Skymaster F-4E phantom
03-29-2016, 07:57 AM
#801
03-30-2016, 10:42 AM
#806
Dantley isn't the most knowledgeable in this area.
There is an issue with the SM pipe. SM piped phantoms climb when on throttle. This is a well documented problem. I will post some threads pointing this out.
Here is one:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...ter-f-4-a.html
Dantley has never flown an SM piped phantom. Both of his f-4's had Tam's pipe which doesn't have a bend at the end like the SM pipe. Fact.
And he is too scared to do short field operations with his phantom. Fact.
With the SM pipe, the phantom will climb on throttle. Fact.
With the CG at 290 and 340 mm the phantom doesn't like full flaps. Fact.
In between those CG's (320mm is the most aft with flaps that I've read, check that, I just found 325) full flaps are probably fine. Many people are comfortably flying with CG's in between those numbers and using full landing flaps just fine.
Full flaps meaning Anton's (SM) recommended landing setting.
I measured my Cg with gear down, tanks empty, UAT full.
Attached see Tam's pipe (on Dantley's Phantom) that points down. Just like the SM one does WHEN IT IS FLIPPED. And then compare it to SM's pipe that sticks straight out when NOT flipped.
That's why he has never seen the climb on throttle phenomenon.
If I were building a new SM phantom, I would CG at 340 (for better short field, short approach situations), invert my SM pipe and not use flaps. Simple.
For some reason, Dantley doesn't think it's ok to land a jet with out flaps? Like it is something that is NOT possible?
There is an issue with the SM pipe. SM piped phantoms climb when on throttle. This is a well documented problem. I will post some threads pointing this out.
Here is one:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...ter-f-4-a.html
Dantley has never flown an SM piped phantom. Both of his f-4's had Tam's pipe which doesn't have a bend at the end like the SM pipe. Fact.
And he is too scared to do short field operations with his phantom. Fact.
With the SM pipe, the phantom will climb on throttle. Fact.
With the CG at 290 and 340 mm the phantom doesn't like full flaps. Fact.
In between those CG's (320mm is the most aft with flaps that I've read, check that, I just found 325) full flaps are probably fine. Many people are comfortably flying with CG's in between those numbers and using full landing flaps just fine.
Full flaps meaning Anton's (SM) recommended landing setting.
I measured my Cg with gear down, tanks empty, UAT full.
Attached see Tam's pipe (on Dantley's Phantom) that points down. Just like the SM one does WHEN IT IS FLIPPED. And then compare it to SM's pipe that sticks straight out when NOT flipped.
That's why he has never seen the climb on throttle phenomenon.
If I were building a new SM phantom, I would CG at 340 (for better short field, short approach situations), invert my SM pipe and not use flaps. Simple.
For some reason, Dantley doesn't think it's ok to land a jet with out flaps? Like it is something that is NOT possible?
Last edited by ravill; 03-30-2016 at 11:03 AM.
03-30-2016, 10:52 AM
#807
Raf,
Sucks to lose a good airframe, and a great looking F-4, it was.
When you say CG is at 340mm, is that in landing configuration, like gear down, half or less fuel in the bag...? Also, landing flaps....what were you using for landing flap setting, the recommended 65deg? I wonder if takeoff flaps or say, no more than 30-40 deg of deflection might be the sweet spot when you're at the ragged edge of 340mm, in the landing pattern.
My first F-4E, a Skymaster, is on the next container ship to CONUS from the factory and I hope to be flying it by early summer. Just trying to absorb what's working for you and what's pushing it. Though I'm willing to move the CG past the 300mm mark, I think I'll be creeping up on the landing flap setting (25deg TO, 65deg, Land). I also want to be able to land at smaller airfields and do it consistently (at ~6000msl).
You also mentioned installing a P200. That could have added another pound or more to your overall weight, no?
Thanks for giving us a thorough flight test and eval on the SM Rhino. Lots of good info, and lessons to heed and learn.
Tom
Sucks to lose a good airframe, and a great looking F-4, it was.
When you say CG is at 340mm, is that in landing configuration, like gear down, half or less fuel in the bag...? Also, landing flaps....what were you using for landing flap setting, the recommended 65deg? I wonder if takeoff flaps or say, no more than 30-40 deg of deflection might be the sweet spot when you're at the ragged edge of 340mm, in the landing pattern.
My first F-4E, a Skymaster, is on the next container ship to CONUS from the factory and I hope to be flying it by early summer. Just trying to absorb what's working for you and what's pushing it. Though I'm willing to move the CG past the 300mm mark, I think I'll be creeping up on the landing flap setting (25deg TO, 65deg, Land). I also want to be able to land at smaller airfields and do it consistently (at ~6000msl).
You also mentioned installing a P200. That could have added another pound or more to your overall weight, no?
Thanks for giving us a thorough flight test and eval on the SM Rhino. Lots of good info, and lessons to heed and learn.
Tom
And those two flights were friggin awesome. Just gobs of power.
I had to take off with about 75% throttle on the second flight. It was too much power.
How many times has "too much" power been associated with a phantom?!!
03-31-2016, 02:13 PM
#808
I just purchased a previously owned white kit F-4D, to be done in my old squadron colors. It does not have a cockpit kit/pilots or external stores. I am looking for cockpit kit/pilots, inner and outer pylons and wing tanks. Anyone wanting to part with some let me know. Thanks.
04-02-2016, 09:49 AM
#819
10-19-2016, 03:44 PM
#822
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I had great success this year with my replacement Skymaster F-4E. It has its CofG set at 320 and I find that perfect. It has a Jet Central Mammoth and uses the stock Skymaster pipe. After a couple of flights, the onboard Powerbox GPSII recorded a ground speed of 221 mph. It was rock solid and the presence was just incredible. For next season, I'm adding landing lights, pylons, tanks, and a drogue chute. I'm very happy with the flying characteristics and the thrill of the flights! Here's some photos from Larry Ingram and Ken Park:
Jeff
Jeff
10-19-2016, 03:57 PM
#823
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Hey Jeff , your F4 looks great! Let me give you a bit of a tip. Glue and screw the pylons to the bottom of the wing, I lost one of my tanks because the screws pulled through the pylon. Its not a happy plane when you loose one of the drop tanks in flight. I had it up at the Maine Jet Rally and lucky for me the tank landed in the grass with no damage. I was running my CG at 325 for a few years now and its been perfect. I just sold my Edwards F4 and I am doing a new one in the QF4 drone scheme, that should keep my busy until skymaster comes out with the big F4.
Regards,
Don
Regards,
Don
10-19-2016, 04:41 PM
#824
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Hey Jeff , your F4 looks great! Let me give you a bit of a tip. Glue and screw the pylons to the bottom of the wing, I lost one of my tanks because the screws pulled through the pylon. Its not a happy plane when you loose one of the drop tanks in flight. I had it up at the Maine Jet Rally and lucky for me the tank landed in the grass with no damage. I was running my CG at 325 for a few years now and its been perfect. I just sold my Edwards F4 and I am doing a new one in the QF4 drone scheme, that should keep my busy until skymaster comes out with the big F4.
Regards,
Don
Regards,
Don
Cheers,
Jeff
10-20-2016, 03:56 AM
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Sorry guys for the interruption and getting off track.
Very, Very nice F-4.
I used to own one myself.
Love the look.
Maybe I will get one again sometime in the future.
Hi Ash26:
I have all the doors, Canopy for the old version L-39, My extra long range 2.6 L tank designed to fit on top of the JL fuel tanks
and my 1.4 L smoke custom fuel tank,
wing tip tanks, wing pito tubes, speed brakes, wing flap top fairings, nose tire and a used H-stab.
Let me know
Very, Very nice F-4.
I used to own one myself.
Love the look.
Maybe I will get one again sometime in the future.
Hi Ash26:
I have all the doors, Canopy for the old version L-39, My extra long range 2.6 L tank designed to fit on top of the JL fuel tanks
and my 1.4 L smoke custom fuel tank,
wing tip tanks, wing pito tubes, speed brakes, wing flap top fairings, nose tire and a used H-stab.
Let me know
Last edited by artchristic1; 10-20-2016 at 05:16 AM.
