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World Jet Masters in China

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Old 10-31-2019, 10:54 AM
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David Gladwin
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Default World Jet Masters in China

Any feedback ?
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Old 10-31-2019, 11:38 AM
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Dave Wilshere
 
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I read there were radio problems! There is a thread on Powerbox’s support explaining that the PB Core didn’t suffer like some brands.
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Old 10-31-2019, 11:54 AM
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I didn’t even know the event was on until I saw some YouTube videos.
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Old 10-31-2019, 06:58 PM
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Probably ultrasonic weapon testing.... we will find out in the next 5 years I hear. “Just sayin”
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Old 10-31-2019, 08:43 PM
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Apparently a wonderful organization. The Russian team has won 1 & 2 place in both categories. Also Vitaly came in second after a young pilot (Vasily) won the first place in the big class.


https://vk.com/album-37882923_270143557

But they had to wait till the last day to find out, there are some new rules that don't define the weight of static vs flight points till the last minute. Something about evaluating all contestants first to see if the static competition has high level of competition or not. If yes, then they put more weight on flying. But that's not happening till the last day.

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Old 11-01-2019, 02:04 AM
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Very little coverage of the event, thank you for posting.
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Old 11-01-2019, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Wilshere View Post
I read there were radio problems! There is a thread on Powerbox’s support explaining that the PB Core didn’t suffer like some brands.
Can you post a link to that thread? I did t see it in the Core radio forum...
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Old 11-01-2019, 05:31 AM
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forum.powerbox-systems.com/forum/index.php?thread/6551-powerbox-core-bei-der-jet-wm-unter-extremen-bedingungen-ein-erfahrungsbericht/

They are talking of lost frames and holds. Richard is replying saying about the difference between Core and other systems
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:16 AM
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Thank you
interesting reading
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:25 AM
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Default Core RF

Originally Posted by Dave Wilshere View Post
forum.powerbox-systems.com/forum/index.php?thread/6551-powerbox-core-bei-der-jet-wm-unter-extremen-bedingungen-ein-erfahrungsbericht/

They are talking of lost frames and holds. Richard is replying saying about the difference between Core and other systems
e

That comes as no surprise, the strength of the Weatronics Rf section, which is what Core is derived from, is one of the prime reasons I have been such a staunch advocate of the Weatronic system since its inception.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:47 AM
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1400 lost frames seems a lot. really a lot!!!
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by gapellegrini View Post
1400 lost frames seems a lot. really a lot!!!
yes and no.
Its all relative. A lost frame really doesn’t mean much by itself or if/when spaced far away from the previous or next lost frame.
Especially when you think about the total numbers of frames sent in a flight (or frames per minute or per second).
Its encouraging that no one suffered a fail safe across the 3 brands.
Honestly, IMHO, the only way to compare radio brands for issues ( or lack of issues) such as this is in a lab environment with the appropriate setup and equipment.

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Old 11-01-2019, 10:06 AM
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Which brands had lockouts?

which brands had no lockouts?
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:13 AM
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I will paraphrase a translation of the Jet World Masters (JWM) report from the PowerBox (PB) team member:
Reports of radio interference started on day one or two of the event. PB team was not aware of any interference as they were too busy fueling, charging and flying.
The clamor increased when Vitaly Robertus had trouble landing his practice jet due to interference, which ended up damaging the model.
Competitors were told to monitor Fail Safe and Lost Frames. PB team member says at home he typically sees 1 to 150 Lost Frames, at the JWM his lost frames were between 750 and 1400.
Under pressure from the competitors, the event organizer summoned (very quickly) a vehicle with a spectrum analyzer. As a result of the analysis, the event security monitoring cameras were shut down. Afterwards, Lost Frames went down to 80 up to a maximum of 600 each flight. Despite the improvement, multiple competitors with various radio systems experienced interference. Maneuvers were allowed to be re-flown in these cases.
There was no correlation between the interference and distance. It happened mostly at a range between 100m and 300m.
PB team logged 40 flights during the event without any radio issues, no Fail Safes. They are obviously very happy about this and consider the experience good first-hand evidence of the Core radio's resiliency in a challenging RF environment.

My comment: The original post did not point fingers, or disparage by name, any of the other radio systems at the event.

I'm just the translator...
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:22 AM
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..
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Old 11-03-2019, 03:41 AM
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Who dares to fly with expensive models at such events in the future unless organizer can more or less guarantee such interference sources do not exist on the site?
But more important, I would not dare to be spectator at such event unless my safety can be guaranteed against such interference source.
I wonder if pilots that used radio with "900" MHz backup transmission also had interference at this event?
I hope they can figure out what the real cause for the interference was so maybe radio manufacturer can start to think what can be done so radios can withstand such interferene. It obviously is possible since one radio brand worked OK despite the interference. They talked about radio controlled cameras at the site and when they where shut off the interference stopped. Maybe they can get samples of some such cameras to test in labs? It is so much various signals in the air these days it is almost a miracle our radio controls work as good as they do.
Maybe the radio controlled cameras had higher then allowed (by standards/aprrovals) output power?

/Bo

Last edited by bem; 11-03-2019 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:26 AM
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It is a video below, if one turn on Subtitles and select a language from the list avaliable You can understand, You can se translation from Russian and they talk some about the interference during Jet World Masters 2019. One person in the video mention it was two cameras and one Wifi network used by the police that caused the interference. Just watch the video with proper Subtitle settings selected.
/Bo


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Old 11-07-2019, 05:35 AM
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Here is the official XL t shirt from the event. I wear an XL and it is tight on me. I guess the Chinese are on average smaller than Americans..........But I cans also stand to loose a few pounds.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bem View Post
Who dares to fly with expensive models at such events in the future unless organizer can more or less guarantee such interference sources do not exist on the site?
But more important, I would not dare to be spectator at such event unless my safety can be guaranteed against such interference source.
I wonder if pilots that used radio with "900" MHz backup transmission also had interference at this event?
I hope they can figure out what the real cause for the interference was so maybe radio manufacturer can start to think what can be done so radios can withstand such interferene. It obviously is possible since one radio brand worked OK despite the interference. They talked about radio controlled cameras at the site and when they where shut off the interference stopped. Maybe they can get samples of some such cameras to test in labs? It is so much various signals in the air these days it is almost a miracle our radio controls work as good as they do.
Maybe the radio controlled cameras had higher then allowed (by standards/aprrovals) output power?

/Bo
Bo
There are tests that can be run in the lab to help measure “immunity” to external signals and the ability to maintain a data connection
The newest European RED (Radio Equipment Directive) specifies these types of tests

However, the bands in which these devices operate have become “The Wild West” simply due to the number of devices “sharing” the allocated spectrum.

When 2.4GHz became “overcrowded” people then moved to 5.8GHz
Now 5.8GHz has become “overcrowded” and there are ongoing discussions to open up another band around 6.5GHz !

Years ago when I first started I flew 72MHz but after a few “pin” accidents, moved to 53MHz and flew safely for years.

I do kind of laugh when people discuss “range tests” or “which radio has better RF performance” based on very limited lab data or measurements . But I understand it’s more for marketing than technical reasons.
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Old 11-07-2019, 10:08 AM
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Robertus uses Futaba 18MZ WC....
The last letters bother me ...
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:57 PM
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WC comes from their helicopter success...
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Growler84 View Post
I will paraphrase a translation of the Jet World Masters (JWM) report from the PowerBox (PB) team member:
Reports of radio interference started on day one or two of the event. PB team was not aware of any interference as they were too busy fueling, charging and flying.
The clamor increased when Vitaly Robertus had trouble landing his practice jet due to interference, which ended up damaging the model.
Competitors were told to monitor Fail Safe and Lost Frames. PB team member says at home he typically sees 1 to 150 Lost Frames, at the JWM his lost frames were between 750 and 1400.
Under pressure from the competitors, the event organizer summoned (very quickly) a vehicle with a spectrum analyzer. As a result of the analysis, the event security monitoring cameras were shut down. Afterwards, Lost Frames went down to 80 up to a maximum of 600 each flight. Despite the improvement, multiple competitors with various radio systems experienced interference. Maneuvers were allowed to be re-flown in these cases.
There was no correlation between the interference and distance. It happened mostly at a range between 100m and 300m.
PB team logged 40 flights during the event without any radio issues, no Fail Safes. They are obviously very happy about this and consider the experience good first-hand evidence of the Core radio's resiliency in a challenging RF environment.

My comment: The original post did not point fingers, or disparage by name, any of the other radio systems at the event.

I'm just the translator...
Cameras probably have a WiFi antenna for remote access and possibly? streaming. I've personally had interference issues with my goPro and 18MZ when connected to the camera from my iphone via WiFi. If this turns out to be the case, surprising they did not know of the implications ahead of time. Anyway - who knows.
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