P-51B

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I guess the point is that ARFs shouldn't even be allowed.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Other than BVM and Yellow, who else can you call to order a jet and will have it in stock shipped on teh same day? Not a whole bunch.
I called several manufacturers last week and they all had lead times, as little as 3 weeks and as much as months.
I think the decrease in display at Toledo reflects the reality of the business. Modelers rely more on online business and delayed shipment, especially when it comes to the upper end models. Very few feel safe to stock.

Maybe they should do an online model expo or something, add discount incentives during the event, and have live chat for discussion. That's what we do here anyway.

My 2000 cents.

Since you've already read this post, how about some more .91 size Ducted Fan models?
Boy it sucks being a DF flyer, there is next to nothing out there, just the leftovers from you fellow turbine flyers.

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

I remember that, too.
Now ya gotta know the rules for Toledo...........................................A LL jet aircraft are in ONE class................................Doesn't matter if you designed it ( Drew the SCALE plans, made all the molds yourself, made all your own parts and are never gonna make another one) (No jets in Precision Scale class,by the way) or paint an ARF Sport jet up fancy or paint an ARF scale plane up fancy, or build someones' kit.................................ALL ARE IN THE SAME CLASS.........................

THERE Should be TWO classes, IMHO. Sport AND Scale.!!!!!!!!!! Maybe there would be more show up????????????

I'll climb down from my soap box now. LOL

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Some Pictures Walt and I took at Toledo:

Terry Holston

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More:

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Not a jet, but here is what Walt Carnes (Builder) and I (Pilot) were showing:

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

Jet Arrows had their WILD HORNET on display. MiboUSA www.mibousa.com

And a 50% scale GEE BEE took Sport Mono Plane, why it was not in a scale class I DUNO

lets try again on pictures

JET FX

Are MiboUSA importing the Wild Hornet?

spacemonkey

My Feedback: (-1)

Hey Terry,who`s kitting that F-15?Do you know the spec`s?It look`s bigger than the current 15`s on the market.


Thanks
mike

AirPac Models

The F-15 is Yellow F-15. this is current production, no size change. Shaun Evans @ Yellow Aircraft can give you more information about this plane.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

The 50% GeeBee was an impressive model. Of course the thing that interest me the most was the fact that he can probably get a waiver to fly that thing, with essentially an ultralight engine in the nose, easier than we can get a waiver to fly a large jet[]
Tommy

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Tommy,
We can't get a waiver! Turbine models are specifically excluded from the experimental category.
Jon

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

How much does it weigh?
Think he can get a wavier for it, do you?
I would think that a half-scale gee bee is going to be way over 100 pounds, and not under AMA insurance. Be it rubber power, jetex, turbine, whatever.
And it's all DAVE BROWN's fault. It's the old boy network over in muncie becoming fat catz on our dime. They have new marble floors in the excutive washroom.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Nice big fat juicy jug!
What kind of finish is that on the metal parts?

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

My point exactly. I pointed it out to an AMA rep who was there. I pointed to the small Jet Hangar Hobbies Skyray with the Wren 44 and the Gee Bee and asked him which one was liable to do the most damage and which represented the biggest threat...Needless to say he refused to answer my question.[X(]

Tommy

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

EasyTiger,
I don't have a beef with you. I did not mention Dave Brown by name, but if you think that there is not a bias against certain elements of the R/C community by the powers that be, then you need to crawl back under the rock you came out of. I personally have seen it and experienced it, but I have refused to air the dirty laundry here. I too have met DB, and do not have problem with him, he was very personable. However, to show me a 1/2 scale Gee Bee that has to weigh well over 100 pounds, that was built to fly and say it does not represent as much risk as a turbine is enough to put a goat in my drawers.
We will just agree to disagree about this issue since I don't have the time to just argue for the sake of argument, life is too short.
Tommy

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Dave Brown, and the EC who actually VOTES on that kind of thing, AGREES, and a Gee Bee that weighs over 100 pounds cannot be "waviered" or otherwise fly under AMA insurance. No beef, but it seems like a lot of people hate the AMA under rather baseless premises. Some have cause, but a lot just don't have their facts straight.
DB does NOT hate turbines. That's just not so. It's not true.

ps2727

Doc,
I had the same discussion with friends at Toledo --- the Jet Hangar F4d with the Wren 44 vs. the big Gee Bee. Hopefully as the turbine part of the hobby expands the AMA will rethink its policies and take a more even handed approach. Making rules can be a messy business but I think there will be many more little turbine models than big Gee Bees so maybe removing some of the barriers will be beneficial.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

I agree. Hopefully pointing out things like this to the EC and writing letters to address this, in a civil tone, will go much further toward changing the rules. I learned a long time ago that standing, stomping, screaming and insulting those in charge, will not get me my way...at least it hasn't worked with my wife.
Larry Wolfe was passing out a flier which I would urge all the turbine fliers to read and if you feel strongly about those facts, please address a letter to Illiona (sp) at AMA before the Turbine Committee meets in May.
Tommy

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

The fact that the Gee Bee is NOT AMA "legal" and the Wren44/Skyray IS kind of takes the wind out of the sails of your arguments.

You know what? About 50% of what you read on the internet is complete BS(of which I myself generate a good 38% of that 50%) but when it comes to the AMA, that ratio goes up to 90%. Or better.

Listen to the posts above. Listen to the "logic" of the "arguments" against AMA regulation, whatever it is they are against...then tell me...do most of these people spouting out against AMA and their turbine policies have ANY idea of what they are talking about? Nope. None.
In the meanwhile, there ARE other people who are a little more cognizant of the issues at stake who are working WITH the AMA, and not copping out by saying "oh, there is BIAS against us by DB and the EC..."

Oh, well, same-old same-old. Here we have someone complaining, but the very heart of their complaint is totally, completely invalid.
The Gee Bee is not an AMA plane. The Skyray is. So, if I was your "AMA rep" and you cornered me and you could not figure THAT part out, but you still had all sorts of ideas about how everything was supposed to run, I'd probably not give an answer either.
Sorry, but enough is enough. You want to help? Deal with facts, learn the rules, learn the issues, and drop the "AMA(or DB) is the adversary" attitude, because it's not true, and the people have voted very strongly to keep him on, so that's what we have to work with.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Easytiger,
Obviously you have misunderstood my point. I never said that the Skyray was not an "AMA" legal plane. What I was referring to was the fact that it is EASIER for someone with an AMA card to go out and fly the Gee Bee than it is for someone to get and maintain a waiver to fly the turbine. You can rant, rave and protect the powers that be all you will. I NEVER here blamed the AMA for that, but sounds to me like you protest too much.
Thankfully you are not my AMA rep. Your animosity here is becoming more evident by the day. What you should take from this is that there is discontent among the members and it should be addressed, although we both know it will never end.
In regards to the basis of my statement let me explain. In order to get a waiver now, it requires three signatures and a "flight test". I don't disagree with this, heck I think there ought to be one for most facets of this hobby, even the giant scale fliers. What I do disagree with is a signature by a notary public....c'mon. Any NP worth their while should require all the parties with signatures to be present for the notarization, or else why even require it. Since this is the case, how many people will actually have ALL three of those there for the notarization, or better yet find the required folks if they live in a desolate area. ANd if you let those get by, why should those that live in a non-desolate area not be able to do the same?. In order to keep your waiver, a flight log book is to be kept, reckon how many non-turbine fliers out there really keep an accurate log book, since this is really a hobby and not a job? These rules are ridiculous, and they are all made up to make it harder to have and keep turbine fliers. which hurts businesses, clubs, organizations (JPO and the AMA). I am not going to bash the AMA for this, part of it is our fault, but continuing to ostracize the turbine fliers is detremental to both parties.
The rabid attacks of the AMA by some is only shadowed by your blind following and failure to see any compromise. Remember Easytiger, it's not really paranoia if they are out to get you....

ps2727

Easytiger,
You have a good point, the GB is not an AMA legal plane. But if it were under the weight limit the process to get a waiver seems to be less complex than getting and keeping a turbine waiver for even a small model. That is my point. If the goal is to discourage widespread use of turbines in model airplanes this current policy is a good start in that direction. I am not an AMA basher - I'm a life member. But that doesnt' mean I can't disagree with a policy now and then, and for now I will abide by the rules or simply not fly a turbine. If the rules are too restrictive I fear that many turbine flyers will go outside the AMA guidelines and that would not be a good thing for the hobby.

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Aluminum (Flight Metal)

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

PICTURE OF THE BEAST

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Good post, but:
The process to get a wavier for over 55-100 pound demo modellers is HARDER than to get a turbine wavier...and, last I looked...only a dozen or so guys had them. Under 55 pounds? Just another airplane.

The second part, I am not a blind follower, I can find plenty of things wrong with AMA, I disagree, for example, with tiered memberships, and some other things.
And some provisions of some of the turbine wavier process. But that does not mean I think AMA is out to get turbines.