RAM Turbine Problems
05-11-2002, 06:30 PM
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RAM Turbine Problems
Originally posted by AirRayInc.Com
damn, missed my bus!
Ray
Take BART
**this humorous intermission was brought to by ........ no body. no one, the null set, www.noperson.com** we(nobody that is) now returns you to your regular thread....... ->
damn, missed my bus!
Ray
Take BART
**this humorous intermission was brought to by ........ no body. no one, the null set, www.noperson.com** we(nobody that is) now returns you to your regular thread....... ->
05-11-2002, 07:27 PM
#78
seems like the last one aboard Titanic has jumped off
Seems like the last one aboard Titanic has just jumped off.
Pretty scary when you hear Tony has resigned. I would like to hear that story. I think my investment is squandering. What I am trying to convey is: will there be any guarantees that we wont be talking the same smack about JC down the road when everyone has decided to go with brand Y? Are we doing ourselves any good by banning together to nail the cauffin on RAM? Do we really only want one turbine company? Is there something we could do in a positive way? When everyone is flying RAM, they are the best with no problems, then when we all eventually switch to JC we talk about how RAM sucked. I will probably buy a JC P160 when they finally come out, but if RAM came out with a 35 lb turbine, I would buy it. I want to buy a JC just to see what everyone is talking about. I probably wouldnt know the difference, since my personal experiences with RAM are great. I just recently bought a BV F100 and I am still undecided what I will power it with. I think most F100 have AMT's. I would much rather buy a turbine that is built, sold and serviced in USA. I think alot of Rams problems came after the autostart and 500. I never missed a start on my 750F . Why doesnt AMT have autostart? Make the 500 manual start and I bet 90% of problems go away. I personally feel that if RAM test ran ever motor complete as a unit, that they would of eleviated a majority of their problems.
Scott Marr
Pretty scary when you hear Tony has resigned. I would like to hear that story. I think my investment is squandering. What I am trying to convey is: will there be any guarantees that we wont be talking the same smack about JC down the road when everyone has decided to go with brand Y? Are we doing ourselves any good by banning together to nail the cauffin on RAM? Do we really only want one turbine company? Is there something we could do in a positive way? When everyone is flying RAM, they are the best with no problems, then when we all eventually switch to JC we talk about how RAM sucked. I will probably buy a JC P160 when they finally come out, but if RAM came out with a 35 lb turbine, I would buy it. I want to buy a JC just to see what everyone is talking about. I probably wouldnt know the difference, since my personal experiences with RAM are great. I just recently bought a BV F100 and I am still undecided what I will power it with. I think most F100 have AMT's. I would much rather buy a turbine that is built, sold and serviced in USA. I think alot of Rams problems came after the autostart and 500. I never missed a start on my 750F . Why doesnt AMT have autostart? Make the 500 manual start and I bet 90% of problems go away. I personally feel that if RAM test ran ever motor complete as a unit, that they would of eleviated a majority of their problems.
Scott Marr
05-11-2002, 07:34 PM
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RAM Turbine Problems
Scott,
I understand your concerns believe me.. but the proof is in the pudding so to speak. I've watched Jason Somes, Torrey Ward, and Rob Janigar (sp?) put flight after flight after flight on their airplanes at each and ever meet I've attended in the past 2 years. These guys put more flights on their engines in one event than many in an entire year.
When I was looking to get a turbine, I made my choice based upon a couple things, but the primary was that I saw these guys fly, fuel, fly, fuel, fly.. That makes an statement that's hard to argue with..
Doug Cronkhite
Team JR
I understand your concerns believe me.. but the proof is in the pudding so to speak. I've watched Jason Somes, Torrey Ward, and Rob Janigar (sp?) put flight after flight after flight on their airplanes at each and ever meet I've attended in the past 2 years. These guys put more flights on their engines in one event than many in an entire year.
When I was looking to get a turbine, I made my choice based upon a couple things, but the primary was that I saw these guys fly, fuel, fly, fuel, fly.. That makes an statement that's hard to argue with..
Doug Cronkhite
Team JR
05-11-2002, 08:19 PM
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last year we had a similar thread on a discussion forum here in europe.
fact is:
i have seen all brands of turbine fail:
endless calls with amt, cause of malfunction, flameout of simjet, behotecs or lost blades of JC. most of them have the same supplier of turbine wheels, bearings a.s.o., combustion chamber design of the same origin, this explains why it is an illusion that there will be a turbine manufacturer with a "perfect" turbine on the market in the near future.
anybody who believes in that, is a dreamer.
cant hear "my turbine worked flawless" anymore.
in two and a half year of turbíne flying my personal list of turbine damage is:
2 shot ECU (my own fault)
1 suspect fuel pump
1 turbine wheel (own fault due to overrev)
1 broken compressor wheel (dirteater
)
1 worn NGV
1 turbine wheel (one lost blade)
1 destroyed bearing (own fault due to a selfmade handheld electric starter)
1 heat worn turbine case
(however you have to consider that our turbines always work and are setup at their limits, revs as well as temp).
mec
fact is:
i have seen all brands of turbine fail:
endless calls with amt, cause of malfunction, flameout of simjet, behotecs or lost blades of JC. most of them have the same supplier of turbine wheels, bearings a.s.o., combustion chamber design of the same origin, this explains why it is an illusion that there will be a turbine manufacturer with a "perfect" turbine on the market in the near future.
anybody who believes in that, is a dreamer.
cant hear "my turbine worked flawless" anymore.
in two and a half year of turbíne flying my personal list of turbine damage is:
2 shot ECU (my own fault)
1 suspect fuel pump
1 turbine wheel (own fault due to overrev)
1 broken compressor wheel (dirteater
)1 worn NGV
1 turbine wheel (one lost blade)
1 destroyed bearing (own fault due to a selfmade handheld electric starter)
1 heat worn turbine case
(however you have to consider that our turbines always work and are setup at their limits, revs as well as temp).
mec
05-11-2002, 09:18 PM
#81
RAM Turbine Problems
Secret Problems?
Is that possible? I suppose so, but it doesn't seem altogether likely because of the facts that DCronkite stated--the fellas at the events are just flying, flying, flying. I've never used JetCat, but from what I can see, they seem to be a fine product. People have pointed out that there are far more similarities within the brands than differences. The differences people are talking about seem to be service committment and general honesty.
Seems like most of the guys in here have a general good-will attitude toward all of the turbine manufacturers, regardless of which brand they fly. I don't think anybody really wants to see one of them go under. I know I don't. People shouldn't be chastised or vilified for telling their story in here as long as they're being fair and honest about it.
Is that possible? I suppose so, but it doesn't seem altogether likely because of the facts that DCronkite stated--the fellas at the events are just flying, flying, flying. I've never used JetCat, but from what I can see, they seem to be a fine product. People have pointed out that there are far more similarities within the brands than differences. The differences people are talking about seem to be service committment and general honesty.
Seems like most of the guys in here have a general good-will attitude toward all of the turbine manufacturers, regardless of which brand they fly. I don't think anybody really wants to see one of them go under. I know I don't. People shouldn't be chastised or vilified for telling their story in here as long as they're being fair and honest about it.
05-11-2002, 09:39 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by sideshow
[B]Brian, your brevity is appreciated. Insinuating that Gordon needs to grow up because he is bashing RAM is wrong.
What makes you think I was referring to Gordon? I was not. In fact, I admire his posts for their dispassionate narrative of the facts. I think we will all acknowledge that turbines are not as simple as .40 size glow engines and can have problems.
My own RAMs had a few problems that were quickly solved. My gripe is with those who fling about wild accusations of dishonesty and shoddiness after one negative experience. Those who do so, do need to grow up.
[B]Brian, your brevity is appreciated. Insinuating that Gordon needs to grow up because he is bashing RAM is wrong.
What makes you think I was referring to Gordon? I was not. In fact, I admire his posts for their dispassionate narrative of the facts. I think we will all acknowledge that turbines are not as simple as .40 size glow engines and can have problems.
My own RAMs had a few problems that were quickly solved. My gripe is with those who fling about wild accusations of dishonesty and shoddiness after one negative experience. Those who do so, do need to grow up.
05-12-2002, 12:28 AM
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Please note that this post is sent tongue in cheek and with a great deal of realistic humor applied,
All the manufacturers have problems, as soon as you have sold one engine to a customer you have a problem, IE the customer, let me give you a few examples:-
one customer phones us to say that he was having problems with his engine getting hot and shutting down just after achieving idle, he had done several starts and the engine was ramping up to about 850c on start up then stopping.
Turns out he had made a tail pipe for the engine that fitted directly over the engine exhaust, was about 3 feet long and necked down to just on 2 inches in diameter, gee must be an engine problem.
Another one phoned in to say he had had a rear bearing failure, the engine had been running fine with about 30 runs on it, then he read a post on one of the lists about having to much oil in the fuel mix and this was causing bearing skate, (this can happen) the post was related to another manufacturers engine, but the customer decided that in his engine, although it was running fine with no problems, he would leave the oil out completely as full size turbines don't use oil in the fuel do they, yep another engine problem.
What about the guy who decided to bench run his engine before installation into the airframe, good idea, get used to the engine and its characteristics, but he had already installed the ecu, pump and batteries in the airframe, so he decided to set the engine up on the bench and run it on gas only, using the gas bottle tap to regulate the speed of the engine, he actually managed 15 starts and runs before the bearings failed, yes you got it another problem with the engine.
This one takes the biscuit, customer crashed his bird, and damaged the compressor, Chipped blade, so he decided to strip the front of the engine and cut the tips off the rest of the blades with a pair of side cutters, seemingly it looked great, he re assembled the engine and ran it, this one was sent back to us for warranty with a very distasteful letter blaming the subsequent engine failure as a factory engine problem, yes he was right, our factory should have never let him have an engine, unless it was driven by an elastic band.
Don't get me wrong, if an engine is not fully developed and tested then it should not be released to the market, and in saying this I mean both the mechanical and electronics package, you can have the best mechanics in the world and have them let down by a poor electronics package, you can have the best electronics in the world and have them killed by a poor engine, it is up to the manufacturer to ensure the product is sound and tested, the one thing a manufacturer can not account for is the customer factor.
If any other manufacturers read this please, if you have a story then post it to the forum, it could give us all a laugh and it will show that some of these problems are not really our fault:-)
BRG,
Chris at TJT.
All the manufacturers have problems, as soon as you have sold one engine to a customer you have a problem, IE the customer, let me give you a few examples:-
one customer phones us to say that he was having problems with his engine getting hot and shutting down just after achieving idle, he had done several starts and the engine was ramping up to about 850c on start up then stopping.
Turns out he had made a tail pipe for the engine that fitted directly over the engine exhaust, was about 3 feet long and necked down to just on 2 inches in diameter, gee must be an engine problem.
Another one phoned in to say he had had a rear bearing failure, the engine had been running fine with about 30 runs on it, then he read a post on one of the lists about having to much oil in the fuel mix and this was causing bearing skate, (this can happen) the post was related to another manufacturers engine, but the customer decided that in his engine, although it was running fine with no problems, he would leave the oil out completely as full size turbines don't use oil in the fuel do they, yep another engine problem.
What about the guy who decided to bench run his engine before installation into the airframe, good idea, get used to the engine and its characteristics, but he had already installed the ecu, pump and batteries in the airframe, so he decided to set the engine up on the bench and run it on gas only, using the gas bottle tap to regulate the speed of the engine, he actually managed 15 starts and runs before the bearings failed, yes you got it another problem with the engine.
This one takes the biscuit, customer crashed his bird, and damaged the compressor, Chipped blade, so he decided to strip the front of the engine and cut the tips off the rest of the blades with a pair of side cutters, seemingly it looked great, he re assembled the engine and ran it, this one was sent back to us for warranty with a very distasteful letter blaming the subsequent engine failure as a factory engine problem, yes he was right, our factory should have never let him have an engine, unless it was driven by an elastic band.
Don't get me wrong, if an engine is not fully developed and tested then it should not be released to the market, and in saying this I mean both the mechanical and electronics package, you can have the best mechanics in the world and have them let down by a poor electronics package, you can have the best electronics in the world and have them killed by a poor engine, it is up to the manufacturer to ensure the product is sound and tested, the one thing a manufacturer can not account for is the customer factor.
If any other manufacturers read this please, if you have a story then post it to the forum, it could give us all a laugh and it will show that some of these problems are not really our fault:-)
BRG,
Chris at TJT.
05-12-2002, 12:49 AM
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Chris,
Obviously your instructions are seriously lacking for your customers to be having such a hard time installing, and operating your engines correctly!
See it IS the manufacturers fault!
DR
Obviously your instructions are seriously lacking for your customers to be having such a hard time installing, and operating your engines correctly!
See it IS the manufacturers fault!
DR
05-12-2002, 12:54 AM
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Hi David,
I had a feeling you would respond to this one, in fact our manual is very comprehensive, somtimes it is just not our fault, if you would like a copy of our manual, please send me a mail at [email protected] and will will by return send a copy to you over the net.
BRG,
Chris.
I had a feeling you would respond to this one, in fact our manual is very comprehensive, somtimes it is just not our fault, if you would like a copy of our manual, please send me a mail at [email protected] and will will by return send a copy to you over the net.
BRG,
Chris.
05-12-2002, 01:41 AM
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Chris.....it was a joke.....get it?
I am sure there are a lot of user created problems but I am also sure that there are some design/quality control problems out there as well. The same problem happening over and over and over with multiple users across the country/world indicates a flaw. 2 years ago if you went to a jet event here in the US you saw at least 2 bearing failures. User created? I don't think so.
David Reid
I am sure there are a lot of user created problems but I am also sure that there are some design/quality control problems out there as well. The same problem happening over and over and over with multiple users across the country/world indicates a flaw. 2 years ago if you went to a jet event here in the US you saw at least 2 bearing failures. User created? I don't think so.
David Reid
05-12-2002, 03:01 AM
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Hi Mark,
Who is a lucky boy then, trust you are enjoying yourself?. if so then what the hell are you doing on this forum:-)
Get back to the family and have some real fun,
Hey did the work project get airbourne?.
BRG,
Chris.
Who is a lucky boy then, trust you are enjoying yourself?. if so then what the hell are you doing on this forum:-)
Get back to the family and have some real fun,
Hey did the work project get airbourne?.
BRG,
Chris.
05-12-2002, 03:05 AM
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RAM Turbine Problems
The hybrid Sounding Rocket (HYSR) was supposed to fly this morning at Wallops Island VA. I watched the news and no news. It is not big enough to make the national news unless something screwed up and killed someone, so no news is good news. Everyone in the condo is asleep but me!!!!
05-12-2002, 09:27 AM
#93
RAM Turbine Problems
Chris,
Please, please, tell me the stories you relate are pure fiction, extracted from a Harry Potter book, with the sole intention of amusing us ! They cannot, must not, possibly be true or are they ?
BRG,
David.
Or have I been suckered in !!!?
Please, please, tell me the stories you relate are pure fiction, extracted from a Harry Potter book, with the sole intention of amusing us ! They cannot, must not, possibly be true or are they ?
BRG,
David.
Or have I been suckered in !!!?
05-12-2002, 10:10 AM
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Hi David,
These are all true even the one about me stopping smoking, I heard a corker on another list the other day about a well respected modeler who warms his gas bottle up in the exhaust of a running engine, to raise the pressure in the bottle . yep that will do it, I want to hear the explanation at the board of enquiry after the explosion.
BRG,
Chris.
These are all true even the one about me stopping smoking, I heard a corker on another list the other day about a well respected modeler who warms his gas bottle up in the exhaust of a running engine, to raise the pressure in the bottle . yep that will do it, I want to hear the explanation at the board of enquiry after the explosion.
BRG,
Chris.
05-12-2002, 12:09 PM
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No comments on this one as I have been Flying Jets now for 3 straight years HARDCORE and never ever any problems with the exception of my Crashes and own stupidity.
So here's what i'd like to offer:
Please E-mail with a selling price of your CRAPPY RAMS as I would love to get me a couple more that I'm sure I would get at a giveaway price since they are the worst thing thats ever happened in the Jets Arena.
Thank you all for giving me the oppt to take this monsters and nightmares off your hands.
Johnny Hernandez
My only Repp is my pocket !!!!
So here's what i'd like to offer:
Please E-mail with a selling price of your CRAPPY RAMS as I would love to get me a couple more that I'm sure I would get at a giveaway price since they are the worst thing thats ever happened in the Jets Arena.
Thank you all for giving me the oppt to take this monsters and nightmares off your hands.
Johnny Hernandez
My only Repp is my pocket !!!!
05-12-2002, 01:23 PM
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HUH?
I'M SURE SELLING THESE AT A GIVE AWAY PRICE IS NOT A SOLUTION FOR ANYONE .......A FIX IS!
YEA...I'LL BY SOMETHING NEW AND JUST GIVE IT AWAY CAUSE IT DOESNT WORK , YEA RIGHT. MONEY DOES NOT GROW ON TREES FOR MOST OF US.
I CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.......
YEA...I'LL BY SOMETHING NEW AND JUST GIVE IT AWAY CAUSE IT DOESNT WORK , YEA RIGHT. MONEY DOES NOT GROW ON TREES FOR MOST OF US.
I CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.......
05-12-2002, 01:37 PM
#97
Re: secret problems
Originally posted by jetpilot
Would there be a chance that some of the new JC owners have been silent about there problems?
Would there be a chance that some of the new JC owners have been silent about there problems?
I'm afraid not. JetCat works and works well. It is a superior product. I've never had a problem with mine. I'd be the first to complain if it turned out to be a lemon.
In the past I've been accused of bashing other turbines just because I spoke so highly about JetCat. This is nonsense. I was further criticized for suggesting that new turbine buyers speak to non-reps about their turbine experiences to get the real story on who makes the best turbines. This is how I learned that AMT and JetCat were the leaders in reliability. I never once suggested that turbine reps where somehow bad people to be avoided, that's ridiculous, but believe it or not some people turned everything around and accused me of that too. Incredible.
I bought the JetCat because it not only had the reputation as a near bullet proof engine but because of the autostart feature. It was the best decision I could have made.
My recommendation to anyone looking for a new turbine is to go with JetCat or AMT. You will not be dissapointed.
05-12-2002, 01:40 PM
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I know a guy, the that was test running a turbine and
it failed. Broke a bearing, or sheed a blade, I don't know
what happend.
He just took it, ECU, battery, everything and through it in the trash can,
just chuncked it.
Is that too funny or what ?
Eddie Weeks
it failed. Broke a bearing, or sheed a blade, I don't know
what happend.
He just took it, ECU, battery, everything and through it in the trash can,
just chuncked it.
Is that too funny or what ?
Eddie Weeks
05-12-2002, 01:45 PM
#99
Rams, Rams, get um while their hot
Originally posted by Jetflyer 24
[
So here's what i'd like to offer:
Please E-mail with a selling price of your CRAPPY RAMS as I would love to get me a couple more that I'm sure I would get at a giveaway price since they are the worst thing thats ever happened in the Jets Arena.
Thank you all for giving me the oppt to take this monsters and nightmares off your hands.
Johnny Hernandez
My only Repp is my pocket !!!! [/B]
[
So here's what i'd like to offer:
Please E-mail with a selling price of your CRAPPY RAMS as I would love to get me a couple more that I'm sure I would get at a giveaway price since they are the worst thing thats ever happened in the Jets Arena.
Thank you all for giving me the oppt to take this monsters and nightmares off your hands.
Johnny Hernandez
My only Repp is my pocket !!!! [/B]
"Psychic" for hire. First reading free.
I see your in box about to become filled with request to purchase rams.
Nothing stopping you but a thin piece of material between your hand and you wallet.
05-12-2002, 01:56 PM
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Wow! 90 some post and counting. Before Mother's day activities get in full swing (that could be another thread!!!) here are my two cents. I see nothing wrong with Gordon's original post, that's the way he sees it, fine. I have 4 RAMs and yesterday the bearings were shot in the 750 plus. I could blame everyone's notorius couple (Albert and Rei) but guess what, I had 51 more flights than the manual calls for before sending it in for a check up and bearing change. Not bad, plenty of margin, but decided to ignore the instructions, not a smart move. Lucky me that I had plenty of room to bring the plane down. As far as the other engines (RAM 1000) no problems, but from now on, I will stick to the manual.
On the other hand, I hate to see Carlo's name on the "screwed up" (Gordon's second or third post), category. I see this guy always helping everyone at the field. Wether it is at 6:30 in the morning helping a flyer out before the flyinng session starts or skipping lunch to solve a an engine problem, regardlesss if it is RAM's or an owners fault (like me). Gordon I am not sure Carlos is the decision maker at RAM!! Your point was well made, no need for personal undeserved accusations. Signing off.
Jorge Escalona
ps. Yes, I have an order in for a JC 160. The more engine manufacturers the merrier for us, more choices, bettter service and lower prices!
On the other hand, I hate to see Carlo's name on the "screwed up" (Gordon's second or third post), category. I see this guy always helping everyone at the field. Wether it is at 6:30 in the morning helping a flyer out before the flyinng session starts or skipping lunch to solve a an engine problem, regardlesss if it is RAM's or an owners fault (like me). Gordon I am not sure Carlos is the decision maker at RAM!! Your point was well made, no need for personal undeserved accusations. Signing off.
Jorge Escalona
ps. Yes, I have an order in for a JC 160. The more engine manufacturers the merrier for us, more choices, bettter service and lower prices!