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JHH Mirage

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Old 10-27-2002, 06:37 AM
  #1
CARS II
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I'm about to buy a JHH Mirage ready to fly, it's in very good conditions, K&B 7.5, turbax, Spring air retracts, JR servos, the airplane was flown before and it was build right from the beginning. You got to love this airplane.
Can somebody tell me what to spect, TO. distance, cruising speed, final app. to landing speed and attitude, landing distance, should I get wheels with brakes.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Thank you .

CARS II
( new jet pilot )
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Old 10-27-2002, 07:55 AM
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Cars, no disrespect, but I just can't resist:

Question: Distance?
Answer: How goods your vision?

Question: Cruising speed?
Answer: About that fast.

Question: Final approach to landing speed and attitude?
Answer: About that fast and keep the faith.

Question: Landing distance?
Answer: How far are you willing to walk?

Question: Should I get wheels and brakes.
Answer: How long is your runway?

Sorry Cars, just couldn't resist, but seriously, is this gonna be your first model jet? If it is, what is your experience level etc.. Each jet handles a little differently, even the same design from the same manufacturer. You pretty much just have to feel them out in the air, like stall speeds etc.. You can expect to land them very fast (compared to prop models), but as far as in "the air" speeds, anything would be a guess without a radar gun. Most jets fly in the 100-200 mph range. That has a lot to do with motor/fan setup, airframe, weight, balance etc.. I am not sure what you mean by distance. Your radio is good farther than you can see the model, your time in the air would depand on the size of your tanks vs. how much fuel your motor consumes a minute. As far as landing distance goes, that would depend on how fast you landed, how well your wheels roll, what type of surface your landing on (grass or concrete)etc.. Whether or not you need brakes would depend on the length of your runway, and how good you land. If you have a habit of landing hot at mid-runway, brakes might be good. But, if you can put the model down in the first quarter of the runway, you should be OK (unless your runway is real short). Sorry for the humorous comments initially, but it was kinda fun. Good luck in your jet endeavor. Mike
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Old 10-27-2002, 08:20 AM
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Default JHH Mirage

Give Larry a call JHH, he wont BS you on what to expect, and is a very nice guy to talk with too. Depends alot on your experience, but for a first jet I dont think I would try to point someone to a Mirage. With jets, you have to get used to looking at an ambigous shape from very fay away, and the Mirage planform is about as ambigous as they get. In time you will learn to use your "where it should be" feeling and TRUST it, regardless of the optical you get looking at the model in the air.

Wish you luck.
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Old 10-27-2002, 08:59 AM
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Mike thank you for the reply.

first jet ? Yes and no. I mounted an OS 77 on a heavily modified Northstar, did OK 'till it decided to ground it self (crash ) but I did learned a lot from it.
Level of exp.
15 wonderful years of building, fixing, modifying, and off course crashing airplanes, have flown from your basic trainer, pattern, IMAC, sport, (Golber Sukoi, Lanier Shrike .15 with a .25 and tunned pipe, fast very fast ) currently and almost complete a GP. F-4 Phantom probably my last prop. plane.
Distance? ( dumb question ) I guest that I sounded like somebody that just got into the hobbie by asking that question, please ignore it.
Landing? I usually go for the numbers maintaining rate of descent with throttle.
Type of runway used ? paved, long. Woodland/Davis.


Mike, again thank you for your time and comments, humor is always welcome.

May you have blue skys on your next mission.

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Old 10-27-2002, 09:06 AM
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Rpmodeltech

Thank you. I think I will give him a call.


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Old 10-27-2002, 10:07 AM
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Cars,

You sound like a ready jet pilot.

The term "First jet" will always remind me of the person who has flown a trainer for 6 months, and not crashed for 3 or 4 and thinks its time to move on to the "dream".

Remember jets are: gliders/rockets/bricks

Gliders is the energy management part, like slope flying, you run out of steam somewhere, you're done.

Rockets is the ambiguity part, really far away, really quickly.

Bricks... Some can be, but all want to be, especially if you dont have enough energy in landing etc. This really depends on the plane alot, along with the glider part.

Good jet flying!

Rick
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Old 10-27-2002, 11:29 AM
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Cars,

My first jet was a JHH mirage, but was fitted with a Dynamax/ OS91, sport wing.
Was a bit on the heavy side , flew ok but very fast on landings.
I built a second one still the same configuration, but with added canards and the weight was 10 1/2 lbs.
This one was a real ***** cat and you could land it at a walking pace....good vertical performance too! much like an avonds Rafale
I've no experience with 7.5 DF...but if your plane is more than 8lbs forget it!
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Old 10-27-2002, 01:39 PM
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RIDER-60

Don't know the exact weight of this aircraft. I lifted it once and it felted like 9 1/2 #, it was build with the foam wing 42". Any way I have an OS 77 with a dinamax standing by.

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Old 10-28-2002, 01:43 PM
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CARS II,

This plane will fly very well once you build up speed. Adil Nasim (another poster here) has flown this same plane for years. You might want to send him an email. As with all deltas you must manage your speed well in turns.

Mark M.
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Old 10-28-2002, 04:10 PM
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I built mine as the Kfir C2 with canards, Dynamax/OS .91 with the cheater hole until the last 60 or so flights. Had about 300 flights on it. Was radared out of a dive at 145 mph. Weighed 13 pounds (after several repairs) with fuel at takeoff. Also was the 42" foam sport wing.

Takeoff distance was about 300 ft. Climb out was slow and it took a minute or so to hit cruise speed. Landings were easy as long as you didn't get too slow until the flare. Just manage the power. I have had a number of dead stick landings where I ended up with a 20+ degree nose up attitude at touchdown streching the glide. The delta wing won't quit on you but the drag can get way up there. Draging the ventral on landing was common, even with power on. If you ham fist the sticks, you can really "dig in" in the turns and bleed speed down to nothing. Mine had a lot of glide as long as I didn't raise the nose too much until the flare.

I'd guess the turbax/7.5 combo will likely be slower and have less performance IMHO. Don't horse it into the air, a slow delta is no fun on takeoff. Make sure you have a positive fuselage incidence when on the gear.
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Old 10-28-2002, 04:29 PM
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Mine was built without cheater hole, and it is probably better because there is less drag and no ground suction effect.
The Dynamax will handle it nicely, not sure about the Ramtec which has less blades..
With no cheater hole you should not put the abs inlet spikes as it reduces the inlet area .
Same advice as Thud for the positive incidence on the ground otherwise it won't rotate unless you cut power (first flight mistake......!)
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Old 10-28-2002, 08:11 PM
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Thank you everyone for all the good advise, I certainly don fill lost any more, keep it coming.



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Old 10-28-2002, 08:13 PM
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I will try to post pictures as soon as get the Mirage.


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Old 10-28-2002, 08:17 PM
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Cars,
yes you definitely have to send us pics!! and let us know how it flies!!!
I've send a pic of my kfir but made a mistake go to the "aviation design mirage" thread
Florent
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Old 10-28-2002, 08:49 PM
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I was told that by the builder that with the K&B and Turbax fan combo it's slow on to. and that it will take a lot of run way but once in the air and on the step it will be fast enough for me at lest for now, that's just what everyone has been telling me.



Carlos.
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Old 10-30-2002, 06:46 PM
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Cars II,

Back in the very early '80's, we flew the Mirage with K&B 6.5 engines--and they flew!! Engine technology has come a long way over the 20+ years and the Mirage will fly quite well on the rear intake rear exhaust 7.5. What you should know is that there have been several different 7.5 engines, so the best performance will be with the 9101 (RIRE) version and Mac's 1250 8.5cc pipe.

A couple questions for you:

1) Which version of the 7.5 do you have? Is the carburetor cast with fins or is it a machined block?
2) What pipe are you using and what is the length from glow plug to apex (where the pressure fitting goes)?
3) How much does the Mirage weigh?

We'd like to help you be successful with the airplane and we're here to help you if you choose to use us as a resource.

Best regards,
Larry Wolfe
larry@jethangar.com
562-467-0260
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Old 10-30-2002, 09:45 PM
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Hi Larry.

Thank you for posting information on the Mirage question. I don't have the answers to your questions just yet because I'm getting the airplane 'till after the 9th of Nov., the truth is that you have seen this mirage before and helped the owner trim it, about two years ago maybe more. According to the ex-owner John it flew very good, I don't know how many times he flew it after that but I assume not many times because the airplane looks in very good shape and has been taking care of by its second owner, he flew it twice only ( to fast for him ), I will be its third owner.

I will try to ask for your help once I get the airplane.


Thank you.

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Old 10-31-2002, 03:23 PM
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CARS II,

Is that the Mirage owned by Trader John (Riccoboni) in Fresno?

Larry
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:34 AM
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Larry
I'm not sure, but the builder John lives here in Sacramento and he fly out of Woodland/Davis Aeromodelers. You may remember this, you complemented him on the how he finish the intakes lips which I also noticed right away. I will get his full name and will post picture as soon as I get this mean machine.


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Old 11-01-2002, 04:39 AM
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Hey I bought my first DF from Ricco, nice guy.

CARS, will see you out at Woodland, going to be joining soon. We talked at the Jet show a couple weeks ago (black Y/A F-4). Looking forward to seeing your mirage.

-Brian
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:58 AM
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Hey Brian, What's up?

I remember you and the F-4. Glad you are joining our club. Did you fix the problem on the F-4?, man you save that airplane from total annihilation that day, I like to see that F-4 flying again.

I'm sure now that this mirage was not build buy Ricco from Fresno.



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Old 11-01-2002, 05:05 AM
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Yeah, that was some wicked interference that day... was lucky to be able to get it back to the runway in one piece. Looks like it was my reciever antenna, won't be using that one again!
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Old 11-01-2002, 05:11 AM
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Copy.


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Old 11-01-2002, 04:00 PM
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That must be the airplane built by John Hoppe. He did an excellent job with it and it flew well with the 7.5 system.

Larry
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Old 11-10-2002, 07:36 AM
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Finally, I'm picking up the Mirage tomorrow and some questions will be answered finally.
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