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Old 11-11-2011, 05:20 AM
  #3276
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Iam using Gaspars ECU on a 1400.... See my noted below in red

Quote:
ORIGINAL: OzJetBoy

I hope someone can give me some advice on setting up a JJ-1400 with a genuine Xicoy V.10 FADEC

Recently I purchased a JJ1400 kit from Jet Joe and following his instructions and the information found on this forum assembled the engine

I decided for the electronics to purchase from Gaspar his Xicoy FADEC V.10, Gas and Fuel Solenoids, RPM Sensor and Thermocouple and a Flightworks 200C pump.

I have setup the FADEC with the default settings as Gaspars document suggests and have been able to run the engine first time without any real troubles (except for adjusting the gas flow) - so I am quite happy with that.

The problems that I'm having are:
1. On the cool-down cycle, the FADEC generates a Starter Overload error and this stops spinning the rotor. (Also is it normal what once an error has been generated that the FADEC will not respond unless it is reset - for initiating manual cool-down)... Ihad this as well and thought it was the starter as I went to an Orion Baja motor. I think the issue was draggy bearings.
2. On Start-up, getting the gas flow right - Too Much and it wont light, too little it lights and goes out when the engine in spooled up. Ive found that if I open the valve gradually after it lights the engine will continue with the start sequence check fadec settings shown
3. Time it takes to bring the engine to idle rpm and stabilise it seems to take forever. Do I need to adjust the Pump Start Ramp value? See fadec values shown

I think part of the issue is that you need to setup the ECUaccording to JJparameters.The exception to JJsetup for me wasPump Start point being lower with FW pump, Glow power lower and the ramp points are different. Ihave noted all of the settings below with exception of one or two that I could not find.

Email me directly if you need more help wh this.


The FADEC settings are:
Full Power: 160,000 rpm (however I have set the limit to 100,000 rpm during initial setup and familiarisation with the engine) OK
Idle: 45,000 rpm OK
Stop: 20,000 rpm OK
Start Temperature: 100C OK
Max Temperature : 800C OK
Acceleration Delay: 015 Ihave mine at 20
Deceleration Delay: 015 OK
Stability: 100 I have mine at 50
Pump Limit: 1020 you should adjust this to vicintiy of where PW is when running. Probably set to 500.
Pump Start : Auto + 2
Pump Start Ramp: 006 Ihave mine @ 002 for FW 200 pump
Glow Plug: 1.5V OK >> Xicoy runs higher power to Glow plugs
Start Gas Adjustment: 100%
Low Battery: 6.0V OK
Starter Power @ Ignition: 070 mine is 040
Ignition Max Rpm: 4.000 OK
Ignition Min Rpm: 2.000 OK
Preheat: 2.0 Seconds mine is 6.0s
Rpm Gas Off: 13.000 mine is 45
Starter Power @ Fuel Ramp: 070 mine is 50
Rpm 100% Starter Power: 30,000 rpm mine set to 22
Rpm Off Starter: 25,000 rpm mine set to 30
Rpm to Reconnect: 22,000 rpm mine set to 28
Start Mode: Auto-Gas OK

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide

[img]c:%5CUsers%5CLeighton%5CPictures%5CIMG_0363.JPG[/img][img]c:%5CUsers%5CLeighton%5CPictures%5Cfadecimage.png[/img]

Leighton

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Old 11-11-2011, 05:26 AM
  #3277
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

don't use 2.2 on Xicoy for glow power. I beleive it will burn out the plug.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: OzJetBoy

Thanks Martin,

Ill adjust my settings as you suggest and test the engine again tomorrow

A quick question though - Im using a OS A6 Hot plug - will it handle 2.2volts without burning out?

As to downloading the data from the FADEC, I bought a USB connector from Gaspar and using his free software, I can plug my laptop into the dataport (replacing the Data Terminal) and run the engine with all the running information appearing on the screen (its pretty neat)

It also has the ability to download the last 51minutes of engine running data for analysis - Im still to work that one out

In my opinion - it was good money spent.

Leighton
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:30 AM
  #3278
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Frema
Why do you suggest turning up the start ramp to 12? that is very high especially as we dont know his back screen parameters.

Too high a pump ramp will cause hot start and blow flames, pump start ramp setting depends on pump used on my Jetjoe with the fliteworks pump I only use 002 on the wren with the hasul pump I have it set at 004.

I would leave pump setting alone until a few reliable starts are made then if needed it could be tweaked.

Leighton
Does it arrive near idle then take a long time to settle at 45k or take a long time to get to 40K +

First of all your ecu needs to learn the turbine parameters I would not play about with too many settings until we know more about what you have done so far.
I had several jetjoes , and the difficulty with the fw pump was the starting of it.
Caspar recomended the manual funcion on the old ecu's , not auto 1 etc.
But with the new v10 ecu from fadec , the ecu is very gentle on the feulramping.
so i know from my experiance going from 6 to 12 ramping will increes much ,but not with flames and everything.
But i agree with you , maybe its better to adjust two klicks each time he start it.
i am here and not in Australia , so he has to make the adjustments him self.

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Old 11-11-2011, 05:33 AM
  #3279
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Quote:
ORIGINAL: croatiablu

don't use 2.2 on Xicoy for glow power. I beleive it will burn out the plug.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: OzJetBoy

Thanks Martin,

Ill adjust my settings as you suggest and test the engine again tomorrow

A quick question though - Im using a OS A6 Hot plug - will it handle 2.2volts without burning out?

As to downloading the data from the FADEC, I bought a USB connector from Gaspar and using his free software, I can plug my laptop into the dataport (replacing the Data Terminal) and run the engine with all the running information appearing on the screen (its pretty neat)

It also has the ability to download the last 51minutes of engine running data for analysis - Im still to work that one out

In my opinion - it was good money spent.

Leighton
I use it everytime with 2,2 volts ,its never burned , and i use the rossi 8 plug .
They are the best and can handle even 2,6 volts without burning.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:38 AM
  #3280
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

OK Iguess there are differences in plugs then... perhaps ratchet up with the plug outside the motor to get the best burn. I pretty much always use a McCoy MC9 plug. Mark (former JJrep) originally told me the Xicoy ECUruns a little hotter than the JJECU.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: frema

Quote:
ORIGINAL: croatiablu

don't use 2.2 on Xicoy for glow power. I beleive it will burn out the plug.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: OzJetBoy

Thanks Martin,

Ill adjust my settings as you suggest and test the engine again tomorrow

A quick question though - Im using a OS A6 Hot plug - will it handle 2.2volts without burning out?

As to downloading the data from the FADEC, I bought a USB connector from Gaspar and using his free software, I can plug my laptop into the dataport (replacing the Data Terminal) and run the engine with all the running information appearing on the screen (its pretty neat)

It also has the ability to download the last 51minutes of engine running data for analysis - Im still to work that one out

In my opinion - it was good money spent.

Leighton
I use it everytime with 2,2 volts ,its never burned , and i use the rossi 8 plug .
They are the best and can handle even 2,6 volts without burning.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:49 AM
  #3281
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: frema


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Frema
Why do you suggest turning up the start ramp to 12? that is very high especially as we dont know his back screen parameters.

Too high a pump ramp will cause hot start and blow flames, pump start ramp setting depends on pump used on my Jetjoe with the fliteworks pump I only use 002 on the wren with the hasul pump I have it set at 004.

I would leave pump setting alone until a few reliable starts are made then if needed it could be tweaked.

Leighton
Does it arrive near idle then take a long time to settle at 45k or take a long time to get to 40K +

First of all your ecu needs to learn the turbine parameters I would not play about with too many settings until we know more about what you have done so far.
I had several jetjoes , and the difficulty with the fw pump was the starting of it.
Caspar recomended the manual funcion on the old ecu's , not auto 1 etc.
But with the new v10 ecu from fadec , the ecu is very gentle on the feulramping.
so i know from my experiance going from 6 to 12 ramping will increes much ,but not with flames and everything.
But i agree with you , maybe its better to adjust two klicks each time he start it.
i am here and not in Australia , so he has to make the adjustments him self.

Thanks, not familiar with the ver10 but that explains it if the ramping is softer.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:51 AM
  #3282
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Croatiablu

Just looking at your settings, you should reduce your gas cut off as all you are doing is wasting gas and make the start hotter if the gas is running on when not needed, the jetjoe and wren will self sustain on the kero around 25-28K so not needed after that.
Just a suggestion
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:47 AM
  #3283
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Thank you... I will try this...

Andy

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Croatiablu

Just looking at your settings, you should reduce your gas cut off as all you are doing is wasting gas and make the start hotter if the gas is running on when not needed, the jetjoe and wren will self sustain on the kero around 25-28K so not needed after that.
Just a suggestion
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:19 AM
  #3284
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

You know come to think of it, with my idle set to 44, it is absurd to have my gas off set to 45. I just never took note of it as I manually turn off the gas at 30 - 35 anyway.

I will definely change this later on.

Thanks.

Andy

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Croatiablu

Just looking at your settings, you should reduce your gas cut off as all you are doing is wasting gas and make the start hotter if the gas is running on when not needed, the jetjoe and wren will self sustain on the kero around 25-28K so not needed after that.
Just a suggestion
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:29 AM
  #3285
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

i have to tell you all that i am very pleased with the new fadec ecu from Gaspar that i use for the jetjoes
i run with two juniors on a tractor , and they start so easy ,and run so nice with the ecu.

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Old 11-11-2011, 09:02 AM
  #3286
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

I could not agree with you more.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: frema

i have to tell you all that i am very pleased with the new fadec ecu from Gaspar that i use for the jetjoes
i run with two juniors on a tractor , and they start so easy ,and run so nice with the ecu.

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Old 11-11-2011, 09:09 AM
  #3287
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

I have questions. Is there anybody using kero start? Will a JC P-80se ECU kero start work with a JJ 1800?
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:19 AM
  #3288
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

i dont know that for shore.
The difficulty is , the jc ecu ,is not easy to adjust, compaired with the Fadec ecu from Xicoy.
you have to know some codes to adjust it right.

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Old 11-11-2011, 10:58 AM
  #3289
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Pump Limit: 1020, after test run set this to +10% of max,
20 accel
30 desel
40 stabiulityuntill ecu learn your motor
rossi 8 plug is the best. thicker wire. in any case run the least power to glow plug for a reliable start
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:02 AM
  #3290
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Do you mean the jetcat ecu ?
how do you adjust the settings?
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:25 AM
  #3291
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

I found this link online to a Jetcat manual. This seems to have a lot in it for programming the ECU.

http://www.jety.cz/dokumenty/manualy...i/JCmanual.pdf

ECU stuff is toward middle of manual

I hope this helps


Quote:
ORIGINAL: frema

Do you mean the jetcat ecu ?
how do you adjust the settings?
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:51 AM
  #3292
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Yes i saw that too, thank you
But what i mean is , like a fadec ecu from Xicoy , you have more things you can adjust, for example the kerostart, but with the jc ecu most of the settings are good from the factory.
Like jetcat say , the less you can adjust the less there can go wrong.
But i like adjusting , with the fadec , the older ones , you could adjust almost everything , and i realy enjoyed that , that you had a feeling of doing it yourself , and ofcourse in the end ,with succes
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:25 PM
  #3293
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

But you are trying to use the JC ECUfor a JJ engine, correct? Iassume that if the JC ECU is not working right off the bat then you will need to get into the JCparameters.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: frema

Yes i saw that too, thank you
But what i mean is , like a fadec ecu from Xicoy , you have more things you can adjust, for example the kerostart, but with the jc ecu most of the settings are good from the factory.
Like jetcat say , the less you can adjust the less there can go wrong.
But i like adjusting , with the fadec , the older ones , you could adjust almost everything , and i realy enjoyed that , that you had a feeling of doing it yourself , and ofcourse in the end ,with succes
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:35 PM
  #3294
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

no i am not using a jc ecu on a jj turbine, but Toolmaker 7341 had a question about it .
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

I have questions. Is there anybody using kero start? Will a JC P-80se ECU kero start work with a JJ 1800?
here it is
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:46 PM
  #3296
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

oh ok my mistake then... I looked around a bit and it does not look like JCECU parameterscan be accessed very easily (as with Xicoy). There is a JCRS232 interface and software but looks to be a bit pricey. Would be less expensive to just buy the Xicoy ECU

Andy


Quote:
ORIGINAL: frema


Quote:
ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

I have questions. Is there anybody using kero start? Will a JC P-80se ECU kero start work with a JJ 1800?
here it is
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:17 PM
  #3297
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Does the JJ ECU have a kero start option. I haven't purchased a JJ turbine yet,just checking out all options.
The only turbine I have is a JC-P80se kero start.
Thanks in advanced for all your info.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:18 PM
  #3298
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Frema
Why do you suggest turning up the start ramp to 12? that is very high especially as we dont know his back screen parameters.

Too high a pump ramp will cause hot start and blow flames, pump start ramp setting depends on pump used on my Jetjoe with the fliteworks pump I only use 002 on the wren with the hasul pump I have it set at 004.

I would leave pump setting alone until a few reliable starts are made then if needed it could be tweaked.

Leighton
Does it arrive near idle then take a long time to settle at 45k or take a long time to get to 40K +

First of all your ecu needs to learn the turbine parameters I would not play about with too many settings until we know more about what you have done so far.
The specs on my FlightWorks 200C pump indicates that its good for turbines within the 10lb to 30lb range, so I suspect that it doesnt need to work that hard to power a JJ-1400
I might adjust the pump start ramp up two clicks to see what difference that may make

At present it does take a little while to reach 40K then a while longer to stabilise to 45K

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Old 11-11-2011, 01:25 PM
  #3299
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Hot plugs do tend to burn out quicker in turbines, A3 would be a better choice but that is the beauty of the plug setting you can adjust it too suit plug used.

take the plug out and re connect the plug cap, hold it against the turbine case and do a dummy start (no gas) you will see how the plug is glowing, always start with a low setting first.
Just thinking maybe the ver10 ecu has a glow test function which will make this job easier.

It is normal for rpm to drop a little when it changes from gas to kero
The plug is an O.S A6 (which they say supersedes the A3 plug)
By default the Fadec was set to 2,2v, but I adjusted that down after seeing 1,5v stamped on the side of the plug
I have taken the plug out and checked the brightness at 1.5v - it appears to be a bright orange. Ihave made sure that there are at least 2 coils exposed
I might increase the voltage by 0.1v at a time to find the limit of what the plug can handle (I got a card of 12 extra plugs coming, so burning one or two out wont matter that much to determine the limits)


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Old 11-11-2011, 01:26 PM
  #3300
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Default RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread

Mike,

Looks like someone else was working on the same thing. See below from 1/2009 post:

> >
RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread - 1/29/2009 5:47 AM
<script type="text/javascript">showPicture("1/28/2009 9:47:14 PM",0,0,0,2944063,120)
gab_arm75
<script type="text/javascript">titleAndStar(24,100,0,false,"","")


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Hi to all

anybody can tell me can i have kerostart on JJ turbine? i have JJ1400, its running normal, running time 3h.
i have jetcat with kerostart its work fine!! so can i use jetcat keroburner on jj turbine ? if yes please say how?

Arman

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RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread - 1/29/2009 5:55 AM
<script type="text/javascript">showPicture("1/28/2009 9:55:39 PM",0,0,0,2944063,120)
knobby1
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Arman,
The engine itself will probably be able to use the Jetcat kero start unit assuming it will screw into the normal glow plug hole, but the normal ECU/Fadec which comes with the JJ engines, (AU-540 and the Regal clone) does not accommodate a kero start function.

Cheers,
Smithy.

< Message edited by knobby1 1/30/2009 2:56 AM >


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Quote:
ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

Does the JJ ECU have a kero start option. I haven't purchased a JJ turbine yet,just checking out all options.
The only turbine I have is a JC-P80se kero start.
Thanks in advanced for all your info.
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