Cooper

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Guys

I have used the standard K-36 Primer to coat the inside of my jets in the past. I was wondering if this is epoxy based or if is contains the unfriendly isocyanates. I have always used a 3M respirator with this product, but I want to make sure I have the proper protection. Is there any other, perhaps newer safer primer to use?

Thanks

Greg Anixter

patf

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k-36 contains isos. there is a non or low iso epoxy primer out there..ncp250. unfortunately it is not a nice light primer gray, but a odd purplish gray.

i think i am going to punt on the whole issue and get the forced air hobby air respirator so i can use the good stuff without worry.

DavidR

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Greg,

The forced air respirator I am using (Hobbyair) will set you back around $400 but what is your health worth?????? Cheap insurance IMHO.

Cooper

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Hi David

I do have the Hobby Air and use it for basecoat-clearcoating. As a matter of fact I think I purchased it on your advice several years ago. I was mistaken regarding the K-36 because I thought it was epoxy based rather that isocyanates and I brush prime rather than spray the interior of the fuse.

It does seem to me that there is probably a true epoxy based primer for that application out there, that would be a little safer. I just wondered if anybody has found it.

My next finish will be Model Masters, but I will still have the clearcoat to apply so the forced air respirator will get a workout.

Thanks for the advice from all.

BRG

GA

G.VITTINI

use a new cartrige respirator, wear gloves, in a well ventelated area, use the lowest possible air setting, do not spray your face, or wash your hands with it and you'll be fine, and hopefully you don't do this very often, these materials are intended for full time repetetive professional use, NCT primers are ISO free, PPG also has DP epoxy primers but they contain ISOS, an easy solution that I found works great is LUSTREKOTE by TOP FLIGHT it's in aerosol can fuel proof excellent adhesion slightly glossy easy to clean and available in different shades, hope this helps. george

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

You need to reread the K201 catalyst can again, the catalyst contains isocynates. Read the literature on ANY cartridge type respirator and it will say not approved for isocynates. You should take this stuff very seriously, isocynates are absorbed through your skin, through your tear ducts, inhaled etc... and are cumulative. They won't go away once introduced into your body.

Cooper

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Thanks George & David for the replies. David if you can actually read the print on the catalyst can you have a lot better eyes than me.
BRG
Greg Anixter

gibb

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If you've seen David fly, you know he has good eyesight.

Jet Lag

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Try Klasscote 2 part epoxy primer.I believe there are no isos in it.

seanreit

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If you've seen David's cokebottle glasses you know why [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

patf

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ppg has all the msds forms online and even thankfully for me who finally gets to paint in the wee hours, all the mixes as well.

http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/

DavidR

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I can read the back of the PPG can, not every word but if I am searching for a particular word I can pick it out. BTW I do have good eyes as long as they are corrected, without my glasses I can't see squat. Ditto what Pat said about the MSDS sheets.

rcpete347

My Feedback: (251)

HI all,to get the big picture of whats going on when we spray i assume what we are doing is turning a can of mysterious chemicals into gaseous isocynates which if all goes well it ends up in the atmosphere.So my question is, after we have sprayed and the model are the isocynates still been released into the air( gasing off ).
The reason I ask is that I cann"t go down to the basement for a few days , it stinks so bad.
Rcpete

patf

My Feedback: (4)

rcpete

i'd be makin cookies for the boys at the local body shop to make me some friends fast. if you can smell it, if your dog can smell it and if your wife (or significant other) can smell it, there is a good chance you all are building up iso's in your blood.

i would look at the nelson line of paints which are water based, or some other alternative then have the boys at the shop do the clear coat in a booth.

rcpete347

My Feedback: (251)

Well if its not the paint that kills you ,it might be the toxic jet fuel we burn or maybe the toxic glue, and if that doesn"t get you their"s always the skin cancer from the sun.
Have a Merry Christmas everyone.
Rcpete

G.VITTINI

Like I said, Dave, keep it off your face, hands, use a well-ventilated area, common sense, etc. If you keep overspray to a minimum and use a two-stage mask (dust filter and activated charcoal) very little( for the small amount of use) should be introduced to your system. I guess your not a smoker and never entered a bar before, and maybe you should stay of the streets you could get killed. George

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

This is a quote directly from the MSDS sheet for the K201 catalyst, this is the catalyst used with the K36 primer.

"Repeated exposure to high vaopur concentrations may cause irritation of the respiratory system and permanent brain and nervous system damage"


"Repirator, use a NIOSH approved positve-pressure air supplied respirator for the entire time of spraying and until all vaoprs and mists are gone."


A close friend of mine painted a freshly restored corvette about 10 years ago. He used Base coat clearcoat system with a catalysed clearcoat. This guys was a professional body shop man and had been using these paints for years, at work with the proper equipment. He painted this car in his home shop with a standard "mask" like you are recommending. He sprayed his clearcoat on Saturday afternoon in a closed shop, he followed the same procedure you are recommending. That evening he complained of a tightness in his chest, and irritation of his throat and chest, he died on the Sunday morning......guess what killed him.

Make your own choices about your health but don't be so cavalier that you give misinformation to people that might actually care about their personal health. BTW isocyanate exposure is a cumulative effect. Educate yourself before you try to educate the rest of us.


BTW how often do you change your cartiridges? How do you store those cartiridges? Did you know that if you leave the charcoal filtring cartridges exposed in your shop they last about 8 hours?

atcbi5

My Feedback: (3)

Just pick a day that is windy, then shoot with the wind preferably to your neighbors home. I killed my neighbor’s dog by accident that way, that K-36 and any of the PPG two part products will do that. Anyhow, the dog was a pain in the rear and my neighbor is too. I have painted a dozen jets and warbirds, but he just keeps on ticking. Still no sign of any "Irritation of the respiratory system and permanent brain and nervous system damage". The next thing I want to try to do is to take the BBQ to the front lawn light it up and maybe he will come out to smell the ribeye mixed with the Flex and Flat 2060(by the way an excellent product) and the mist will just hang in the surrounding atmosphere just long enough to cause "Irritation of the respiratory system and permanent brain and nervous system damage". I will keep you guys posted.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

David, can you PM me a link for the positive air system you suggest at $400.00, I'd sure appreciate it. I made friends with a mercedes paint booth guy last year and did the F-15 in his booth, it was the type of booth where there is a downdraft, but reading this thread suggests that maybe the filtering in that booth wasn't even enough to protect us all. My buddy was wearing a cartridge mask and I wasn't. I shoot the PPG primers at home with a cartridge mask, I never stored it in the garage, that just didn't make sense to me, but never thought I could have been hurting it by keeping in the shop. Regardless, I'm a newbie paint guy with only two paint jobs I've been associated with and know I'll be painting more and more as I progress in the hobby. Would like to get the right equipment now rather than later.

Anyway, thanks in advance,

Sean

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Oh, and you described before two different types of hoods and that you had wished one over the other, can you tell me which it was that you thought would have been bettter (I wear glasses too, but don't really need them for close up stuff)

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Sean,

It's the Hobbyair system and as soon as I can remember where I got it from I will post a link here. I use the full hood and a shoot suit, and wear heavy latex gloves (thicksters). My booth is not a downdraft system but I do have a strong exhaust fan in the room. and filter the incoming fresh air from the rest of the shop.


www.autobodystore.com I got the Hobbyair 2 system I guess it was around $450, give them a call when you get ready to order it. The guy I talked to was very helpfull.

Cooper

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Guys
I did purchase a Hobby Air based on David R's advice some years ago. The Manufactuers website is http://axispro.com/

As David has so correctly pointed out the isocyanates build up in your system so the effect is cumulative. That means you can use them 11 times with fans and masks and on the 12th drop dead. Also, I store my cartridge masks in a freezer bag when not in use, but you have to keep them fresh. You can not drag out a 12 month old mask and start spraying stuff around.

All this is sort of the reason why was looking for an epoxy based alternative to the K-36. I appreciate the information on the Klass Kote. I may order some to check it out, but there are a lot of auto products out there, and I think a visit to my local paint store might be in order.

BRG
GA

patf

My Feedback: (4)

cooper

i think you hit it on the head there. the guys at the shop are typically a tremendous help. on the ppg website, there must be twenty different primer surfacer products.. there might be another that will suit your need. till then i'd use the hobby air

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

David,

Would you prefer the Tyvek hood with 1/2 mask or the non-mask hood option?

Maybe it's just me.. but it seems like the $500 or so you'll spend on protecting yourself is worth just the peace of mind alone.

Wren Turbines USA

My Feedback: (39)

This is the only way to spray products that contain isocynate.

Stay safe, stay healthy.


Happy holidays,
Ron Ballard