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Help needed with P60

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Old 02-22-2019, 10:16 PM
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CARS II
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Default Help needed with P60

This engine came from a friend with 4 hrs, it has not been use for about 4 to 7 years ( was in a Tamjets A4 ) it is in my Reaction now, before the maiden it was only running up to 149K, then, I reset the throttle PID loop, then all was good for 6 flights, today flight number 5 was good, came back down, did a hot fuel up and went right back out for flight number six, during this flight I noticed a bit of lack of power during a go around then, landed, taxi back, hot fueld up and went right back out for flight number 7, during the TO run I noticed the lack of speed, stopped to TO run and taxi back to the pits I checked the max rpms, I was getting only 90K with a fuel pump voltage of 1.1v at max rpms, I let it run on idle some more, about two minutes later, it quit with a low rpms massage, I try to start it and it didn't, second problem, I think the starter O ring is worn out, I can change that, I got a low rpms massage during the start sequence.

In short, it was running good and now it doesn't go to max rpms, the fuel filter was checked before flight 5.

Any suggestions?

Last edited by CARS II; 02-23-2019 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:46 PM
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sysiek
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battery,fuel filter,pump this is the first to check.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:40 PM
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I found this thread for the O ring replacement.

JetCat P60 Oring Replacement DIY
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:46 PM
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Sebastian, the batt was fully charged ( 5K mah for the ECU ) the fuel filter was checked before flight #5 but will check again, the pump is the main suspect here.

I noticed that the started O ring is worn out, I will start with that, it maybe rubbing with the compressor nut.

Thanks for the suggestion .

Last edited by CARS II; 02-22-2019 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:59 PM
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Dave Wilshere
 
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Fuel pump most likely, but have you done a system reset and then checked temp calibration. Do a learn RC and try again.

Dave
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:19 AM
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CARS II
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System reset = Learn rc? How do you do a temp calibration on the JC?
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:22 AM
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This happened today after two flights, do you think the starter O ring is touching the compressor nut?
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:26 AM
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Last time I run a JC was about 13 years ago, I don't remember most of all that I knew about them.
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:40 AM
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i would swap out a fuel pump and try it.
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Old 02-23-2019, 07:22 AM
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I once had a piece of glue come loose from the baffle inside the fuel tank. It blocked the fuel line. After it caused the flameout, I realized it was not acting right when I took off.

Also, on another jet, the vent got partially plugged and the engine would not spool up to full RPM. But if staying on asphalt, I would figure that a blocked vent is probably not the problem as it was running O.K. initially. A P-60 vent is usually small I.D. If you are not on asphalt, I would check the vent.

However, the failure to start is also classic for a low/bad battery condition. I would try a different fully charged battery. What battery type are you using? You can charge NiMH's and get false peaks. But I am assuming you are using LiFe or LiPo for the ECU cause NiMH typically just can't consistently deliver the current needed for a good start.

Not sure what the PV range is on a P-60. A PV 1.1 at 90K R seems low. If a different fully charged battery gives the same result and fuel system is not blocked, then pump is probably failing. But, if the filter is located in the right place (i.e. after the pump) and pump is going bad you probably also should be seeing debris in the filter. For me, it is a good idea to carry a spare pump for turbines that have external pumps. They come in handy for testing as well as preclude a lot of delay time while waiting for UPS and back orders, etc.

Just some thoughts to eliminate a few assumptions.
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Old 02-23-2019, 10:36 AM
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If the o ring was dragging the starter it would explode running at 160,000!

same as learn rc. Hold down select menu and power up. Hold the button and ignore release to learn rc, ignore release to calibrate temp and after a total approx 40 sec it will say release to reset system. It will wipe all stored figures back to factory.
Do a learn rc and try again
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:45 AM
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Dave: Is the reset common to all JetCats?
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:02 PM
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Thanks Dave, I'll do that, I'm going to change the starter O ring first, it is worn out for sure.
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Old 02-23-2019, 02:45 PM
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Dave Wilshere
 
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Originally Posted by Len Todd View Post
Dave: Is the reset common to all JetCats?
Yes. Every last one. Sometimes changing instals this should be done to clear all stored data from the previous installation as tank fuel line drag varies so much
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Old 02-23-2019, 03:00 PM
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Thanks for the info Dave. I did NOT know the reset procedure. I put it in the Jetcat file. Ya learn somethin' new every day! Got to love this hobby!
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Old 02-23-2019, 09:25 PM
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If you are using a Jetcat fuel filter, clean it with brake cleaner of electronic cleaner. You cannot visually determine the ccondition of a Jetcat filter. It may be plugged and you will never see it. Also, check fuel for algae that will plug the filter.
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Old 02-23-2019, 09:33 PM
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This could be bad electovalve,have the problem before ,and sometimes hey installed reversed this my cost a problem after some time with small turbine, with big one they donít work right away. Just noticed on your pictures the arrows are not matching is the information correct and the fuel flow goes the right decision just checking Iím not able to follow up your fuel lines.

Last edited by sysiek; 02-23-2019 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 02-23-2019, 10:39 PM
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Guys, read the post, he says pump voltage is 1.1v at 90,000, which is about right, if the rpm was limited by a really high pump figure, filter blockage might be the thing...but not on this one. He also says he cleaned/checked the filter!

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Old 02-24-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Wilshere View Post
Guys, read the post, he says pump voltage is 1.1v at 90,000, which is about right, if the rpm was limited by a really high pump figure, filter blockage might be the thing...but not on this one. He also says he cleaned/checked the filter!

Dave
I agree.
I suspect it has something to do with the ECU reacting to fuel pressure changes during the hot fueling. I would suggest resetting the throttle PID loop and trying a couple of flights without hot fueling.
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Old 02-24-2019, 03:37 PM
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Thank you Dave.

Kevin, I was thinking the same, I will replace the starter O ring first, I will reset the ECU back to factory parameters then I will give it a test run at home, if all is good then a flight will fallow.
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Old 02-24-2019, 03:50 PM
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Thank you all for the suggestions, I will report as soon as possible.
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Old 02-24-2019, 03:50 PM
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Thank you all for the suggestions, I will report back as soon as possible.
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:07 PM
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I finally had time to remove the P60 from the Reaction, this is what I found, not looking good at all, I've send an email to George to advice me of the needed repairs and the bill of course.

The turbine wheel looks just fine from here, it is turning with just a light push with the finger and for the normal amouny of time it is supposed to, the O ring assembly is basically destroyed, I don't think there is an O ring in there any more, the compressor, well, it also will have to be replaced, looks like the hot fueling had nothing to do with the engine not performing to specs.

I had all the intentions to buy this engine from my friend, I supposed I bought it now, oh well, the thing is, I just brought a nearly new K80 for my Turbinator and It will be some time before this engine gets fix to fly the Reaction, I AM SOOOOOOOO, PISSSSŖSSSSSSED at myself right now for letting this happen, grrrrrrrrr..........

I have to acknowledge that I didn't loose the jet because of this problem but I need another drink just about now

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Old 02-28-2019, 07:29 PM
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Do you have any idea how that happened? Where you running a FOD screen?
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:51 PM
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Look at the starter housing, right where the O ring is in, from what I can see, something got loose in there, I will assume because the O ring is completely gone, that metal part is not supposed to hand there.
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