samo

Flew four more flights with the Reaction yesterday,

Full brakes and full power. When I released the brakes the Reaction took off in at least 90 feet! We put the 72 ounce tank in the Reaction and get around 8 mins. I took off and landed with the full fuel and it didn't seem to matter when I landed. I think with the flap question, Take a little off the full flap. Maybe 40 degrees is perfect. Cut the power VERY EARLY with 70. I cut it before I make the final downleg turn. She will just float all the way in.

Andrew

maxvertical

Sorry for the delay Eddie. So far I have limited my flights at 5 min with the Kevlar cell plus UAT. I'm still in the early stages of getting to know the airplane but every single time I have landed with half fuel and sometimes above. My next step is going to be 6 min and have a good feeling that I will have 7 or maybe 8 minutes in the end with a fair reserve. While I don't roam around at full throttle all the time, I'm an aggressive flier and at 3/4 throttle it gets with the program. 1/2 throttle patterns are very easy with this bird. Full power on a pass and into the vertical has it going to dot high. With the 76oz or so fuel on board I don't see a problem getting seven if not eight minutes as Samo suggests. I'm just taking my time getting there, just to make sure I don't overstep. Most of the flying I've done is above half throttle so feel real good about the seven minutes. If you'd like I can pass along the fuel burn numbers the 70 has been giving. In short, if I had to do it again, the 72 kevlar plus UAT is a great combo with the P-70. No regretts at all.
Chris

maxvertical

Well figured I'd pass along the numbers anyway, maybe someone else might want to compare. Both flights were done at apprx 3500' elevation and 80 degree day, a bit more than standard LOL. Anyway, flight #7 was 8 minutes 6 Seconds with a fuel burn 1271ml or 42.9 oz. Average RPM was 79,100. Flight #8 same day, 2 hours later, 9 minutes 16 seconds with a fuel burn of 1442ml or 48.77 oz. Average RPM 77,600. Actually flight #8 was more aggressive than #7 but the average is off due to ground time. All flight times were at 5 min on the clock. I did overshoot 40 some seconds on flight #8. I use a taxi tank and unplug when I'm ready to take off, and that's when I start my timer, same time I unplug the taxi tank. Hope that helps put your mind at ease. I think you'll have plenty of ponies with the P-70 and with the 76oz of fuel on board should be good enough to get good flight times.

Chris

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks for those numbers Chris. That is "Exactly" what I was looking for! The next few flights I put on I'll try to get some numbers for the P-60 like you did just in case anyone is interested.

My painting progress has been at a snails pace, we have a new son at home as of a little over a month ago, so as expected time to play in the shop has been curtailed. But every once in a while I get a couple minutes here and there. I expect to even go flying again this next week!

I decided against the Suez Canal "invasion stripes" in favor of simple yellow identification stripes - It was getting pretty busy with all those colors and thought it best to keep the look subtle to avoid hitting the invisible "too cluttered" mark that you can't tell where it is until you've gone beyond. Same principle as weathering I suppose.

I've got all the little markings to apply - ejection seat warnings, stenciling, some more weathering - and the wings to finish up. I'm getting pretty close to finished, and that's always good when it's time to fly anyway.

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Chris, I'm waiting for Capitol Jets in Albany New York before I make the final decision. It will be a P70 or the latest SimJet 1200/18. The SimJet is a few ounce lighter and smaller in diameter by .2". Only issue is, they won't be available till August. Bruce tells me he has a P70 ready now. I guess it depends a lot on my building progress also. I sheeted the last wing leading edge panel this evening. I "wasted" all day yesterday at an airshow in Rhode Island with the Blue Angels and an F22 flight demo. I do engineering work on the F22 exhaust nozzle so I just had to see it fly. Today I spent at the flying field just relaxing with a little flying thrown in. While relaxing I caught myself dreaming about putting the R54 in the back of my Dodge Dakota. I don't think it will fit with the tailgate closed. That's a lot of airplane! I'll keep you all posted on progress.

maxvertical

Eddie, glad to help at least some. Still love what you're doing with your airplane, looks great! Still flying mine in grey primer which is a bit of a challenge against a cloudy sky. If I was smart I'd paint black primer stripes. Was trying to get into paint by now, but just hasn't happened yet. Love the mods.

John, sounds like you've got a good bead on what you want and you'd probably be happy with either of those engines. To give you inspiration, I'm not a pro builder by any stretch but had a box of wood the first week in Jan, did the first flight May 23rd, and that's with a couple three weeks of down time waiting on gear parts. So while it looks like a real task, it does go pretty quick. Just stick with it and you'll be flying before you know it. It's the finest flying R/C model I've ever flown as far as smooth, stable, solid and just fun to fly. With the 70 it does go if you push the throttle up, so I couldn't be happier. I know you'll feel the same when the time comes.

Chris

Almost forgot John. Have one of the shorter bed Ford F150's and mine won't go in straight. I put mine in at an angle and it just fits. Have a shell on, so put the wing on the shelf of the shell and it rides fine. But then I have those goofy wing tips that prevent it from sliding around too much. Guess you'll just have to experiment a bit.

DP01

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks to inspiration from Eddie P, I now have 2 R54's. OK maybe only 1.01 R54's but with two distinct personalities. From one angle, it almost seems to have a Voodoo appearance.

Dennis

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

!!Dennis, that is WAY too cool!! What clear canopy did you use? I like the idea of having two canopies structures, I never even thought about making an entirely new one. That is the way to go if you are sitting on the fence and worried your plane might have some down time while you hack and cut away at a perfectly good canopy.

Curiously, do you notice any differences in stability/control between the two canopies? I'm sure with this setup you may have already done a back to back comparison.

DP01

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Eddie - the idea came from you! The front half of the canopy is just clear plastic sheet, the rear half is most of a Sig 15" bubble canopy. I made the formers from 1/4" aircraft grade ply. The framing is 1/64" ply.

The grass is a little too dry at the moment for aiming a blowtorch at it (as you can see from the photo's) so I haven't flown it in the new configuration. I expect that the increased side area will aid knife edge, but we'll see after (if) we get any rain here.

Dennis

Sonicwings

Hi Guys,

Well i have to say what a fantastic Model, And Group of guys---- ive spent a fair bit of time reading through this thread and wow, what a lot of info and ideas shared---- Bruce's kit takes me,and im sure a lot of others who have modeled for a lot of years back to the days of wood building,and of pattern ships of old, when manuvers were big and flowing---- and i do luve the smell of balsa dust and the satisfaction of building and sanding---
Currently putting together a COMP ARF Rookie 11, but i have to say i am not that much a fan of full composite and painted in the mould---- hard going to work on it and keep the paint in good condition--- and thats assuming one conciders it good in the first place--- myself well im disapointed in the paint, and moulded seam lines, and a few other things--- but yea im fussy---

Eddie p,
I am realy Taken by your 54, what you have done is nothing short of shear AWSOME, and is close to inspiring me to look into ordering one of these fine kits---- looking foward to seeing more progress and pics--- hope it flys as good as she looks--- sure it will---

DP01,
Your second hatch with canopy makes your bird look soooooo completly different, AWSOME job and a great idea to do a second hatch assembly as Eddie mentioned---- looking foward to a flying report after you get to try her out---- good luck with that----
Keep up the great posts guys,
best regards Jay.

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

Jay, you are in the right place. This R54 group is a good mix of guys. Thank you for your kind words, I'm just doing my little part to add some variety to mix

I've been inspired, in every, way by the awesome work these R54 builders and owners display - from the "outside the box" mods guys like Mark Palmer and Warren Hunter did on their inlet and fuselage mods (there are others too), and other guys with super clean equipment installations and mods that I can only aspire to imitate at some point. Come on in, hang out and stay a while. Post some pictures of your jet for us to see in the various stages, too!

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Chris and All, Last week I bit the bullet and called Bruce for the P70. To many if's about the Sim Jet, what with availability and contacting Denmark. Although I have talked to Kerry Sterner and US service doesn't appear to be a problem. But you can't service what you don't have. So a P70 is in the mail. Should have it 7/5. The plane is well on its way. The wings are built and near ready to join. I moded the wing servo installation so the servos are inside the wing instead of exposed. The gear is installed but I'm waiting for the wheels and brakes before I final cut the axles to length. Fully sheeted wing with .7 oz glass and Klass Kote. I'm borrowing the Patrouille Suisse Airshow Team color scheme. I sketched it out and it really gives the R54 a long sleek look. Some add on intakes will really set it off.

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

The Swiss airshow scheme will look great on a R54, John! Can't wait to see more. Your idea to mount the servos inside the wing is really nice, it negates the mod I did on servo fairings for mine. I vaccu-formed some styrene covers that mount with BVM flush mount screws to the wing surface and aerodynamically soften the partially exposed servos. I also added some Graupner gap sealing tape to the ailerons. I ran out of it and didn't have enough for the flap underside - it would have looked nice but it isn't necessary with the mostly sealed off topside of the flap (not that gap seals are truly necessary anyhow but a little here and there cleans up the drag count..) In case anyone is wondering, Graupner gap seal tape is thick yet flexible plastic that is sticky on the bottom, for half the width of the tape (that attaches to the stab or wing) - the non stick half of the bottom covers the gap and a bit of the control surface. It is used on 200 mph gliders so I'm sure it is up to task for this application.

I am finishing up on the wing detailing finally. I'll add the decals today and more details as time allows (the paint looks rough because it is, I hadn't knocked down the over spray with 1500 grit yet when I snapped the photos). I'll probably go flying with it again in a "nearly finished" state tomorrow. I'm glad I've been flying it during the finishing process as it has taken longer than expected calendar wise - time wise it has been normal, if I had the spare time in bulk I could have hacked it out in a matter of a week or so.

DP01

My Feedback: (1)

I was able to fly my R54 with the modified canopy today. I copied the original Futaba 9c program to retain the original in the event that there were significant trim changes. With the new canopy, only four beeps of up trim were needed. All other trims were unaffected. I guess the canopy provides a downward push.

The trim change seemed pretty consistent throughout the speed range, with perhaps a very minor climbing tendency at about ¼ throttle. Subjectively, it seemed as though knife edge in point rolls was a little better. There was no tendency to push or tuck in knife edge. Again subjectively, the general handling of Bruce's marvelous flying machine seemed unchanged.

The bottom line is that the added canopy does affect the trim, however it imparts only a minor change in the pitch axis.

Dennis

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

Cool!

Was the balance point the exact same with both canopies?

DP01

My Feedback: (1)

Excellent point Eddie - I didn't even think about that. The original cover weighs 6oz and the canopy version weighs 14oz. The CG moved forward about ¼", and that would account for some of the need for up trim.

I intend to fly the R54 in both configuarations so I won't make any changes to the CG, especially considering the overall handling appears to be unchanged. If any R54 builders need additional nose weight however, adding a canopy would be a painless way to achieve this.

Dennis

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Dennis, I can see it would be a small and easy thing to overlook, and fairly inconsequential at that on this design. I picked up on it right away only because for every ounce in weight gain I picked up in the new canopy, I was able to take out about 1/2 ounce of dead weight / lead in the nose while keeping the same CG location. But then, I don't have a stock canopy to switch between so I've just went with the lead removal as a permanent solution to my CG.

Out of curiosity, do you notice any handling differences in the flare with the more forward CG? Maybe it's pretty imperceptible?

DP01

My Feedback: (1)

Eddie:

There does not seem to be any difference in the flare. For the record, the original CG was at 7". I fly the R54 with the following control surface deflections. I don't use exponential. Low rates are per the book (except differential) but I only use the higher rates.

Ailerons: 7/8" up, 5/8" down. (I found that the additional differential makes the roll more axial)
Elevator: 7/8" up, 7/8" down.
Rudder: 1-3/4" left and right.
Flaps: 45º landing, 15º takeoff. (1/32" down elevator at 45º flap).

I also use 7/16" crow on the ailerons at 45º flap. This provides a very predictable glideslope and slows to a walk if needed.

Dennis

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

UPS indicates that my P70 is "out for delivery". That means when I come home from work today it will be Christmas in July!!! While the R54 is in the building stage I'd like to mount the engine on a test bed and learn the start, run and shutdown techniques. I have set up my transmitter throttle positions and failsafe. Any suggestions or photos for a test bed would be appreciated. I thought that mounting on a 3/4" plywood base with pads for the components, fuel, gas and engine should suffice. I can clamp the plywood base to one of the starting stands at the field and play from there. By the way , Jet Cat recommends a Co2 fire extinguisher. Have you priced a Co2 extinghisher lately!!!!!? Nearly 10 time the cost of a powder type unit. Other than the potential to gum up the internals on the engine what other concerns are there with a powder type extinguisher?

bob1393

My Feedback: (10)

John - do not use a dry chemical (powder type) fire extinguisher. It will ruin your turbine. Use CO2 or Halatron. CO2 is cheaper.

Bob

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Bob. I just hope I never have to use the Co2. At $100 for a 5# bottle, I want to have it for a long time. I know that with the big turbines that I work with at Pratt & Whitney, we pull an engine down after the fire bottles are discharged. It plugs up cooling passages and it's corrisive to the hot parts. I believe it's Halon.

BruceTharpe

My Feedback: (1)

I actually found a local store (using the yellow pages) that sells fire fighting equipment. They had a selection of refurbished C02 extinguishers; picked mine up for about $50.

Dennis - Outstanding! I applaud your creativity!

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

I believe most aircraft turbine engines still use Halon 1211 due to the effectiveness. I do know some used dry chemical years ago in some cases, and that was really a maintenance intensive situation after a discharge. The big difference between a full size engine fire fighting scenario and a model turbine scenario is that in our circumstance, we are primarily fighting a small spot fire caused by, most likely, a pooling for fuel or small torch with low RPM so the flame hangs out in the local area possibly igniting other flammable materials on or within the model. We have to shoot at the engine itself, in the inlet area, etc. It's highly likely the CO2 (or whatever you are using) will get INSIDE the engine. Whereas in the full scale scenario a very focused and concentrated burst of halon goes to the outside of the engine case and the nacelle / accessories area with little chance of ingestion within the engine. So even while some dry powder has been used in the past with full scale, it never went "inside" the engine by design.

I have a feeling the "plugging up" of the engine thing on the full size stuff (after firing the halon) is due to the "squibb" or gunpowder blasting cap material as well as general metal shrapnel that gets inside the Halon direction plumbing as a by product of breaking the fire bottle seal to activate the halon gas, but I could be way off base too!

John, I have two extra aircraft cabin halon extinguishers, the 2.5 pound variety, decent size and pretty portable - if you can't find a reasonable CO2 extinguisher on the refurbished market let me know. I tried Ebay, I thought I might be able to get a decent deal but one guy's buddies kept out bidding me every time and the same extinguisher would go up again afterwards on a new listing so I said to heck with it and bought my refurbished and hydrostatic tested 10 pound CO2 bottle locally from a fire refurbishing company for $90 - no shipping, got it one day after I called. You can probably get them for 50 bucks somewhere but I never had any luck with that option that didn't involve phantom bidding on ebay or "wait and see what comes in over the next couple months" scenarios. Lots of nickels and dimes needed for the "extras", do you have your fuel station yet?

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Ed, it appears you are up on your fire extinguisher knowledge. We have a fire extinguisher servicer not far from home that I am trying to get in touch with. He should have something I can work with.

Fuel system? Yes, I have been collecting the necessaries. I have the 50 oz tank from the kit which I will use initially. I also purchased a "Super Trap" header tank from Dreamworks. Fuel will come from the FBO at a local regional airport and Aero Shell 500 oil is being sought after from another FBO at our major airport. I could probably get the oil from a 55 gallon barrel in one of our test stands but that could be carrier shortening. The only equipment I'm missing is a fueling system. I like the Jersey Modeler system but the price scares me.

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

Yup, that is what I was talking about. Lots of nickels and dimes my friend! I looked here on RCU and was always a day late when someone was selling theirs for cheap. In the end I bought a new 5 gallon setup from Fisher Fuel Products. The prices are high in my estimation for the Jersey type units (like what I have) but I was short on time so my time was money. Also, a new system keeps my car clean from no leaks and has proven itself worthy of easy trouble free operation - a no brainer that in the end I suppose I am very happy with aside from initial wallet grumbles.

Look on the home made fuel station threads for tips if you want to make your own for about 75-100 bucks.