John Redman

My Feedback: (8)

Well I took the new P-180 out today in a BVM Rafale. All I can say is WOW! Performance was awesome and the combo worked great. The plane is owned by David Soufer and it used to have an Olympus in it. He flew it on the third flight and claimed the 180 has better performance than the Oly!!

All I know is the plane flies great at half throttle and really hauls the mail at full throttle. The fuel burn was nice as well. We finished the flight after about 9 minutes in the air only to find that the main tanks were still better than half full. That never happened with the Olympus, you flew 7 minutes and needed to get on the ground. The second flight I did a fair amount of high alpha and was in the power a lot, fuel burn was still nice a low, compared to the Oly.

Definitely a winner here.

gregg f

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They were great flights indeed!
The slow high alpha passes were amazing.........

mr_matt

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Nice going John!

How did you mount it? Does BV have straps yet? If so I need some.

How long do you think it would run on 180 ounces?

Talk to you later....are you going up on Sunday?

Matt

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

What are the specs, price etc?

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

what is the exact case size on the p180 ? (compared to the p200 / p120 ) ...

Wojtek

John Redman

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Matt, it uses the same mounting straps asa the AMT Pegasus. Exactly the same diameter. As for fuel consumption, I am guessing right now that it would fly around 9 minutes on 180 ounces, with plenty of gas for go-arounds. Yep, I will be there on Sunday.

Kenny, price is $4595.00 delivered. 45 pounds of thrust in a Pegasus sized case.

Wojtek, same case size as the Pegasus, whatever that is. BVM has a new bypass available for the P-200 which will also work for the P-180. This engine is the heat man!!

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

Wow sounds like a winner. A gap filler between the Titan and the P-200, I like it.

mr_matt

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Great. I was checking my stock, and I found more of the aluminum mounting ears than I thought I should... Are those yours?, I remember borrowing/stealing some from someone a long time ago? If so I will order a second set today.


Thanks

Matt

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

There is a Kero star option on that motor?!

I have a Titan in the mail that should be here today, can a titan be converted to kero start? Maybe I should have waited for the 180. When is it going to be available?

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I probabaly should have kept my mouth shut.

This kero start is really something that JetCat is trying to get a lot of operating time on before widely releasing it. A few motors have shipped with it, but I think you will want to talk to Bob/John to see if it is something you want to do right now. On the motors it works on, it is retrofittable.

In the end, one of the primary expectations of a JetCat customer is good starting turbine. I think many of you that have seen the different brands in action understand that......it has to stay that way.....There should be more announced on here soon about it.

As for the Titan versus the P-180. Totally different animals. You will ALWAYS want a Titan in your stock, maybe more than one. These can go anywhere a 66mm motor can go

The P-180/P-200 are different. Gotta have a pretty big plane to run them in. The P-180 seems to be pretty fuel efficient from what John said, but you still need 180 ounces of fuel to fly 9 minutes..that is a lot...needs a big plane.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

cool, sounds like an answer to AMT's at400 as with all the new turbines that are coming out of JetCat, im asuming this one also has nice and fast spool time .. I was actually VERY surprised how quick the spool on my P200 s when i first ran it on the bench ..

not to change focus on this thread, but i do have a question regarding the new BVM p200 bypas. Is this diferent that the p200 bypas from a few months ago ? When i bought my BVM Rafale, the engine install option (bypas included) was for the oplympus/p200 ... will i be ok with this bypas on the rafale ? or is there any advantage to whatever the new system is ?


thanks,

Wojtek

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Woj,

I think the main difference with the P-200 bypass is the clearance in the front of it so you can get the motor in with a starter.


Kenny if I come up on Sunday I will bring a P-180 to look at.

Matt

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

If JetCat was able to get the p120s to spool up faster (???) , then i think the titan would not be as relevant to the JC line as it is now . Fit wise, i think a slightly bigger engine can be made to fit in most planes.. I personally would opt for the sligtly more expensive engine with a lot more power and just go for the p180 on most projects .. After im done setting up my first CAI Raptor and the at400 I have, i think i will kepp a p180 in mind for the second one (thought of the p200, but thats REALLY pushing it a bit too hard )



Wojtek

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

thanks Matt .. I was hoping it was not a heat or air volume issue or somehting ... cool ...


Wojtek

KFalcon

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Hope to see you there!

sideshow

My Feedback: (11)

No looking.....just flying

I hope you make it up Matt.

Shui

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Well, put 2 flights on my KingCat today with my new P-180 (with a speed limiter set to 190mph). WOW! What a combo! Not for everyone (IMO). My best comparison is that flying it is similar to riding in a car with a supercharger and nitrous oxide, once you take it for a spin, its addicting!

The top speed ended up being 196mph, which may sound not too bad, but it felt and looked like a whole lot more.

Here's a shot of it on the KC.

John Redman

My Feedback: (8)

So I guess you liked it.

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

I got to hold and fondle a P-180 today, very nice!

Shui

My Feedback: (2)

Yeah, I think you can say that I liked it!!!

Amazing!!! Now I just need to make sure I can keep it within radio range! The 5,000' slow roll could be do-able now!!!

Richard Buescher

Hey Shulman, anyone can do a slow roll at 5000 feet.... try getting them lower than 50 feet!!! Radio range won't be an issue then. [X(]

See ya in a few months.

amitt

hi
Looking for opinions here on the Single vs Dual set up BVM rafale.

I see several members have dual setups - with p120's and a certain rafale with 2 P160's

Most I see have single setup

I really want a dual setup with p120's. But how much more would that weigh than single p200 setup? I think it has to weigh less than 55lbs fully loaded. I prefer the scale, and extra power if needed (56 lbs oooh). But likely rpm would be turned down. I dont want flame out on single engine, so dual a little security. Is performance, speed, stability better on the dual?

The single version obviously lighter, but how much? I see a p 180 or p200 is a recommended. Jetcats website however rates them both at 45 lbs? That cant be right? Shouldnt p200 be kicking out about 50lbs?

(I know woj, go with single )

I did miss chaance to buy rafale from heliboy! Have fun with it bvmflier!

John Redman

My Feedback: (8)

Hey Amitt,

The p-200 and P-180 both are rated at 45 pounds of thrust. Keep in mind the most thrust the AMA says you can have in a single is 45 pounds, hence the rating. You are allowed 50 pounds with a twin installation.

I pesonally have a twin Rafale kit that I want to build. I opted for this setup just for the safety of two engines, in case one flames out. There is too much $$$ there to not have some type of insurance policy for me. The P-180 flies the Rafale very sweet, once I flew it I became in love with the combo. My plan is (2) P-120's in it, which will be more than enough power.

The single Rafale I converted weighed in right at 35 pounds ready to fly I want to say with the P-180. We saved a few pounds out of it from the Olympus that was initially installed.

Either combo single or twin, you will love the bird.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

Amit, I know I have told you this before, but don't get too ahead of yourself .. you will just end up with a lot of $ tied on a plane that you will not be able to fly for a while ... Focus on getting ready to start with your first jet. Get a fast pattern plane type of set up and get your waiver with that .. If you feel really comfortable at that point, fly your Grippen .. or you can temporarily set that p120 up in a something like a boomerang XL to get some turbine practice flights on .. its low cost and builds fast ..

back to the Rafale ... I personally think the complexity of a twin outweighs the benefits of a single .. you are still limited to a similar amount of thrust out the rear 1 or 2 turbines ... the twin made sense when 45lbs + engines were not available or too expensive .. I know that Jack Diaz has his rafale(s) set up with w p160s totaling 70 lbs of thrust .. think of this .. My BobCat you saw fly on a P120 is around a 1:1 thrust: weight ratio and that was pinned at 200 on the speed limiter and is capable of well over 250 ... remember the verticals it pulled ?? straight up out of a slow pass .... now imagine a plane with something closer to a 3:2 thrust: weight !! not a good idea for a 2nd, or even 3rd jet ... I personally would only use a twin on something that absolutely needed it .. like a a10, f-14, Learjet, etc ...

as for engines the p180 maxes at 45lbs .. the p200 comes factory set to 45 lbs thrust ( AMA limits us to this ) however the engine has the capability of being cranked up to 51.5 or so .... ( honestly, running it at 50 lbs would be the only reason to get a p200 over a 180 ) i believe the 180 is a actually the same engine just inside a smaller case ...

trust me, work on getting in your first jet, then get your Grippen flying .. that will be long enough for you to figure out based on experience what you want your rafale to be set up like ... .

I knew I wanted the BVM Rafale back when i was in high school years ago ... i remember seeing it in the "what’s new" section of Popular Science" magazine .... its always been a favorite of mine too ....

amitt

Woj
As u can see I am obsessed with Rafale (the plane of course) and need help
I have a long way to go. But may end up buying now before other financial issues pop up.
I think I may go with single. I should know better after trying to put together the aeronaut refale which now comes as single version