Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
#26
My Feedback: (10)
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
My GUESS is that in this case, the wings swept back tended to make the plane too stable (nose heavy), due to the rearward shift of the aerodynamic center (or neutral point or whatever the right word is). In this case, the plane could be so nose heavy as to be difficult to control especially in turns.
I assume the wingtip weights helped this by moving the CG aft....good idea. BTW I have heard of planes using sail winch servos with weights in tubes to shift the CG in flight.
I assume the wingtip weights helped this by moving the CG aft....good idea. BTW I have heard of planes using sail winch servos with weights in tubes to shift the CG in flight.
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (61)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Middlesex,
NJ
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
I agree. I do know from experience that the plane always got nose heavy with the wings back. I'm not an expert but talking to various people has confirmed that the CG shift is due to the change of the lift of the wing at least in the case of the F-14.
On mine, The difference was minimal and I did not need any shifting weights etc. but the idea of moving weights with the use of sailwinch servo sounds interesting.
Adil
On mine, The difference was minimal and I did not need any shifting weights etc. but the idea of moving weights with the use of sailwinch servo sounds interesting.
Adil
#28
My Feedback: (6)
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
I'm not a swing back expert either[&:] .
Keep in mind that the C of G is not a fix point at the fuselage. It is determinate by the wing geometry with a formula I don't remember. When the wings swing back that geometry change and so the C of G. So basically the all idea is to have a mechanist that re-balance the plane during fly.
IF I'M NOT WRONG, swinging the wings aft makes the plane nose heavy, so displacement ballast aft is needed to compensate.
Another cool stuff to upcome with this rc craft is to find an electronic way to pass the aileron functions to the elevator ( they'll become tailerns then) once the wing are swings. In a jet like the F-14 the aileron still working with the wings swings, but only have up movement.... as said cool stuff to upcome.
Later[sm=bananahead.gif]
#29
My Feedback: (6)
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Matt & Adil,
So none one is an expert now [sm=lol.gif] but at least our common sence seems to be.....at he right lever of beers?
The system my friend designed has the ballast displace by the same electric motor that swing the wings. Everything was integrated in one system.
I wonder if adding weight at the wing tips is convenience? A ballast located there or at the fuselage affects the wings in the same way (momentum force...[&:]) ?
I hope someday to have a !QUOT!swing wing patient!QUOT! on my working bench...
Miguel
So none one is an expert now [sm=lol.gif] but at least our common sence seems to be.....at he right lever of beers?
The system my friend designed has the ballast displace by the same electric motor that swing the wings. Everything was integrated in one system.
I wonder if adding weight at the wing tips is convenience? A ballast located there or at the fuselage affects the wings in the same way (momentum force...[&:]) ?
I hope someday to have a !QUOT!swing wing patient!QUOT! on my working bench...
Miguel
#32
My Feedback: (18)
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
AAAHHHHH so the shift in CG is a function of the center of lift and not of the shifting mass of the wing. That makes a lot of sense!! I certainly learned something today, thank you all for the info.
That just makes Bryce landing his F-14 in the swept position more impressive!
That just makes Bryce landing his F-14 in the swept position more impressive!
#33
Senior Member
My Feedback: (51)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Jorge
Whats the word I'm looking for perseverance ..............................
Congratulations she looks like a beauty your trailer going to handle all these new toys?
Guess ur in Jersey for the summer see u in lake Wales this fall.
Ian
Whats the word I'm looking for perseverance ..............................
Congratulations she looks like a beauty your trailer going to handle all these new toys?
Guess ur in Jersey for the summer see u in lake Wales this fall.
Ian
#34
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Thirsk, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Jorge,
I added this thread to my favourites some time ago when I was looking round for a tornado kit. Yours looks great on the deck and in flight. Now it's time to commit myself to spending and and am about to enter discussion with Ronnie at Jetmart about a custom build.
Before I go much further I wanted to know how you have progressed withy the tornado - is it still flying and looking good? Do you have any pictures/video or info that might be of help?
Regards
AlanR
I added this thread to my favourites some time ago when I was looking round for a tornado kit. Yours looks great on the deck and in flight. Now it's time to commit myself to spending and and am about to enter discussion with Ronnie at Jetmart about a custom build.
Before I go much further I wanted to know how you have progressed withy the tornado - is it still flying and looking good? Do you have any pictures/video or info that might be of help?
Regards
AlanR
#35
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Thirsk, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Hello Adil,
According to the site you are on-line? I marked this post as a favourite some time ago when I first through of trying to get a Tornado and left it a while to see if Jorge had any updates. I've e-mailed Jorge and Ronnie about custom build potential but just saw you were on line? If you are can tell us how Jorge has got on with the tornado ?
Regards
AlanR
According to the site you are on-line? I marked this post as a favourite some time ago when I first through of trying to get a Tornado and left it a while to see if Jorge had any updates. I've e-mailed Jorge and Ronnie about custom build potential but just saw you were on line? If you are can tell us how Jorge has got on with the tornado ?
Regards
AlanR
#36
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (61)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Middlesex,
NJ
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Hi Alan,
The Tornado is doing great with a lot more flights on it now. I saw the latest video of it with Jorge a couple of weeks ago and it looked great. Jorge is definitely starting to have fun with it although, he still has not swept the wings on it yet. I believe it has something to do with the paint scheme since it is very hard to see in grey skies. Last I heard, he was going to add some color to the bottom to track it easy and try the wings in the swept position.
So far from what I've seen, it makes we want to get one as well. I'm still having a lot of fun with my F-14 so I'm not sure when. I know I'll be stopping by Jetmart on the way to FJ-06 so you never know
Let me know if there is anything else, I can comment on to help you with the kit.
Thanks - Adil
The Tornado is doing great with a lot more flights on it now. I saw the latest video of it with Jorge a couple of weeks ago and it looked great. Jorge is definitely starting to have fun with it although, he still has not swept the wings on it yet. I believe it has something to do with the paint scheme since it is very hard to see in grey skies. Last I heard, he was going to add some color to the bottom to track it easy and try the wings in the swept position.
So far from what I've seen, it makes we want to get one as well. I'm still having a lot of fun with my F-14 so I'm not sure when. I know I'll be stopping by Jetmart on the way to FJ-06 so you never know
Let me know if there is anything else, I can comment on to help you with the kit.
Thanks - Adil
#38
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Thirsk, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Hi Adil,
Thanks for the response. Confirmation that Jorge is still having fun and that the tornado is 'flyable' even without wing sweep is just the news I need to hear before committing to the cost. I'd love to see it swept back, having seen pics of your brilliant F14 Jorge has to do it one day, they look mean. Do you know anywhere I can see extra pics/video of the tornado? Jorge hasn't responded yet but I'd really like to converse with him to get the low down.
Regards
AlanR
Thanks for the response. Confirmation that Jorge is still having fun and that the tornado is 'flyable' even without wing sweep is just the news I need to hear before committing to the cost. I'd love to see it swept back, having seen pics of your brilliant F14 Jorge has to do it one day, they look mean. Do you know anywhere I can see extra pics/video of the tornado? Jorge hasn't responded yet but I'd really like to converse with him to get the low down.
Regards
AlanR
#39
Senior Member
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: FREEPORT,
NY
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Hi Jorge
First thing I do when I get to a meet is finding out if you and Nasim are there and what new toys you brought this time. And I have never been disappointed. This is another plane I will be looking forward to seeimg.
I took my equipment out of my T33 for the time being and installed it in a Reaction 54. Hope to get a lot of flights this coming season. Once again congrats and hope to see you guys soon
Ed Reints
First thing I do when I get to a meet is finding out if you and Nasim are there and what new toys you brought this time. And I have never been disappointed. This is another plane I will be looking forward to seeimg.
I took my equipment out of my T33 for the time being and installed it in a Reaction 54. Hope to get a lot of flights this coming season. Once again congrats and hope to see you guys soon
Ed Reints
#40
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Gentlemen's
First i want to thank you (Adil and Jorge), for this beautiful Tread...
Yesterday was the big day for my Tornado-Project.
I had a SUCCESSFUL MAIDENFLIGHT!!!
A few facts:
- built from a Masterfly Kit scale 1:7,5
- weight: 11'500kg dry
- Turbine: Behotec J66HP whit a single duct
- Retracts: Jet 1A
All i can say is, that this baby flies absolutely imasing and the silhouette that it draws in the sky is very impressiv!!!
Next time i will test the sweep-wing-mechanisms. Enjoy the pictures! The video coming soon...
Regards from Switzerland
Julius
First i want to thank you (Adil and Jorge), for this beautiful Tread...
Yesterday was the big day for my Tornado-Project.
I had a SUCCESSFUL MAIDENFLIGHT!!!
A few facts:
- built from a Masterfly Kit scale 1:7,5
- weight: 11'500kg dry
- Turbine: Behotec J66HP whit a single duct
- Retracts: Jet 1A
All i can say is, that this baby flies absolutely imasing and the silhouette that it draws in the sky is very impressiv!!!
Next time i will test the sweep-wing-mechanisms. Enjoy the pictures! The video coming soon...
Regards from Switzerland
Julius
#41
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
so you wanna see more pictures?
Check this tread
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...t=62759&page=3
Check this tread
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...t=62759&page=3
#42
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Miami,
FL
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Hi Julius,
Many congrats on a great looking Tornado. At 11.5 kilos is about the same weight or less than my old version with two Byron fans!! Super. Update: last year I flew the Tornado with the wings swept back halfway and with the added weight on the tips of the wing (about 3/4 lb each). Did not require any trim change on the elevator!!! With 30lb thrust engine, flew it at half throttle. Downwind had to throttle back, very easy to get away from me. Changed the struts/brakes to a more robust combo: adapted the BVM Rafale twin struts with the BVM F-4 wheels and break. The Robart struts with the King Cat wheels and brakes just bent on fast landings. Had to remove the engine from the Tornado to power my King Cat for the summer, so I did not get a chance to fly with wings fully swept. Looking forward to hear about your swept wing flight.
Jorge
Many congrats on a great looking Tornado. At 11.5 kilos is about the same weight or less than my old version with two Byron fans!! Super. Update: last year I flew the Tornado with the wings swept back halfway and with the added weight on the tips of the wing (about 3/4 lb each). Did not require any trim change on the elevator!!! With 30lb thrust engine, flew it at half throttle. Downwind had to throttle back, very easy to get away from me. Changed the struts/brakes to a more robust combo: adapted the BVM Rafale twin struts with the BVM F-4 wheels and break. The Robart struts with the King Cat wheels and brakes just bent on fast landings. Had to remove the engine from the Tornado to power my King Cat for the summer, so I did not get a chance to fly with wings fully swept. Looking forward to hear about your swept wing flight.
Jorge
#43
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
#44
Member
My Feedback: (6)
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
several years ago (10 or 15) someone had a swing wing plane at one of the scale masters contest in st. louis mo. and the wing was swung by a jackscrew with a weight on the screw its self that moved aft as the wing swung rearward, i believe it was DENNIS CROOK but i'm not sure.
ben
ben
#45
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hastings, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Hi everyone,
Just found this thread and its fantastic.
Ive just aquired an old Masterfly tornado fitted out with Ic ducted fans and cant wait to get it flying.
I intend to fly intially with the fans then intend to convert to turbine as a winter project.
I noticed that you have a detachable nose which looks some what more scale than the original, is this available any where?, also any help with CofG, control throws, mixing ect would great so i can get it flying. I also wonder if you have pictures and any advice on your turbine install ect?, scale retracts, and jet pipes ect, and finally someone mentioned a scale wing with leadoing edge slats ect, is this available any where?
Kind regards
Derek Stone
Just found this thread and its fantastic.
Ive just aquired an old Masterfly tornado fitted out with Ic ducted fans and cant wait to get it flying.
I intend to fly intially with the fans then intend to convert to turbine as a winter project.
I noticed that you have a detachable nose which looks some what more scale than the original, is this available any where?, also any help with CofG, control throws, mixing ect would great so i can get it flying. I also wonder if you have pictures and any advice on your turbine install ect?, scale retracts, and jet pipes ect, and finally someone mentioned a scale wing with leadoing edge slats ect, is this available any where?
Kind regards
Derek Stone
#46
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
Hi Derek
Congratulation to your aquisition! I hope – thath you – es much es i – will have a lot of fun with this kit.
As you have realized, i didn’t build the original Masterfly nose. A german jetfriend called Erwin Mayer (www.topgunjets.de) who is also a big tornadofan has made it for me.
After 20 flights I have set the CG now definitely 2 cm behind the horizontal axis of the swing wip mechanism. When the wings are expanded, the plane is slightly heavy tailed! When the wings are tight, it is better controlable than with the original data from the manual.
I do the steering with tailerons, but the ailerons are a little bit added.
Ailerons ca. 1cm up/down . Tailerons ca. 3cm up/down with 60% Expo.
I took the 10 first flights with a Behotec J-66 Turbine (ca. 9kg thrust). In the meantime i chanced for Behotec JB 130 (ca. 14kg thrust). The turbine is fixed a little bit with a angle and the pipe leads diagonally through the backtail to the nozzle. The second nozzle is a dummy. Me and some other colleages in germany have made good experience whit this setup (F15, Eurofighter). The sound is better and the loss of thrust is less than with a tailpipe. When flying it i didn’t notice any negative effects.
The retract is a Jet 1A mechanism. The struts and breaks of the maingear are as well from Jet 1A. The nose gear consists of a Behotec strut. The whole thing has been scaled whit a hose, Lego-, Meccano- and other little parts.
For sure you can find scale wings no place! You have to make them yourself. In the latest Jet International Magazin they do a buildingtread whith a english guy, maybe he can help you.
Enjoy your plane!
Regards
Julius
Congratulation to your aquisition! I hope – thath you – es much es i – will have a lot of fun with this kit.
As you have realized, i didn’t build the original Masterfly nose. A german jetfriend called Erwin Mayer (www.topgunjets.de) who is also a big tornadofan has made it for me.
After 20 flights I have set the CG now definitely 2 cm behind the horizontal axis of the swing wip mechanism. When the wings are expanded, the plane is slightly heavy tailed! When the wings are tight, it is better controlable than with the original data from the manual.
I do the steering with tailerons, but the ailerons are a little bit added.
Ailerons ca. 1cm up/down . Tailerons ca. 3cm up/down with 60% Expo.
I took the 10 first flights with a Behotec J-66 Turbine (ca. 9kg thrust). In the meantime i chanced for Behotec JB 130 (ca. 14kg thrust). The turbine is fixed a little bit with a angle and the pipe leads diagonally through the backtail to the nozzle. The second nozzle is a dummy. Me and some other colleages in germany have made good experience whit this setup (F15, Eurofighter). The sound is better and the loss of thrust is less than with a tailpipe. When flying it i didn’t notice any negative effects.
The retract is a Jet 1A mechanism. The struts and breaks of the maingear are as well from Jet 1A. The nose gear consists of a Behotec strut. The whole thing has been scaled whit a hose, Lego-, Meccano- and other little parts.
For sure you can find scale wings no place! You have to make them yourself. In the latest Jet International Magazin they do a buildingtread whith a english guy, maybe he can help you.
Enjoy your plane!
Regards
Julius
#48
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air
I would like to see some pics of the jet flying with the wings closed. Anyone have any? Or, where these only to be closed on an aircraft carrier to save space?
#50
RE: Another Swing-Wing Aircraft Takes To Air