wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

Well, i have started on my KingCat (hope to be done in 2 weeks ) and my P200 should be here soon, hopefully just as im ready for it .... I am installing the p200 because the p160s are not available, and i just want more power than a p120 can provide ... anyawy, i have a few questions to you guys who have flown the KC with the P200s ... (Scott, David, John ? anyone else ? )

- how shold i mount the engine ? id rather not gut the back of the plane for the starter motor, but dont want to be adding lead for the propper CG. (i do have clear deck cockpit kit, and will be putting in a bluebox toys pilot bust in, i hear this alone tends to balance things out ? ) also, did anyone have to change the thrust angle on the 200 to allow the plane to fly straight ? how much ?

- i am intending to use all of the power from the 200 , i will have a speed limiter set the max speed to 200, (maybe a bit more at the non AMA sites i fly at , but 200-210 for now should be plenty ) For regular flight i will set the throttle atv lower to have the thrust around 35 lbs, and will be able to kick in full ATVs via a switch for full 45lbs (only for vertical climb outs from slow flight probably)

- do i need to beef up any of the aft fuse section to handle the extra thrust ?? maybe extra screws to hold down the mounts ?

- how do the flight characteristics differ on the P200 (the extra thrust and weight) from smaler engines ? in particular landing ? i heard the plane floats on for ever on the p200 ... is the crow mixing enough to lessen this ?

- any other tips ? suggestions ?



thanks guys !!



Wojtek

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Not a smart post.

If you want to violate AMA rules, please keep it to yourself. If you want to see your turbine waiver yanked, then carry on with the type of post you made above.

This is just a friendly reminder and should not be taken as a fulmination.

Regards

Ben

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Ben - have you ever heard of a waiver being yanked because someone bust the safety rules ? I haven't - the only waiver yanking I ever heard of, was when an employer and employee had a disagreement and the boss, who was a bit of a "heavy hitter", contacted the AMA to claim that his signature on a CD sign-off form had been forged by his employee.

I know of several occasions where multiple people have contacted the AMA to notify them of repeated and flagrant disregard of the safety rules w.r.t turbines by certain individuals, and the AMA has not yanked a single waiver for such actions. Meanwhile, people like DB shout and scream about the turbine community not policing itself (falsely claiming that we never ask for any waiver removals), and use that bogus claim as justification for any rules they may care to impose on us.

Seems to me that the system is pretty much broken, and that the rules really only mean anything to those who choose to obey them.

Gordon

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Guys, what part of "flying at non-ama" fields do you all not understand? He can fly 300 MPH wherever the heck he wants to! And so long as it's not at an AMA field, why does anyone care?

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Woj, if you are using the speed limiter, why use a reduced ATV at all? Why not use all 45 pounds, restricted by the speed limiter?

Thanks.

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

WOJTEK does not have a waiver boys....

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Then it is people like my honorable friend Woj and their posts that make us all look like bunch of renegades in the eyes of AMA EC members.

Another intelligent post.....Bravo......Bravo!!!!!!!

Flack jacket on.......waiting for incoming SCUD missiles

Helijet

Hmmmmm..... so if I were to say I am going to put a JetCat P200 on my KingCat as well, would you give me the same response. I am not an AMA member so the rules do not apply but neither should I get blasted for it on RC UNIVERSE My understanding is that this site is for ALL modelers throughout the world and not affiliated with any Modeling organization either. Please do correct if I am wrong if this is an AMA only site???? Wojteck simply made a statement - he does not need to slapped for it. There are other ways to get your point across!

Now as for the original statement. Wojteck, the JetCat P200 has been mounted and flown on the KingCat but as many experienced turbine jet modelers have noted - it is " stupid power " Not only is the aircraft much heavier, fuel consumption was up but its also WAY overkill on the airframe. The benefits of extra thrust are far outweighed by the negatives of increased residual thrust, weight, and very, very careful throttle management. I considered the P200 as well for my bird but after talking with a lot of guys ( Bob Wilcox, Mr. BV, John Redman, David Reid ) - I got scared off. These guys know ! Since then, I have flown a number of customers' KingCats and I assure you the P120 has more than ample thrust to scare you. Be reasonable, be safe and you will continue to have good success.

Dean Wichmann
MAAC 14436
www.helijet.ca

Jackjet

My Feedback: (1)

[quote]ORIGINAL: wojtek

Well, i have started on my KingCat (hope to be done in 2 weeks ) and my P200 should be here soon, hopefully just as im ready for it .... I am installing the p200 because the p160s are not available, and i just want more power than a p120 can provide ... anyawy, i have a few questions to you guys who have flown the KC with the P200s ... (Scott, David, John ? anyone else ? )

- how shold i mount the engine ? id rather not gut the back of the plane for the starter motor, but dont want to be adding lead for the propper CG. (i do have clear deck cockpit kit, and will be putting in a bluebox toys pilot bust in, i hear this alone tends to balance things out ? ) also, did anyone have to change the thrust angle on the 200 to allow the plane to fly straight ? how much ?

Wojetk

- i am intending to use all of the power from the 200 , i will have a speed limiter set the max speed to 200, (maybe a bit more at the non AMA sites i fly at , but 200-210 for now should be plenty ) For regular flight i will set the throttle atv lower to have the thrust around 35 lbs, and will be able to kick in full ATVs via a switch for full 45lbs (only for vertical climb outs from slow flight probably)

- do i need to beef up any of the aft fuse section to handle the extra thrust ?? maybe extra screws to hold down the mounts ?

- how do the flight characteristics differ on the P200 (the extra thrust and weight) from smaler engines ? in particular landing ? i heard the plane floats on for ever on the p200 ... is the crow mixing enough to lessen this ?

- any other tips ? suggestions ?



thanks guys !!



Wojtek
[/quote


Wojtek,
go ahead and use that P200 - .Just use max power ONLY when you need it - just like full scale military uses afterburner only when they need it. Another way of looking at it is like this - you can always derate the engine and run it at a lower thrust setting - it will last longer too. Lets say you turn it down to 35lbs.- you could expect a 100% increase in T.B.O. On a A/C as large as a King Cat the extra weight of the P200 engine does not matter. Just like some airlines will install a engine that is rated at 80,000lbs. - but derate it to 50,000lbs. Result - engine will run 7000 hours before a overhaul is requried and there is a LARGE safety margin in case you have a engine failure at takeoff. If you are worried about the thrust at idle - it is NOT that hard to make a simple thrust reverser like the one that is on a BD-5 J.

So go for it.

Jackjet

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Mr. Wichmann.

Point well taken. On the other hand, if he is not an AMA member or holds an AMA turbine waiver and he resides in USA, why bring AMA up in his post.

Call it being paranoid but I was there in January of this year at AMA HQ and knew what and how long it took Steve E and other turbine committee members to convince AMA EC members otherwise.

I apologize if my post came across as rude because it was never intended as such.


BTW, thank your stars that you do not have to put-up with the type of rules and regulations we are subjected to here in USA (AMA turbine rules)

FWIW, few years ago when Wolfgang flew his turbine at night with some people (including myself) cheering him on, the consequences of his action was directed to all US turbine pilots. An article was written in MA that nobody spoke out against it.

Let it hereby be on the records that I spoke out against this one and it would not bother me of any criticism I receive hereafter.

Flack jacket on.......waiting for more incoming SCUD missiles

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

not a smart response, and to match your arrogance and true stupidity, here is my response ... go shove your crap elsewhere !! why don;t you do as you usually do and delete this thread all together ...

Yes, i do not have a waiver !!!! ohh !! ! ohhh !!! I DONT NEED IT WHERE I FLY !!!! its not AMA !!!! is that clear enough for you ?? i am a AMA member and when i fly at AMA fields, it not a turbine powered aircraft !! sooooo if i like I can fly as fast as I want !! if i am on private property, i do not care about the EC, or the AMA, or you !!! dumb @$$ ! ...

As for the waiver, i ontend to get it, just because i hav the intention on traveling to some of the jet events this and next year. When I am at an AMA field or sanctioned event (once i have the waiver) i will follow AMA regs to the most minute detail .... if im on private property, im crancking my sh1t wide open !! and neither the AMA or you can do anything about it !!!

now knowing you and your ignorance, arrogance , and in efect comunistic state of mind, may I also advise you that RCU is also not under AMA regulation (you sure moderate it like it is !! ) , and i can ask what wish, as long as its "factual" and not derogatory to anyone ...


I want to vary the ATV on the top end thrust so as to have a variable throttle curve ... for moderate flight, landing and takeoff, i would like a little less toutch throttle feel, a full 45 lbs would only be desired for pulling a hard vertical climbout from slow level flight (i always though that looks so cool ! ) as for top end seppd 200 - 210 is fine for me ... i have other planes to go beyond that (again, only at non AMA fields .. )





I guess thanks to Ghost Rider for taking the thread off topic (you hypocrite) im not getting anything answered, and i think i will just have to discuss this via email and PMs with others who have done what i am doing ... everyone ... say thank you to GhostRider !!!!!! he has runied another thread ... then again, you might not get to read this because he might delete it ....


why dont you quit moderating, we dont need you , we dont like, go away !!


Wojtek

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

Helijet, thanks for the input ... i will just have to see how the plane flies on the P200 ... i do have another plane in the works that does actually need the P200 (full 45lbs) .. and i have a 2nd p200 on order for that plane .... if i could, i would have put a p160 on the KingCat, but there are issues with that (another post, another time ) as well as availability ..... i know the p120 will fly the plane super well, but basically, well ..... i want more ... and as i stated in a prior post, i wont even use more than 35 - 37 max thrust for 99.9% of the time ..... but for vertical climbouts, well, i might kick the 45 in here and there ..... from what i heard, the KingCat is absolutely awesome on the 200 as long as its done reasonably ... the extra weight is no big deal .. i like the way planes land at higher wing loadings, plus , the KingCat has so much lift it needs crow mixing anywa .....

I hope some of the guys can answer at least some of my original questions ...


thanks !


WOjtek

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

hey bright stuff !!! i brought up the AMA specifically to point out that I do not fly at an AMA field, in an atempt to keep geniuses like you from hijacking threads like this with your communist views !!!

people like you are exactly why I fly at private flying areas !! no BS, no politics !!!


Wojtek

Bangedup

Wojtek,
Eben in India we do not have camels as stupid as you. Putting a P 200 on a Kingcat is like putting a big block V-8 on a go cart and then driving around with the brake on. You are not to bright.
Mr. Whitchman you not bright eiber.
AMA and fellow modellers should pull plug on you before you burn down camel watering hole

3DHELINUT

My Feedback: (3)

Here we go again........

I see that you where cheering on Wolfgang and as soon as no one was looking you stab him in the back?

Ghost can you tell me of one statue in any state that limits the speed of a model aircraft?
Can you tell me where in the AMA guide lines it mentions non ama sites or events in relation to speed of a turbine powered model? Why is it that i can power a model plane with a two or four cycle engine and not be limited to speed?


If Wojtek wants to go 350 MPH and he is on private property there is no law or regulation to stop him and it is within his right to do so, the AMA guidelines only effect AMA members flying at AMA sanctioned events or flying sites........... PERIOD!

This does not make every turbine waiver holder a renegade flyer nor does it show that we are careless or endangering the public or public/private property.

Don't push your sanctimonious views on us by closing or deleting threads and lets keep an open forum for open views........



Alan....

3DHELINUT

My Feedback: (3)

Bangedup so would you suggest that ferrari put 4 cylinder engines in their new ENZO because no one need to go over 55MPH!




Alan

Bangedup

3bHeli nut,
I don't tink you understand much about aerodynamics. Your qestion about da Ferrari is not to smart. Ferrari design ENZO to take de 660 hp engine. KingCat not to good wid de big turbine being flown by de small brain. You tink it go 300 mph. I tink you have a smokin hole if you try. Ever hear of de aeroelasticity? Do you know what dynamic pressure is? I tink you know how to make popcorn in microwave but that about it.

Habib glad you fly in private land. Big boom boom result, Scare my camel

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

no one is trying to fly the KC at 300 mph ..... to compare , if i had an enzo, i am sure i would easily use up all 600 HP between 0 - 55 mph ..... same with the KC ... 45 lbs can be used on the way to 200 , not nececarily going over it .... (an yes !!! at non ama sites i fly at well over 200 MPH !!!!! choke on that !! )

I can't believe I just made a response to Bangedup ..... i guess its late ....



Wojtek

Bangedup

Ah, My camel has spotted himself he tink it bery phunny dat you want me to choke on that. Habib say da only one choking will be you when you add up all da rupies you pissed away after da big boom.
Camel and I tink it bery funny you know so little about da jets.

3DHELINUT

My Feedback: (3)

Oh us poor white American welfare collecting trash due know how to make popcorn in the fireplace, if we are not drinking beer and watching Jerry Springer we are having $EX with our sheep...............

When have you done stress tests on the KingCat? i guess you use the wind tunnel you have constructed at the TAj MAH Hal to conduct aerodynamic testing[>:] You seem to reference your Camel quit often, are the two of you in love?

Save all your rupies and buy a Avistar as i guess that is all you are capable of handling[&:]



Alan.....

Flyjets

My Feedback: (51)

Just a bit curious about max speed of a King Kat surely someone knows this answer?

Since I am flying at AMA fields 80% of the time I realize we have the 200mph speed limit does anyone know why?

Just a guess but it also happens to be max speed in a airport traffic area as well as under the lateral limits of a TCA AKA large airport airspace.


Using a Jet Cat 200 on the BVM King Kat is just way to overkill and hacking up the back for the starter motor makes no sense. I would understand it if shared the engine on a heavier model and wanted to save a few $..............

The King kat is a large airplane the drag on it will increase dramatically as she goes beyond 200 it would be a shame to have a structural failure on a airplane that was clearly designed with maneuvering and slow speeds in mind. If you feel that speed is so important I would get a different airframe. The Super Bandit can really Rip way beyond the Big Kats speed envelope.

Ian

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
Dave Brown pulled the 200 MPH limit out of the air.
I'm curious if there is an AMA document regarding what infractions could constitute a revocation of a waiver? I couldn't find anything in the AMA site. If I SAY I'm going to fly faster than 200 MPH but never do it, can I have my waiver revoked? It would seem from Ben's initial reply to Wojtek that this is the case: that saying you're going to violate some part of the regs, such as speed, is the same as actually doing it.
And now for the bad news: Dave Brown is running for President AGAIN.
BRG,
Jon

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

tha AMA itself has admited that this # was just pulled out of a hat .. no specific reason behind it ... I was advised to keep the King Cat at no more than 200-210 .. thats the max the airframe was technically designed for ... i will acomplish this with a speed limiter ... if I was told the airframe could pull 250, thats where i would set the speed limiter at .. (again, for those on the dense and unclear side of things, this is at a NON AMA site !! )


well, for me the p120 is not enough thrust to my liking on that plane ... , and the P200 is the next engine up that is available. If I was to use any other engine than a jetcat, it might be an AMT, however the at400 weighs as much if not more than a p200 anywy. I do have another plane in the works which i will need the 200 for, but i will be buying a second p200 for it ... I agree, straight and level, the p200 is overkill, but who aid anyone wants to use the full 45 lbs in level flight ? all i want is a 35+ lbs engine, and hey, if i can get 45 out of it, i'll use it here and there, like on verticals .... actually, with the speed limiter, does not matter much in level flight anywa, ill just get to 200 mph quicker ... i know some people have said the plane is too heavy with the P200, but i do not think that is the case ... for one, i have heard that tehe clear deck and canopy set with a pilot actually balance out the extra weight of the p200 over a p120 .. , so if someone is using a p120, and adds the clear cockpit kit, they woiuld have to add that weight anyway ... also, the plane floats on enough so that BVM has now advised using crow mixing to get it down better .... the extra weigh can only add to a better landing airplane in my opinion (the extra thrust will make up for the extra weight in the air) ... i like the way heavy planes land better anywy, and high landign speeds are not an issue for me, however i still can not see the KC landing all that fast, with or without the P200 ....

I htink that if a plane balances out on the CG ok, then there is no such thing as being overpowered (as long as the AF can take it also obviously)



i wish i could get some good technical replies here to the questions i originally posted, but looks like all the muppets and moderators scared away the people who might have contributed to a very usefull, informative thread ..... I'm puting the o200 on my King cat, and thats final .. please not more opinions or advice telling me not to do so .... I know its been done, and 2 of the people i have talked with about this said the plane flew AWESOME !! i understand that with the p200 the KC might be uncontrollable to some pilots .. I on the other hand KNOW what im doing .... ( the p200 will by my 8th JetCat turbine !! , i have been around the block )

I love how all these people on here protest the AMA and always complin how tyranical the organization is, and how the weight limits should be raised, and speeds increased .... but the same people scream bloody murder that i want to fly outside of the AMA boundaries when i am at a private flying field with no AMA rules !! this is such hipocrisy !!! even worse than the old foagie crap that flies around in the AMA, beginers, and warbirds forums !!!





Wojtek

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

If the AMA pulls my waiver (once i have it amyway ) because i state i fly outsde of their regulations, and i actually do fly outside of those regulations , now again this is at a NON AMA OPERATED FIELD !!!! ... then i would have an absolutely wonderfull legal case against them for violation of privacy !! what one does outside of an AMA flying site or sanctioned event is none of the AMA's business ... its not like the are the equivalent of the FAA !!!

hey, lets ban all the blokes in the UK from violating the AMA rules also !!! hell, lets ban the french and their over 55 planes also !!!


this is a forum about jets !! not about jets in the confines of the AMA !!! get it straight people !!!


do you ever wonder why so many people out of Cali go to the lake beds od desert to fly ??? TO GET AWAY FROM THE AMA !!! AND FLY OVER 200 !mph !!!


a while ago there was a thread of someone puting a P200 in a JMP firebird ... a plane with an airframe capable of speeds a lot higher than the king cat could ever pull with that engine ... why did none of you muppets complin there ??





Wojtek

vinnyjet

My Feedback: (39)

when i get a king cat i will put this bad boy on it
just kidding seen a lot of KCs fly with 120s great combo
vinny
ps this is GEs new gen turbine for boeings new big boy 125,000 lbs T