Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

I seem to recall that the same folks screwed up the TSR2 as well...

nmacwarbirds

Dear Gordon Mc
The Mossie crashed at an airshow some years ago killing the crew.
The weekend before the P38 Lightning crashed at Duxford killing the pilot.
That was a really bad week for the Warbirds scene in the UK.
Thinking about that puts this thread into perspective.

Regards Phil G.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

And a lot more besides, we designed a fighter in the 50s that the 20 years later F-16 looks remarkably like! Our design and engineering was top world class, but back in the 40s 50s 60s and 70s, the Government controlled British manufacturing and destroyed it through combinations of stupidity and downright treason.

I bet few Americans know that the British Labour Government ordered Rolls Royce to send several of the new fangled jet engines to the Soviet Union because the Soviets didn't have the jet, well they copied it mercilessly and designed the Mig15 around it, which was then used to kill American and British forces in Korea. Yep, Americans were killed by planes with Soviet built Rolls Royce engines donated with the comradely greetings of the British Labour Party. That was the Labour Party that Tony Blair joined and now leads, (Tony Blair was also an active member for the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament which wanted the USA out of NATO and Europe, and for NATO to just scrap all its nuclear weapons and defences and leave us defenceless against the Soviet Union) so if Americans think he is their friend then I advise them to keep looking over their shoulders lest they find a knife in their backs.....

CJ2002

Lighten(ing) up a bit folks!

nmacwarbirds

Dear All
Here is a pic of two Mick Reeves Lightnings at Coltishall.
Ours is the red one in the foreground the black one in the background belongs to Colin Straus.
Colin is the chap who built the Globemaster which was shown on the Discovery channel.
Regards Phil G.

fly109

My Feedback: (1)

"We"? Exactly who is We? Sounds official.

Thanks but I was responding to a statement wherein facts seemed not to matter.

CJ2002

Kemble, June 2005 - the RAFs first public display with a Typhoon.

Cheers,

Dick
England

CJ2002

#2

CJ2002

Off thread but thought you'd like to see it!

CJ2002

...and this one too!

nmacwarbirds

Dear All
Here is a pic of our Comp-arf Eurosport/Eurofighter.
Model will be powered by a Merlin P160.
We are hoping to have the model fully sorted for our Battle of Britain event
which will be held on Sunday 4th of September.

The fullsize Eurofighter will be appearing at the Lowestoft airshow.
It will be operating out of RAF Coltishall for this two day event.
Hopefully we might be able to get a close look at it.

Regards Phil G.

S E Repton

Phil,

How scale is the Eurosport, I know it is marketed as 'sport scale' but would it be possible to model an accurate scale Typhoon or is it way off?

I was at Waddington on Monday watching the planes leave on Monday in the area the RAF had set up for anoraks like me!

My father in law works on the Nimrods at Waddington and I told him that I was there in the afternoone. His response was " If you had rung me I could have got you to sit in the Typhoon as thats where I was for most of the afternoon"!

He didn't do anything but watch the free airshow with the pilots Hot Dogging as they left and sat in the Typhoon! - Gutted!



Bubba

S E Repton

I forgot to mention, He did get me a Typhoon pen though

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Ugh - that's a huge loss ....

nmacwarbirds

Dear Bigbubba
I don't think the comp Euro is way off scale, in all intents and purposes it is to me
anyway a Eurofighter.
Paul Gray brought his Grumania Eurofighter to Coltishall a few weeks ago it is powered
by a wren 44. This one looks quite scalish also mind you it had a scale speed of about Mach 7

A shame you missed the chance of sitting in the cockpit of the real Euro.

Regards Phil G.

bela

The Brits saying that the Americans have a SUPERIORITY complex??????? now that is rich!
Yes its true we place great stock in our fighters.........sort of like you guys hype your automobiles..... and everything else of British origin.
But as you try to educate your American "friends" a little less smugness will go a long way.
This Thread is about jets, and to that end, Physics is Physics.
The lightning, like our f-104 was designed on the extreme, was a very fast machine, but in return was not as maneuverable, and range suffered horribly.
And yes Harry C, we know that the Brits unwittingly invited Mikoyan and Gurevich into thier engine plants giving them direct access to thier at that time advance technology. While they were there, they stepped in some engine shavings, providing the samples for metalurgy tests later. and giving birth to the Mig-15.....and your point was....?

Oh and Mcwarbirds, thanx for the July 4th best wishes! We so impressively earned it....dont you think?

S E Repton

I am a little confused, how do we hype our automobiles? do you mean that unlike cars like the corvette and mustang, when we turn the wheel of a British sportscar it goes in the direction you ask of it?

If so then yes we do!

Bubba

B58

My Feedback: (43)

Here's my 2 cents worth. Yes, we Americans are a bit full of ourselves, but well we should be. We are the only "superpower" left on the earth, and as such are footing a big chuck of the cost to keep our friends safe. I was a B-58 guy way back when. Airplane was first flown in 1955 I think. I got into the program in 1966. Mach II plus, and topped out at above 80000 feet. Very expensive, hard to maintain, very touchy to fly, but still could go like heck! B-52 was designed and flown a bit earlier, but is projected to remain in service until it is over 100 years old! No one will ever top that, unless it is the C-47 or C-130. Both of those built right here in the good old USA! Oh well, off my soapbox. The new Typhoon looks like a heck of a plane. Hope they build more than just a few. We could use some.

bela

There you go! another one! as you attack our corvette and mustang, it was uncalled for. go back and re-read. the point was, Brits in this thread characterize us as thinking we have the best of everything, you have the very same issues. you've just proven my point.

nmacwarbirds

Dear B58
Was the B58 known as the hustler and was it a large delta winged aircraft
or am I mistaken.
Regards Phil G.

FLYF18

Don't sell the Brits short on their aircraft. The Typhoon is an incredible maneuvering machine. The Navy/Marines are flying aircraft with British bloodlines. Is the Typhoon going to get back into the Singapore competition?

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Wow.. you guys can sure get your nose bent in a hurry..

My comments were simply that I doubted the Typhoon could accelerate as quickly as claimed since the numbers published on the official Typhoon website are substantially lower.

But since you opened this can of worms.. let's look at facts shall we?

Lightning vs the F-15.. What numbers can it outperform the Eagle?

Last time I checked.. the Eagle's brake release to 9,000m was 48.86 seconds. Turn rate? Not a chance. At 450 kts, the F-15 can execute a sustained 7.5g 360 degree turn, in UNDER 1/2 mile diameter. Speed differential? The F-15's MCA (minimum controllable airspeed) is 110 kts, with a maximum speed of over 1650mph. The Lightning's TOUCHDOWN speed is almost 50mph faster than the MCA of the Eagle. Don't even bother discussing range, ground attack capability, or simultaneous engagement of multiple targets. I'm well aware of how capable the Lightning was.. and for its day, it was VERY capable, but the comparison is simply laughable.

The F-15 was the 1st fighter aircraft ever made which could take off, pull directly to a vertical climb, and ACCELERATE through Mach 1. It's Pratt & Whittney F1OO-PW-100 engines put out 25,000 lbs of thrust in max afterburner. With a dry weight of 31,900 pounds, this means you can put FULL internal fuel (13,123 lbs) into the airplane and STILL have a better than 1.1:1 thrust to weight ratio.

The BEST power to weight the Lightning ever had was probably the F.3 whos RR Avon 301R's put out just under 16,400lb of thrust each. Now when you consider it had an EMPTY weight of about 27,000 pounds, you have less than 4300 lbs of payload to stay above 1:1.

As for looks.. I like the Lightning over both the F-22 and the F-15. It was a VERY original idea, and I'm sure it was exceptional at its interceptor mission. One thing for sure, you Brits either design absolutely gorgeous airplanes like the Hunter, or simply the ugliest creations to ever take flight, such as the Fairey Gannet.

barneybaru

My Feedback: (4)

Dear Old Chap,
You clearly aren't interested in spelling otherwise you would have taken time to look it up in a dictionary. I am sure physics isn't of interest to you either. Sounds like you are still sour grapes from way back when we showed King George III that his empire wasn't as big as he planned. You have heard of the Declaration of Independence haven't you. We enjoy our 4th more than you will ever know.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

That you should look a lot more closely at the background of an actor who pretends to be your friend, for he has a long history of anti-American, pro-Soviet activities and speeches. If such a person agrees with what you do it is because he thinks it will harm you, not help you.......

H

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

I don't think anyone said the Lightning was a better fighter. The Lightning and F15 were from different eras, different generations of technology. An F15 vs Lightning is no more valid than a Lightning vs Spitfire. In any fighting the F15 would win against a Lightning. Remember that the original RAF requirement was issued in 1947. One reason the Lightning had such a performance and could supercruise is that the core of the design was laid down before reheat had been invented, by the time it was in production reheat was available which gave it a huge boost on top of an already good performance. The Lightning was never designed to mix it in a turning dogfight, its concept was simply to carry missiles to the launch point as fast and high as possible and fire them and come home. A typically stupid government minister of defence called Duncan Sandys had pronounced that the era of manned aircraft was over because missiles could replace them, the governments scrapped every one of our projects except the Lightning because so much money had already been spent on it but they made sure that its performance was crippled in so many ways, in order to "prove" they were right. From WW2 until Margaret Thatcher, British Governments controlled our industry with only little less control than the Soviet Union controlled its, and with much the same disastrous consequences. Our engineers did not have the free hand to develop aircraft (or indeed any goods) as the Americans did, and of course we were financially crippled by WW2 for a long time after so the cash for investing in development was very tight.

H