K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
10-31-2004, 07:28 AM
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K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Can I get some information as to the differences in use in our turbines between the fuels K-1 Kerosene and Jet A? Thanks....
10-31-2004, 07:43 AM
#2
RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
There is no difference for us in use or performance, I've mixed gallons and gallons of the two to just about every different percentage mix. There simply just is no performance or temperature difference that I have ever seen or heard of based on witnessing thousands of flights and performing hundreds of flights.
Good Luck,
Sean
Good Luck,
Sean
10-31-2004, 07:53 AM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
I had heard someone say at the last jet fly I was at tell someone when they were having trouble starting their engine to switch to K-1 instead of Jet A..... why would that be?
10-31-2004, 08:01 AM
#6
RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Well, it's one of three things.
Either the person was a ton smarter than I am and knew something about how "weird" humidity conditions or some such nonsense would affect that particular engine less with a different fuel.
Guy was full of bull (My personal belief)
Guy knew there was no way the engine was going to run based on experiance and wanted the pilot to think he was an expert to think of such a novel idea, but regardless, I've never witnessed an engine that wouldn't run on one, and then miraculously ran on another. That's so far fetched to me, that I don't know anyone who's ever suggested that in the circles I run in.
I even won Roger Kirchner over to the concept this season. Roger doesn't run on this site, so he can't defend himself (that's ok, I've known him since I was 12 years old so I can get away with it). But Roger is an SWA Captain and was die hard that these engines had to run on Jet A. But after two years of watching me mix mix mix. This season he was low on fuel grabbed my jug and fueld up with the red dye kero and all. I about fell over watching his UAT get that red glow. He was smiling the whole time getting ready for another flight.
I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.
Also, Eddie Weeks of this site ran temp and rpm tests between the two. The recorded difference was not mentionable. It was essentially the same in his tests.
I've personally filled up half a tank of jet a, and then ran out, grabbed k1 and finished my fueling. I've done that a number of times in different percentages. It's the same.
Either the person was a ton smarter than I am and knew something about how "weird" humidity conditions or some such nonsense would affect that particular engine less with a different fuel.
Guy was full of bull (My personal belief)
Guy knew there was no way the engine was going to run based on experiance and wanted the pilot to think he was an expert to think of such a novel idea, but regardless, I've never witnessed an engine that wouldn't run on one, and then miraculously ran on another. That's so far fetched to me, that I don't know anyone who's ever suggested that in the circles I run in.
I even won Roger Kirchner over to the concept this season. Roger doesn't run on this site, so he can't defend himself (that's ok, I've known him since I was 12 years old so I can get away with it). But Roger is an SWA Captain and was die hard that these engines had to run on Jet A. But after two years of watching me mix mix mix. This season he was low on fuel grabbed my jug and fueld up with the red dye kero and all. I about fell over watching his UAT get that red glow. He was smiling the whole time getting ready for another flight.
I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.
Also, Eddie Weeks of this site ran temp and rpm tests between the two. The recorded difference was not mentionable. It was essentially the same in his tests.
I've personally filled up half a tank of jet a, and then ran out, grabbed k1 and finished my fueling. I've done that a number of times in different percentages. It's the same.
10-31-2004, 08:11 AM
#8
RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Yes, Jet A and K1 both require turbine oil in most cases.
You have to check with your engine manufacturer.
RAMs, TJT, FTE, and Jetcat so far as I know are a few good examples that require 1 quart to 5 gallons fuel.
You have to check with your engine manufacturer.
RAMs, TJT, FTE, and Jetcat so far as I know are a few good examples that require 1 quart to 5 gallons fuel.
10-31-2004, 09:04 AM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
If you spill Jet fuel in your truck it stinks worse and longer than K-1 or hardware version kerosene, why I'm not sure must be additives. After we add the turbine oil clear kerosene has an added stink factor but not as bad as Jet fuel plus turbine oil.
Lee
Lee
10-31-2004, 09:35 AM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Lee, thanks and that is important to me because I will be carrying my jet in my Astro Van and not in the back of a pickup or trailer so the odor given off is very important...Thanks again.....
10-31-2004, 04:42 PM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Jet A does contain anti-icing additives, and probably other chemicals, not necessary for model turbines. I think like so many here have said, whatever is cheaper and/or more convenient. But you are certainly not gaining any advantage by using "real" jet fuel, JMHO.
10-31-2004, 06:00 PM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
I used to carry my jets in an Astro Van too......when the time came, I had a hell of a time selling it because of the Jet-A smell. Musta spent $50.00 or $60.00 on soaps and perfumes to deodorizing the darned thing. Took about a year, but I finally managed to peddle it. I never did get all of the smell out, but your eyes wouldn't water anymore.
When I bought my Escalade, I bought a Pace American trailer to hook behind it....now the trailer smells bad too, but I don't care anymore.
Straight K-1 kero is much easier on the nose, but costs more. Five gallons at Home Depot goes for as much as $20.00 in San Diego.
My local FBO sells Jet-A for $2.00 per gallon right out of the truck, with no hassles. He always gives me a 10% case lot discount on turbine oil too.
Jet -A1 has the de-icing ingredients..........
Harley Condra
BVM REP
Team Jetcat
When I bought my Escalade, I bought a Pace American trailer to hook behind it....now the trailer smells bad too, but I don't care anymore.
Straight K-1 kero is much easier on the nose, but costs more. Five gallons at Home Depot goes for as much as $20.00 in San Diego.
My local FBO sells Jet-A for $2.00 per gallon right out of the truck, with no hassles. He always gives me a 10% case lot discount on turbine oil too.
Jet -A1 has the de-icing ingredients..........
Harley Condra
BVM REP
Team Jetcat
10-31-2004, 06:03 PM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
I use my Astro Van as my everyday vehicle to get to and from work so I think I better plan on K-1.. Thanks...
10-31-2004, 08:35 PM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
I had the same problem with Jet-A in my LX470. So I bought a 55 gal drum of K-1, the smell of K-1 is not near as bad!
The cost was $120.00 delivered. Grangers sells a slick drum caddy and valve for dispensing out of 55 gal drums.
I have several planes that I own and fly at our local airport so getting Jet-A was not a problem it was just the smell.
For those who whish to stick with jet-A. I found that putting a few Downey dryer wipes in my car and my airplane (when I would fly my R/C to a event that was far away) went a-long way to getting rid of the smell.
The cost was $120.00 delivered. Grangers sells a slick drum caddy and valve for dispensing out of 55 gal drums.
I have several planes that I own and fly at our local airport so getting Jet-A was not a problem it was just the smell.
For those who whish to stick with jet-A. I found that putting a few Downey dryer wipes in my car and my airplane (when I would fly my R/C to a event that was far away) went a-long way to getting rid of the smell.
10-31-2004, 08:55 PM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Well shoot here in Colorado I get my K-1 at a local fuel distributor Dugan Oil. They have K-1 year around the last time I bought some it was $1.92 a gal. In the winter trucking companies use a mix of K-1 and k-2 (normal diesel fuel). This is done because straight number k-2 will Begin to congeal (wax up) below 15 degrees. The darn turbine oil costs more than filling a five gallon jug.
Lee
Lee
10-31-2004, 09:13 PM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Try this trick I learned. Just place your jugs inside a large garbage bag and close it up anytime you have fuel jugs in a van or inside your vehicle. No smell that way. No spills. So simple, I don't know how I managed that 200 mile drive one time with the jugs in back and the heat...that was awful......on the way home (after learning the garbage bag trip) not a problem at all with smell.
03-06-2011, 09:43 AM
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RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Hi, I use K1 Kerosene for my Garage for safety reasons but it costs $6 per gallon so I am looking for a cheaper but still safe option and was told about Jet A fuel. I found this article on the net:
COMMENT FROM A READER ON "JET A" FUEL
Very few people know that common jet fuel is nothing but more highly refined (read: cleaner) kerosene. It works wonderfully in kerosene heaters, stoves, lamps, and lanterns. I'm an old retired aircraft mechanic and I've handled thousands of gallons of jet fuel. At airports large enough to service jets, you will find that jet fuel is very commonly available. Since the large fuel tanks and fuel trucks at an airport are "sumped" almost daily to remove moisture that can collect at the bottom of a tank, the few gallons drained off frequently is considered waste or close to it. Ask the right people and you might be able to get a few gallons for free. Just check it for a layer of water at the bottom in case it's present. NOTE: Jet A is not the same as JP-4. Do not use JP-4 in a kerosene heater.
Woody
Ed: In northern climes, anti-icing additives are often added at the pump nozzle instead of being pre-mixed with the fuel: Don't get the additives when obtaining Jet A for kerosene heater use. Aviation Fuel - Jet Fuel Information
Way I see it, since both of these fuel types are essentially "cleaner" kerosene then I don't see why it would not do the same job as the k1 but with the "additives" would this be as safe, any opinions please?
COMMENT FROM A READER ON "JET A" FUEL
Very few people know that common jet fuel is nothing but more highly refined (read: cleaner) kerosene. It works wonderfully in kerosene heaters, stoves, lamps, and lanterns. I'm an old retired aircraft mechanic and I've handled thousands of gallons of jet fuel. At airports large enough to service jets, you will find that jet fuel is very commonly available. Since the large fuel tanks and fuel trucks at an airport are "sumped" almost daily to remove moisture that can collect at the bottom of a tank, the few gallons drained off frequently is considered waste or close to it. Ask the right people and you might be able to get a few gallons for free. Just check it for a layer of water at the bottom in case it's present. NOTE: Jet A is not the same as JP-4. Do not use JP-4 in a kerosene heater.
Woody
Ed: In northern climes, anti-icing additives are often added at the pump nozzle instead of being pre-mixed with the fuel: Don't get the additives when obtaining Jet A for kerosene heater use. Aviation Fuel - Jet Fuel Information
Way I see it, since both of these fuel types are essentially "cleaner" kerosene then I don't see why it would not do the same job as the k1 but with the "additives" would this be as safe, any opinions please?
03-06-2011, 10:04 AM
#24
RE: K-1 Kerosene vs. Jet A Fuel Differences
Hi,
All I know is that when you spill Jet-A in your car or on your clothes, the smell never goes away. The smell goes away fine with Kero.
All I know is that when you spill Jet-A in your car or on your clothes, the smell never goes away. The smell goes away fine with Kero.
