
Best regards
John
12-11-2018, 09:53 AM
#21
My Feedback: (11)
Xtreme F4 having similar issues
I feel your pain. I have been working with my vendor and also had sent two unanswered emails to Skymaster. My F4 showed up in September and I am still waiting on parts. I was told they shipped on 12/3/18 and I have not received them. I did ask for tracking from my vendor last night. Here is the list of issues and photos from my F4. The first photo is a pic of what I expected to receive. Each photo below has description of issues. I hope Anton and Skymaster can fix their QC,
Thank you for looking.
Jeff
This is stock photo from Skymaster and what I thought I was getting.
Gear pin end snapped when I removed it. Trying to get new part.
Paint markings are way off. They had Navy pilots on Canopy. I have since removed them. Going to repaint plane as needed.
Missing parts for exhaust cones
Hatch does not line up and has 1/8" gap
Sloppy glue job and glued door to strut.
Gear pushing up on wingskin top. This is on both wings.
Missing retaining nut where nose attaches to fuselage.
Thank you for looking.
Jeff
This is stock photo from Skymaster and what I thought I was getting.
Gear pin end snapped when I removed it. Trying to get new part.
Paint markings are way off. They had Navy pilots on Canopy. I have since removed them. Going to repaint plane as needed.
Missing parts for exhaust cones
Hatch does not line up and has 1/8" gap
Sloppy glue job and glued door to strut.
Gear pushing up on wingskin top. This is on both wings.
Missing retaining nut where nose attaches to fuselage.
12-11-2018, 05:48 PM
#25
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: -, CHINA
Posts: 96
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Hi Jeff
Replacement pars shipped out two weeks ago.because it is xmas shipping season,shipping is slower than normal times.it is now in US.You will receive parcel sooner.
Best regards
John
Replacement pars shipped out two weeks ago.because it is xmas shipping season,shipping is slower than normal times.it is now in US.You will receive parcel sooner.
Best regards
John