P-120 MOD ?????
04-23-2004, 08:20 AM
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P-120 MOD ?????
After one week of testing and flying. I have converted The P-120 to the P160 with out a problem 
. Just by changing the Ecu RPM from 123.000 to 128.000. scale reading only 31 #
. Just by changing the Ecu RPM from 123.000 to 128.000. scale reading only 31 #
.. just like you can get 50 lbs out of the P200 (though its rated at 45)
04-23-2004, 08:40 AM
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
On the first run the max rpm was 130.000. never check the scale. Comfortable at 128.000 
Check out the spec
http://jetcatusa.sitewavesonline.net/p160.html
Check out the spec
http://jetcatusa.sitewavesonline.net/p160.html
04-23-2004, 09:02 AM
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
I use my own mod ecu circuit to increases the rpm limit. The temp was 580 to 610 at full power. The bearing rated at 190.000 RPM. I ran the engine in an open lot for 45. min full power temp was the same and power. But the police was called
My next step is to buy the P-160 Ecu from jetcat and dub this P-120 the P-160 Just want to share this with you guys.
Note . I'm not saying all p120 can be modified. But i do think the P-80 by changing the tail cone to the P-120 cone and changing the ECU to the 120 its a 98% chance it will work.
My next step is to buy the P-160 Ecu from jetcat and dub this P-120 the P-160 Just want to share this with you guys.
Note . I'm not saying all p120 can be modified. But i do think the P-80 by changing the tail cone to the P-120 cone and changing the ECU to the 120 its a 98% chance it will work.
04-23-2004, 09:23 AM
#11
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
Bearings aren't the only reason we limit the rpm on engines. You have to consider internal stress on the compressor (which will fail at that rpm in a due amount of time), EGV assembly life span, as well as the combustion chamber rear plate and stick assemblies.
My guess is with you running the engine at 128,000 rpm, it won't be long before you send it to me for some work. And I am guessing it won't be cheap with what will have to be replaced.
Also might want to consider the warranty on the engine is void after running it at this rpm, (and yes we can tell) as well as our liability insurance we carry for the customers running our engines. I do not recommend anyone running a P-120 at 128,000, ever; the engine cannot take it.
My guess is with you running the engine at 128,000 rpm, it won't be long before you send it to me for some work. And I am guessing it won't be cheap with what will have to be replaced.
Also might want to consider the warranty on the engine is void after running it at this rpm, (and yes we can tell) as well as our liability insurance we carry for the customers running our engines. I do not recommend anyone running a P-120 at 128,000, ever; the engine cannot take it.
04-23-2004, 09:47 AM
#12
RE: P-120 MOD ?????
ORIGINAL: unknown
I use my own mod ecu circuit to increases the rpm limit. The temp was 580 to 610 at full power. The bearing rated at 190.000 RPM. I ran the engine in an open lot for 45. min full power temp was the same and power. But the police was called
My next step is to buy the P-160 Ecu from jetcat and dub this P-120 the P-160 Just want to share this with you guys.
Note . I'm not saying all p120 can be modified. But i do think the P-80 by changing the tail cone to the P-120 cone and changing the ECU to the 120 its a 98% chance it will work.
I use my own mod ecu circuit to increases the rpm limit. The temp was 580 to 610 at full power. The bearing rated at 190.000 RPM. I ran the engine in an open lot for 45. min full power temp was the same and power. But the police was called
My next step is to buy the P-160 Ecu from jetcat and dub this P-120 the P-160 Just want to share this with you guys.
Note . I'm not saying all p120 can be modified. But i do think the P-80 by changing the tail cone to the P-120 cone and changing the ECU to the 120 its a 98% chance it will work.
I am not sure any of this is even worth replying to. If I am silent on this some will believe your statements.
The P-160 is different than the P-120.All you have succeeded in doing is running a P-120 at a higher RPM. John has enumerated the potential downsides of this practice quite well. And changing the tailcone on a P-80 does not make a P-120, that is just ridiculous.
And I have no idea where this 190K RPM thing from.
Let me say this....I appreciate your initiative, but I am not sure why you insist on making these strange statements. So you figured out how to run a P-120 at higher RPM...why not leave the accomplishment at that? Why do you then have to make this assertion that the P-160 and the P-120 are the same? That is where I have the problem.
Maybe you are just a simple troll.
04-23-2004, 09:50 AM
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
No disrespect intended but i would prefer to hear why i shouldn't continue running my P-120 as a P160 from a factory technician or someone equivalent than a rep. From my understanding if the engine is not rated for 32#, it will not get up to 32#. I know this is the limit of that size turbine wheel and compressor. so i would not try to run the engine any higher than what i am running right now.
i have run engines to their distruction and the only part of the engine that was destroyed is the turbine wheel, NGV and sometimes the tailcone, then the bearings. i never seen any damage to the compressor wheel.
i have run engines to their distruction and the only part of the engine that was destroyed is the turbine wheel, NGV and sometimes the tailcone, then the bearings. i never seen any damage to the compressor wheel.
04-23-2004, 09:56 AM
#14
RE: P-120 MOD ?????
ORIGINAL: unknown
No disrespect intended but i would prefer to hear why i shouldn't continue running my P-120 as a P160 from a factory technician or someone equivalent than a rep.
No disrespect intended but i would prefer to hear why i shouldn't continue running my P-120 as a P160 from a factory technician or someone equivalent than a rep.
Let me say this again, you have made nothing remotely related to a P-160...you have run a motor over its rated RPM. Just like any motor has a RPM rating, when you exceed it what do you think will happen...
At first I thought you were talking about me, no big deal. If you are talking about John, he knows as much as the factory guys I can assure you. Did you even read his post, he told you quite succinctly why not
I hope John does not waste his time on this thread. John are we flying the new HotSpot today?
04-23-2004, 10:05 AM
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
Now I know why "unknown" was previously so p'd off that Jetcat wouldnt sell him the parts to do his own repairs to his engines - sounds like hes going to go through quite a few parts.
04-23-2004, 10:17 AM
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
Unknown,
My cars engine can rev up to 9000 rpm, however this is well above the factory labeled "Red line" of the engine. Can I rev the engine that high? Sure I can! But if I continue to run the engine at this rpm I will BLOW IT UP...... That is exactly what you are going to do running you P-120 at those rpms......
Hey.... it's your $$$$, Have fun..... [sm=stupid.gif]
My cars engine can rev up to 9000 rpm, however this is well above the factory labeled "Red line" of the engine. Can I rev the engine that high? Sure I can! But if I continue to run the engine at this rpm I will BLOW IT UP...... That is exactly what you are going to do running you P-120 at those rpms......
Hey.... it's your $$$$, Have fun..... [sm=stupid.gif]
04-23-2004, 10:37 AM
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
Experiment all you want, it's your $$$! Dont you think the factory sets a max RPM for a reason [sm=confused.gif]
They dont just set it at any arbitraty # for the hell of it. Max rpm is set to stop engines from reaching failure.
They dont just set it at any arbitraty # for the hell of it. Max rpm is set to stop engines from reaching failure.
04-23-2004, 10:38 AM
#20
RE: P-120 MOD ?????
Here's my problem. Jetcat to me is the most reliable turbine powerplant we've got. I run my mouth off that they are so reliable, that a used jetcat is just as good as a new jetcat.
So now I've got a potential problem. Some yahoo goes and mods the damn thing and a year down the road posts it for sale and then someone I have a personal relationship goes out and buys it from you.
Your used engine doesn't fit my recommendations, so all I ask is, don't put this engine on the open market if you ever sell it. Other than that, I hope you acheive amazing results that you are completely happy with!!
Share your results, I won't blast you. I hope you do get your target thrust amount. Applaud your effort.
However, I wish you wouldn't say you "converted a P-120 to a P-160". That's not true. My 160 puts out about 34 pounds of thrust. There isn't a P-120 out there including yours that can do that. I'll assume for a moment that you have the competence to be doing what your doing (although running an engine in a "lot" where "police" could get involved lowers my confidence, however, blast away, I don't see that you're hurting anyone, yet.
So now I've got a potential problem. Some yahoo goes and mods the damn thing and a year down the road posts it for sale and then someone I have a personal relationship goes out and buys it from you.
Your used engine doesn't fit my recommendations, so all I ask is, don't put this engine on the open market if you ever sell it. Other than that, I hope you acheive amazing results that you are completely happy with!!
Share your results, I won't blast you. I hope you do get your target thrust amount. Applaud your effort.
However, I wish you wouldn't say you "converted a P-120 to a P-160". That's not true. My 160 puts out about 34 pounds of thrust. There isn't a P-120 out there including yours that can do that. I'll assume for a moment that you have the competence to be doing what your doing (although running an engine in a "lot" where "police" could get involved lowers my confidence, however, blast away, I don't see that you're hurting anyone, yet.
04-23-2004, 11:27 AM
#24
RE: P-120 MOD ?????
Do you not think JetCat have tested their engines? My guess, being that they are one of the largest model turbine manfacturers,in the world, is that they have.
I would also guess that they are more aware than almost anybody as to exactly what materials they use and what their capabilities/stresses are. The reason for having an RPM limit, as you know, is safety. That is also the reason that the ECU will not allow you to exceed certain limits. By running higher RPMs you are eroding safety.
I am sure that you can get more power out of it. I am also sure that if it was a contest then JetCat would get even more power out of it than you. The long and short of it is that these are HIGHLY dangerous engines if not treated with respect. All reputable manufacturers produce their engines so that the average Joe can SAFELY enjoy running extremely high performance engines.
If you are running properly conducted tests then good luck to you. I personally think that the very best you may end up with is a knackered engine. If a part is overstressed and lets go the consequences could be far worse.
I would also guess that they are more aware than almost anybody as to exactly what materials they use and what their capabilities/stresses are. The reason for having an RPM limit, as you know, is safety. That is also the reason that the ECU will not allow you to exceed certain limits. By running higher RPMs you are eroding safety.
I am sure that you can get more power out of it. I am also sure that if it was a contest then JetCat would get even more power out of it than you. The long and short of it is that these are HIGHLY dangerous engines if not treated with respect. All reputable manufacturers produce their engines so that the average Joe can SAFELY enjoy running extremely high performance engines.
If you are running properly conducted tests then good luck to you. I personally think that the very best you may end up with is a knackered engine. If a part is overstressed and lets go the consequences could be far worse.
04-23-2004, 11:57 AM
#25
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RE: P-120 MOD ?????
Ok Unkown, do what you wish. If you look at me as just a rep then so be it. I happen to be the Service Manager for JetCat USA but that probably means I am not qualified to make any assertions about the product.
Stress is induced at an exponetial rate with every 1,000 rpm over the recommended rpm rating of the engine. JetCat has continued to improve and test the P-120 for the last 5 years. Things internally have changed dramatically to bring us (the customer) to the level of operational dependability that we have all come to enjoy.
Matt, on hte HotSpot we will be flying on Monday. Have to do the final look over and cycling of the batteries and then Bob will be back in the air.
Stress is induced at an exponetial rate with every 1,000 rpm over the recommended rpm rating of the engine. JetCat has continued to improve and test the P-120 for the last 5 years. Things internally have changed dramatically to bring us (the customer) to the level of operational dependability that we have all come to enjoy.
Matt, on hte HotSpot we will be flying on Monday. Have to do the final look over and cycling of the batteries and then Bob will be back in the air.