Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

OK.. I'll bite.

I fail to see how your conclusions demonstrate that JR is not a reputable company in the event of radio problems. Your opinions are unsubstantiated. JR in fact has the highest warranty period of any radio manufacturer at 3 years.

JR does in fact make dual conversion receivers (the 940 and 945) as well as the single conversion ABC&W receivers in the 10 channel models (950 & 955). Having used both flavors for almost 10 years, I've yet to have a radio related problem on any aircraft personally. This includes running 955's in both of my jets, and several giant scale aircraft over the years.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

LOL - the only safety issue I see in his post, is that it could be dangerous for me to bite a piece of bait that has such an obvious fish-hook in it.

Gordon

jsnipes

My Feedback: (3)

Well...I have a 945 (dual conversion) in my Kingcat. Guess I should've flown afterwards to see if I got shot down too. Not!

Tell you what ... anyone willing to take their Futaba dual conversion equipped turbine powered jet up to the flying site and test it out, I'll drive up from NC to film the crash for the record.

What I'm saying (with no specific data to back it up) is that I don't think it mattered what brand you were flying.

And as far as using fail safe or not ... dude ... read the post about the Pitts hitting the guy. Use fail safe and set the throttle channel to kill the engine and or have the ECU kill the turbine! Get as much energy out of the plane as possible. We need to think less about "what's going to save the plane" and more about "what's the safest thing to do". These are not always the same thing.

Also, at HOH, the two turbine jets that got hit (one of which crashed) moved in a very predictable manner. IF you were watching you would have had half a chance to get out of the way. One pretty much slow rolled to the ground and the other did a lazy aileron roll with a slow pitch to the ground before control was regained. The small electic DF jet with no PCM went NUTS ... including darting to within a couple feet of the first row of tents before darting back toward the runway and hitting the ground. No way to predict where it was going next. If you see a lock out crash vs the "jittery" crash of a non-PCM system I think you might change your mind. We got to see all these literally within minutes of each other. Not good.

I agree with RobertV ... the correct decision was made to cancel the event, despite the disappointment that came along with the decision.

JS

IFlyRC5630

My Feedback: (50)

Futabaman

My Feedback: (1)

There have been a couple of comments here about an electric ducted fan jet that crashed at the Scramble. I need to make a point about this, as the reason for it's crash was not radio related.. It was a CG situation, going from nimh's to li-po's which are located in the nose of the jet. This changed the CG in it to the point where it was uncontrollable in the less than perfect wind conditions at the time.
This was brought to Terry's attention after the "cancellation" and he understood about it. Whether or not any of the radio manufacturer's make a superior product is not the issue. Terry and his crew made the right decision, and I think that everyone in attendance, was in aggreement with this.
When you think about it, every time you put an $$$ investment in the air, you risk the same thing that happened there. We all need to work at finding a solution to the problem, rather than making one.

Edge 540

My Feedback: (2)

Humm,

someone must have erased my reply?

MMMMMMMMM

Edge 540

My Feedback: (2)

my mistake I found it !!!!



MMMMMMMMMMM

Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

Being in health care,I've read in some of our magazines about incidents of "mass hysteria". One person gets ill at a large gathering of people,then hundreds become "sick" ,and everyone thinks they have food poisoning or legionaires disease.
All equipment made by man will occasionally fail. All humans ,regardless of their "legend" status will make mistakes. All humans.
There are a lot of pilots buried who were at the very top of their game ,and either they or their equipment failed.
I'm from an hour north of there,and have flown in the immediate vicinity,and never had a problem. I'm not saying there wasn't a problem ,but I was at the "show". Guess what? There were actually fliers who didn't have a problem ,and hey,they even used JR's. Sounds like a lot of b.s. to me. Maybe even Mass Hysteria. And please,spare me the hero worship as evidence that there was a problem.
Doug

RobertV

Futabaman,

Actually, the electric jet I spoke of was Keith Horton's own-design profile electric "Maverick" which flew later in the afternoon on Thursday. He made a couple of circuits and then got what appeared to be one small elevator "hit". He wasn't sure if it was wind or not. But the next time by we knew exactly what it was since the aircraft went crazy with obvious interference and veered toward the tents at the end of the runway. Somehow it managed to turn back toward the runway and went in. It was broken up so bad that he threw it away.......

I wasn't aware of your flight problems and I hope your jet is repairable!

Robert

KHORTON

My Feedback: (1)

"There have been a couple of comments here about an electric ducted fan jet that crashed at the Scramble. I need to make a point about this, as the reason for it's crash was not radio related.. It was a CG situation, going from nimh's to li-po's which are located in the nose of the jet. This changed the CG in it to the point where it was uncontrollable in the less than perfect wind conditions at the time"

Futabaman,

Are you nuts? Were you even at the event? How do you know what caused the crash? I certainly don't remember discussing it with you personally. I happen to be the pilot in charge of that electric jet. The jet had over 300 perfect flights on it prior to Ohio. I was not using li-po's or nimh's as you suggest. The jet has a wemotec 480 fan, kontronics 400-36 motor and flies on a 9 cell CP1700 pack.
I was persuaded to fly the jet because all the Futaba and JR jet guys were afraid to fly because of a "possible" not verified RF problem. Let me repeat that for anyone not listening. At the time no-one could actually verified interference on all 72 mhz channels so we were not sure if this was a channel specific issue or a broad across the board problem. Bear in mind, this all took place on Thursday afternoon shortly after the Kingcat went in. The E-mav was the least expensive "test" plane in the trailer and the only expendable model between the 4 of us from N.C. The launch was prefect, downwind perfect but the first time I turned back towards the runway I got a small hit (wing waggle). It was small so I immediately called out hit, then reconsidered and advises the other pilots watching it could have been a wind gust. On the second circuit I moved out even further, no problems, until again I turned onto final as as I approached 45 degrees to the runway I got a BIG HIT. The plane lost total control and hit the ground just past the edge of the runway. We immediately checked the area with a scanner but found nothing on the narrow band. On the wide band setting there was complete RF noise.
Anyway, everyone that witnessed the flight will agree it was RF interference not a non-stable model. Terry made the only decision he had to cancel the event. Without a doubt there would have been many planes lost if the event had gone on as scheduled

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Just having some fun with ya Gordon


Anyway, I hope the cause of all the erratic behavior is determined, and made public, whether it is manufacturer, solar flair, or BPL related.

Steve S

My Feedback: (54)

Mannn this is some scary stuff in the RC world,esp. when they are talking about expriementing in various states with this new technology...RF problems and no one knows what is causing them.If I lived anywhere in OH I would be real hesitant to fly right now at all until they find the true cause of this.Esp. when it appears from the subject lines stated that Broadband waves apparently spread out amongst many miles.

As P51 mentioned above is it possible that" solar spots/solar flare" if intense enough could maybe cause problems with RF signals?I dont know much about the subject ,just asking.It does bring up an interesting possibilty tho in one's mind as "solar spots" are causing major problems here in parts of VA with cell phone operations.Again I dont know if there is a relation in the RC world but is it possible?


Steve

GPutt33

My Feedback: (2)

I've seen some discussion in other threads here on RCU and I don't think anything has really been concluded one way or the other on sun spots. When the sun erupts with some of the larger storms and it's pointed towards the earth I have heard some guys say they won't fly while others do.

SpaceWeather.com (see link below) says there was a sun spot on the 25th, but it shouldn't have had any direct effect's on earth due to where in erupted on the sun in relation to the earth (pointing away). Maybe these links will help shed some light on the sun spot questions. Hope you enjoy them.......

I kind of play it by ear and check in to some sites dedicated to these:

[link=http://www.spaceweather.com/]Space Weather.com[/link] has a forecast like the weather.

[link=http://www.sec.noaa.gov/SWN/index.html]Instant Solar Gauge[/link] has something like what you would have if you had a home weather station I guess.

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

It's O.K. to speculate about solar flares and BPL at this time, but since 1967, when I bought my first PCS(anybody remember those) R/C radio, I have never felt I was shot down by EM interference........I have lost about 1/2 dozen planes in the last 37 years to "radio failure" but I have always been able to trace those to: Bad battery, bad switch, bad RX, bad crystal in the RX, bad crystal in the TX, bad encoder board in the TX, corrosion on plug, fractured servo wire, antenna to close to ignition module or ECU, etc, etc, etc......

Unfortunately, in allot of crashes, the key components are destroyed, so not much can be said about those cases, but this year, in our club of about 70 guys, what were claimed to be "hits", upon further investigation turned out to be subtle problems in the R/C installation......

So spend less time worrying about sunspots and more time checking and re-checking your install, and range checking at least once on any fly day.....it is amazing how you can put your stuff to sleep on Monday, and when you go to use it on Tuesday, it's puked or on the verge of puking.....

Tom

KHORTON

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Tom, I agree with most of what you are saying but how can you explain three or four different jets, all on different frequencies all getting shot down or nearly shot down within an hour of one another and all pretty much at the same point in the airspace? Plus, I wouldn't bother telling Tom and BV their radio equipment was installed improperly.

IFlyRC5630

My Feedback: (50)

There are several facts that don't seem to be evident to the folks reading this stuff.
Terry did not make the decision to cancel. The TORKS Jet Scramble Committee of 6 men made the decision to cancel. (unanimous)
Forget about how many planes might have been lost. Consider the personal injury and property damage not related to the aircraft that might have occured had the event continued. R/C planes can be replaced regardless of how pricy !!
TORKS had the best minds and equipment we have available looking at the RF situation. One of these fine gentlemen was asked after the cancellation if that was the right decision. His answer was absolutely. So the "techies" were in total agreement with the decision.

Futabaman

My Feedback: (1)

KHorton..
Obviously, neither of us saw each others crashes.. and btw... YES, I was at the event.

KHORTON

My Feedback: (1)

Futabaman, you're right I did not witness your crash but I am sorry to hear about it.
On the other hand however I did not come on here and explain in detail how you crashed.
The Heart of Ohio event has always been a favorite event. Hope the TORKS group gets everything sorted out.

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

Hi Steve,

Is Missouri one of those states by any Chance ?????????? I'm kinda concerned about driving 18 hrs to experience this kind of issues.

Thanks in Advance........................ Johnny Hernandez

David Gladwin

In reply to Tom Antflinger: Yes Tom, some of us do remember PCS back around 1968, and that gorgeous girl Cliff Weireck used in his ads. She is probably a grandmother now ! Remember how quickly the pots wore out on those Kraft servos ?
Regards,
David Gladwin

jfangohr

Jetflyer 24,

Don’t want to alarm anyone, and I don’t know of any testing going on in MO, but one member of our club (central Missouri) just happened to have a scanner with him this past Sunday at the field. We were seeing intermittent noise on several channels in the 20’s and 30’s. Channel 15 was really getting clobbered, and the interesting part is that what we could hear on the scanner speaker sounded just like a modem. None of us were on 15 however, so we're not sure what problem it may have caused. There were pilots on two of the other channels that saw some noise, but it was imtermittant enough that they reported no problems.

John F.

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi David,
That gal's name was Charlene, her nickname was "Charlie Brown" for some reason! She and Cliff were married in the late 60's, don't know if they were still married when Cliff passed away several years ago. A lot of people don't realize that Cliff held the US Patent for designing the proportional radio that we have today.
BRG,
Jon

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

Hi Ken:

At Winamac 2002, 4 planes went in on the first morning of the Meet.....a couple of others thought they might have been hit......one guy was claiming someone was trying to shoot him down....on at least 3 of the planes, mechanicals or dumb thumbs were found at fault.....guys were running around with scanners, certain that they saw a "funny" signal on one or the other channel, most of them not really versed in interpretation of the findings.....flight line was shut down for a short time.....finally decided to go fly again.....no more problems after that......during the "hit phase", I flew my Bandit and HotSpot with nary a waggle, while another guy on CH 37 claimed he had been hit.....how come??

Point is, when you bring together 50-75 or more guys at a FlyIn, with a certain number of them arrogant enough to say that their build job and equiptment installation is not only perfect, but also will never fail while in their hands, all it takes is a coincidental 2 or 3 planes acting funny, and all logic is blown away.....at probably 2/3 of the 25 or so FlyIns I have attended the last couple of years, both in my local area and around the U.S., I have seen this rush to judgement happen, when 2 or more guys get a glitch of some sort in a narrow time frame......I am sure both of us have seen terrible radio installs that defy description.........right here on RCU a guy was wondering if the fact that his antenna was wrapped around his ECU to take up slack might be the source of his bad range check??? The factory told him the ECU was quiet, so why not bubble wrap it with an antenna? Sounds logical to me.....Rather than running around with a scanner, might be better to have a careful airplane safety inspection and 360 range check, like Lee DeMary suggests, of the affected planes.....

In no way am I questioning the Tork's decision to shut down HOH....my point is, if they are wrong, and it wasn't external interference, then all those guys flying around with glitches on their planes are still flying back home, and may reappear at a FlyIn that I am at in the future......now for me, that's a scary thought......

As far as BV goes, I respect MOST of what he does and preaches.....but I still have a list of things he suggests that I disagree with, beginning with never using vertical antennas, either loaded shortened ones or the full length ones.... rather, the plans call for cramming the antenna inside my Bandit or down the wing of my BobCat or KingCat.....under good signal conditions, it no doubt is adequate, but, perhaps in an environment with less than a clean spectrum (maybe like HOH), it may prove inadequate.....

My faith still lies in Occam's Razor.....The simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation....Everytime I have recorded a Failsafe hit on any of my planes since the new JetCat software spit that data out, I have traced it to a problem in my stuff......no need to invoke invisible devil rays from sunspots, BPL, TV audio, or Pagers......

Tom

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

Hi David:

We are both showing our age, mate! Mentioning Charlene's name just blew me back 35 years.....I lived in California during the glory days of shelving the reeds and going proportional......I think I stayed up 2 straight days watching the servos track the stick on that PCS.......

Talk about glitches with those old pots......if you didn't learn how to clean them or change them out yourself, you only flew during the even months, since your radio would be back at the factory during the odd months....

Tom

H.Dale

My Feedback: (3)

I have to agree with Tom. I am not a jet pilot but I have been to a number of jet fly-in's. What surprises me is out of 50 or 60 flyers I would say 10 of them have really good flying skills. The only difference from a local fly in is the price of their equipment.

When the average pilots see a really good pilot like BVM lose a plane everytime they get a wind gust they are convinced they have been hit. I see that at the local club level all of the time. I don't know how many times I see a flyer say he got hit when all it was wind or a dumb thumb. I bet they never find any real interference.

Hal