Giant B-52 Destroyed
09-02-2004, 05:19 PM
#151
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
U Guys
I watched this darn video over and over and have to remove my stall theory. For a second the model appeared to go into a left bank but in-fact it went right. The Pilot was correcting for the left bank and the model augured in.
Ian
I watched this darn video over and over and have to remove my stall theory. For a second the model appeared to go into a left bank but in-fact it went right. The Pilot was correcting for the left bank and the model augured in.
Ian
09-02-2004, 05:42 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
A witness reported a anomaly (tipstall?) , in a previous flight of the buff, that nearly anticipated this accident. it is a rumour or does anybody know if it really happened?
Enrique
Enrique
09-02-2004, 05:42 PM
#154
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
Commiserations to all involved, this is horrific to watch.
Just thinking though, i saw a solid state camcorder in duty free at edinburgh airport for £100 (US $170 ). One of those on board would be a drop in the ocean for the cost of the model, and if it had survived would have yielded the info were all debating ( or were debating)
Just thinking though, i saw a solid state camcorder in duty free at edinburgh airport for £100 (US $170 ). One of those on board would be a drop in the ocean for the cost of the model, and if it had survived would have yielded the info were all debating ( or were debating)
09-02-2004, 06:17 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
I am afraid it would not have lived through the crash. The camera that is!
This has been an intersting thread, but the fact remains, it went in on a right hand turn.
I was there so were many others, all confirm right hand. The camera angle does not help either, as i said before the other vid with the missing frames would have been the one, it was more from the rear and you can clearly see the plane bank right just before the cameraman looses the model.
The camera, and 2d, can fool the eye very easily, and lets face it the light and colour do not help.
But we have clear evidence from eddie, the white patch clearly visible, this shown with out a doubt which way it went.
The reflection on the top of the wing
The last frames showing the underwing view
It is all there
This has been an intersting thread, but the fact remains, it went in on a right hand turn.
I was there so were many others, all confirm right hand. The camera angle does not help either, as i said before the other vid with the missing frames would have been the one, it was more from the rear and you can clearly see the plane bank right just before the cameraman looses the model.
The camera, and 2d, can fool the eye very easily, and lets face it the light and colour do not help.
But we have clear evidence from eddie, the white patch clearly visible, this shown with out a doubt which way it went.
The reflection on the top of the wing
The last frames showing the underwing view
It is all there
09-02-2004, 06:31 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
i figured out what happened after watching the video many times
results: the plane crashed and it's being rebulit. part of the hobby
results: the plane crashed and it's being rebulit. part of the hobby
09-02-2004, 08:04 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
there is a video ,from about 15 years ago ,of a real b52 going in, that looked a lot like this crash... i believe the pilot was blamed for turning to steeply in that crash.. i,m not saying that is what happened here ..
09-02-2004, 08:44 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
Boy , I had to watch it a number of times but I definitely see it turning right . It does give the appearance of turning left initially but it was a fake out. It was in a right turn the whole time. I suspect Gord reacted to the apparent left turn and corrected to the right thereby worsening the situation . It's my experience that swept wings are especially prone to giving these disorienting visuals. Combine a grey/aluminum aircraft against a grey , dull sky and you have a recipe for disaster.
As for the downwind turn theories , all I can say is " unsure of a concept "[sm=rolleyes.gif]
Too bad guys ! I feel for ya !!
Marc
As for the downwind turn theories , all I can say is " unsure of a concept "[sm=rolleyes.gif]
Too bad guys ! I feel for ya !!
Marc
09-02-2004, 09:07 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
I'm for the right turn too, just look at the fin, when the model turns right the fin is in the shade, appearing black, and when it turns left the fin shines in the "sun" (!!). At the entry of the spin the fin is completely black....which indicates a right turn
09-02-2004, 10:01 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
it's 30mb but it's good might help in your debate
http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Gian...52_flight2.wmv
http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Gian...52_flight2.wmv
09-02-2004, 10:03 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
never mind, watched it some more and now I can see the right turn. removing invalid conclusion and pictures that did nothing to prove the left turn...
09-02-2004, 10:43 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
Here is a shot from the test flight #2 just posted where the plane did not crash..
You can see the white spot is quite bright during flight...
Eddie
You can see the white spot is quite bright during flight...
Eddie
09-03-2004, 01:19 AM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
I was there on the flight line with Gordon. It wasnt disoriantation, the thing is huge and it isnt doing aerobatics. It was flying down wind level getting ready for a right hand turn. He's hardly going to turn Right. As the quote says below. From the man "stood next to Gordon". Something happened that Gordon was unable to recover from at that height.
There so much interest in this subject, why dont we focus some of it towards helping Gordon get started again...... Sent the guy a cheque!. If everyone who read this thread sent a pound he'd be well on the way to getting it back in the air.
May I suggest if you wish to help, send your contributions, Gordon Nichol at http://www.wren-turbines.com
ORIGINAL: Tarquill
Hi Guys,
As a crew member for the B-52 display team and co-constructoer of essential systems, it's time to set some rumours to rest. I was stood with Gordon as his helper at the fateful moment. The most important thing is, we are going to rebuild it, so it WILL return!! All of the original contributors have said YES to revive the project, so over the winter months, the "PHEONIX" will rise from the ashes!!!
As far as the flight was concerned, it flew PERFECTLY on two occasions the day before in similar weather conditions. The wind VELOCITY was NOT a factor in it's demise! After studying film footage for several hours, we are now convinced wind shear/turbulance was a major factor and this, coupled with the max bank angle allowed, made recovery impossible at that height. The crash site was quite a distance from the farmhouse and the owner was VERY supportive. His 75 year old mother had driven 30 miles ESPECIALLY to see it fly and he insisted it be rebuilt, so that she could see it again when she was 76!! There was damage to a tree and a stubble field had fire damage, but the Jet-A1 put paid to much of the structure(ie complete incineration)! The wonderful Wren 54's survived however and all but one engine could be spun by hand!! Surely a testament to their utter reliability and quality. Components will be used in the next build.
We have all been touched and humbled by the wishes and thoughts of so many of you guys out there and this has encouraged us to construct the "PHEONIX"!! It goes without saying that any contributions will be gratefully accepted and you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you had a small part in the construction of one of the most exciting models ever built.
Regards to you all.
Hi Guys,
As a crew member for the B-52 display team and co-constructoer of essential systems, it's time to set some rumours to rest. I was stood with Gordon as his helper at the fateful moment. The most important thing is, we are going to rebuild it, so it WILL return!! All of the original contributors have said YES to revive the project, so over the winter months, the "PHEONIX" will rise from the ashes!!!
As far as the flight was concerned, it flew PERFECTLY on two occasions the day before in similar weather conditions. The wind VELOCITY was NOT a factor in it's demise! After studying film footage for several hours, we are now convinced wind shear/turbulance was a major factor and this, coupled with the max bank angle allowed, made recovery impossible at that height. The crash site was quite a distance from the farmhouse and the owner was VERY supportive. His 75 year old mother had driven 30 miles ESPECIALLY to see it fly and he insisted it be rebuilt, so that she could see it again when she was 76!! There was damage to a tree and a stubble field had fire damage, but the Jet-A1 put paid to much of the structure(ie complete incineration)! The wonderful Wren 54's survived however and all but one engine could be spun by hand!! Surely a testament to their utter reliability and quality. Components will be used in the next build.
We have all been touched and humbled by the wishes and thoughts of so many of you guys out there and this has encouraged us to construct the "PHEONIX"!! It goes without saying that any contributions will be gratefully accepted and you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you had a small part in the construction of one of the most exciting models ever built.
Regards to you all.
There so much interest in this subject, why dont we focus some of it towards helping Gordon get started again...... Sent the guy a cheque!. If everyone who read this thread sent a pound he'd be well on the way to getting it back in the air.
May I suggest if you wish to help, send your contributions, Gordon Nichol at http://www.wren-turbines.com
09-03-2004, 10:31 AM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
How is the new plane going to be different ?
As a builder of large planes, I would think the new plane could be lighter
and have more control surfaces.. you know like more ailerons
Its my experence you can't have too much control. Its far more important
that it works well than have all the scale movements of spoilers ect..
Anyway it does not look like your going to tell us why the plane
crashed, but good luck with the next one...
Eddie Weeks
As a builder of large planes, I would think the new plane could be lighter
and have more control surfaces.. you know like more ailerons
Its my experence you can't have too much control. Its far more important
that it works well than have all the scale movements of spoilers ect..
Anyway it does not look like your going to tell us why the plane
crashed, but good luck with the next one...
Eddie Weeks
09-03-2004, 01:12 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
I think this is conclusive:
Gotta be a RH bank....it's a high wing AC....were it in a severe LH bank, the 'upper' wing would appear the shorter of the two at that (beyond 90-degrees) roll angle (indicated by the vert stab) because the fuse would mask the right wing root/inner wing just a bit. And it would be further away from the camera. Instead, the upper wing appears longer (as it does in the known silhouettes)....so can only be the left wing banked way over right...and it's closer to the camera, too.
Uh, I think
!
Ray
Gotta be a RH bank....it's a high wing AC....were it in a severe LH bank, the 'upper' wing would appear the shorter of the two at that (beyond 90-degrees) roll angle (indicated by the vert stab) because the fuse would mask the right wing root/inner wing just a bit. And it would be further away from the camera. Instead, the upper wing appears longer (as it does in the known silhouettes)....so can only be the left wing banked way over right...and it's closer to the camera, too.
Uh, I think
!Ray
09-03-2004, 01:21 PM
#167
RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
So according to Tarquills post. This 300lb monster was flying straight and level in 20 kts or so of wind, the pilot wasn't disorientated and it just fell out of the sky.
It wasn't related to wind velocity but caused by turbulence/windshear. It was straight and level so you should be able to discount windshear (which is change of wind velocity with height).
This still doesn't really clarify to me what happened. Are you saying it stalled? Was it just uncontrollable in the turbulence?
It wasn't related to wind velocity but caused by turbulence/windshear. It was straight and level so you should be able to discount windshear (which is change of wind velocity with height).
This still doesn't really clarify to me what happened. Are you saying it stalled? Was it just uncontrollable in the turbulence?
09-03-2004, 01:44 PM
#168
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
I spoke with someone else who witnessed the crash today, and without leading him into a left or right I asked him which way he thought it went, he said right. I asked again and he said "definitely right".
there wasnt any doubt in his mind.
I think were all getting caught be artefacts and low res videos.
there wasnt any doubt in his mind.
I think were all getting caught be artefacts and low res videos.
09-03-2004, 02:06 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
Hi,
I'm curious about the follow up on the accident. Since the CAA certified that it was OK to fly, do they do an investigation similar to a full scale crash and issue their findings? If they find a possible cause, could they put a ban on building another one or ban the pilot from flying it, assuming it was pilot error, and require that another pilot fly it?
Thanks,
Jon
I'm curious about the follow up on the accident. Since the CAA certified that it was OK to fly, do they do an investigation similar to a full scale crash and issue their findings? If they find a possible cause, could they put a ban on building another one or ban the pilot from flying it, assuming it was pilot error, and require that another pilot fly it?
Thanks,
Jon
09-03-2004, 07:39 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
ORIGINAL: daytona kid
there is a video ,from about 15 years ago ,of a real b52 going in, that looked a lot like this crash... i believe the pilot was blamed for turning to steeply in that crash.
there is a video ,from about 15 years ago ,of a real b52 going in, that looked a lot like this crash... i believe the pilot was blamed for turning to steeply in that crash.
Unfortunately for his crew, he was a pilot of the bold variety.
Daren
09-03-2004, 10:12 PM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
Here is a link to the Fairchild AFB full scale B-52 crash. Both are terrible, but this one cost lives.
http://www.simradar.com/Feature/2317...child_AFB.html
http://www.simradar.com/Feature/2317...child_AFB.html
09-04-2004, 04:00 AM
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b52 Crash site pictures
People have been asking for pictures of the crash scene
I've finally posted the ones I took on the day
[link]http://concordemfc.co.uk[/link]
David
I've finally posted the ones I took on the day
[link]http://concordemfc.co.uk[/link]
David
09-04-2004, 06:09 AM
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RE: Giant B-52 Destroyed
All 8 are in that pile.... Only 2 didnt burn and only one still turned.
The back ends seemed to have survived and could possibly be used again. but all the compressors were either damaged to destroyed.
Very sad
The back ends seemed to have survived and could possibly be used again. but all the compressors were either damaged to destroyed.
Very sad