Jet Legend?
10-04-2005, 05:04 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Frankfort, KY
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jet Legend?
Has anyone been flying any of the Jet Legend kits? The prices look very reasonable and they look similar to some of the Skymaster offerings. http://www.jetlegend.com/
Looking for some information such as Quality, Customer Service, how well they fly etc.
Brandon
Looking for some information such as Quality, Customer Service, how well they fly etc.
Brandon
10-04-2005, 06:31 PM
#3
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Jet Legend?
... and according to others, they are not unauthorised copies at all - they are inventory that Sparks made for Skymaster (when Sparks was still manufacturoing for Skymaster), which Skymaster has failed to pay for, and which Sparks is therefore entitled to sell off to recover the costs associated with their supposedly long overdue bills.
Either way, I personally wouldn't expect too much in the way of support while Jet Legend sells the kits direct ; getting support from them, plus dealing with the hassle of wire transfers etc (last I heard, they were incapable of handling credit cards), would personally put me off these kits unless they were sold at a much lower price, or were resold through a company with known good levels of domestic support.
If it costs me only marginally more to buy the kit from Skymaster, and get support, rather than buy from Jet Legend and possibly get no worthwhile support - then I'd buy from Skymaster. (Just as the higher cost of a BVM kit is worth it to me for the support and the known level of quality etc. - same applies to getting support from Skymaster vs maybe not getting support from Jet Legend.) On the other hand, if the goods were disposed of in a "fire sale" method - i.e MUCH reduced price to get rid of the goods, with the understanding that the reduced price comes with reduced service, then that may be a worthwhile cost / risk balance to temp people away from buying from Skymaster instead.
YMMV,
Gordon
Either way, I personally wouldn't expect too much in the way of support while Jet Legend sells the kits direct ; getting support from them, plus dealing with the hassle of wire transfers etc (last I heard, they were incapable of handling credit cards), would personally put me off these kits unless they were sold at a much lower price, or were resold through a company with known good levels of domestic support.
If it costs me only marginally more to buy the kit from Skymaster, and get support, rather than buy from Jet Legend and possibly get no worthwhile support - then I'd buy from Skymaster. (Just as the higher cost of a BVM kit is worth it to me for the support and the known level of quality etc. - same applies to getting support from Skymaster vs maybe not getting support from Jet Legend.) On the other hand, if the goods were disposed of in a "fire sale" method - i.e MUCH reduced price to get rid of the goods, with the understanding that the reduced price comes with reduced service, then that may be a worthwhile cost / risk balance to temp people away from buying from Skymaster instead.
YMMV,
Gordon
10-04-2005, 08:18 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Frankfort, KY
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Thanks Guys,
I kind of figured this was the response I would get. I must have missed the other threads on this subject, but after doing a search looks as if it was a hot topic for a while. I have to agree I would pay a little more for the Skymaster kits to ensure I have someone to go to for answers if needed.
Brandon
I kind of figured this was the response I would get. I must have missed the other threads on this subject, but after doing a search looks as if it was a hot topic for a while. I have to agree I would pay a little more for the Skymaster kits to ensure I have someone to go to for answers if needed.
Brandon
10-04-2005, 08:38 PM
#5
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Jet Legend?
Gordon(as he often does) raises some good points. If they slashed their prices quite a bit, you would see a lot of the "moral convictions" fall by the wayside and people would buy them all up. As it is, whatever the case is between these two companies, why give up the support from Skymaster to save a hundred or two bucks?
10-05-2005, 02:35 AM
#6
My Feedback: (17)
RE: Jet Legend?
Brandon,
Here is my experience:
I've ordered an F-15 kit from Jet Legend. I believe that if they have the goods on hand they can sell them, you will never know the true story behind that....
The deal was smooth , my e-mails have always been answered, I had to make a bank transfer which took about ten days then the kit was shipped and took only 3 days to reach me thru DHL....not bad at all!
Everything was very carefully packed and survived the journey from china with no damage.
Quality is excellent and I have not found the bad quality that has been advertised. I believe that early skymaster kits were made by Spark so quality is not an issue.
I also have a Skymaster F-18 and the Jet Legend F-15 is just as good.
I choosed not to take the ARF version but the kit version which is a good alternative in term of money saving.
Evrerything was included down to the bolts and nuts, when I mean everything the price also include the tailpipe and molded tanks.......
I paid 530$+150shipping+ 50 euro import taxes.
After ten days of work the F15 looks nearly like if I had it ARF, it is really easy to build. I hope to have it airborn in another 10 days.
I don't think that Skymaster is threatened by Jet Legend, SM has gone one step further since these kits, and JL has some interesting projects coming that looks own design....I will continue to buy from both of them!
Florent
Here is my experience:
I've ordered an F-15 kit from Jet Legend. I believe that if they have the goods on hand they can sell them, you will never know the true story behind that....
The deal was smooth , my e-mails have always been answered, I had to make a bank transfer which took about ten days then the kit was shipped and took only 3 days to reach me thru DHL....not bad at all!
Everything was very carefully packed and survived the journey from china with no damage.
Quality is excellent and I have not found the bad quality that has been advertised. I believe that early skymaster kits were made by Spark so quality is not an issue.
I also have a Skymaster F-18 and the Jet Legend F-15 is just as good.
I choosed not to take the ARF version but the kit version which is a good alternative in term of money saving.
Evrerything was included down to the bolts and nuts, when I mean everything the price also include the tailpipe and molded tanks.......
I paid 530$+150shipping+ 50 euro import taxes.
After ten days of work the F15 looks nearly like if I had it ARF, it is really easy to build. I hope to have it airborn in another 10 days.
I don't think that Skymaster is threatened by Jet Legend, SM has gone one step further since these kits, and JL has some interesting projects coming that looks own design....I will continue to buy from both of them!
Florent
10-05-2005, 07:37 AM
#8
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: hull, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Hi Rider-60,
Very interesting post - I will be ordering an F15 KIT from JetLegend so it is good to know that you have had no problems.
I too have had very good reponses from emails and there is obviously a fast delivery time considering how quickly you got yours.
If I have no problems with this order then I'm going to give their F18 a shot too!
What retracts and oleos do you intend to use in your F15?
What quality is the exhaust pipe?
Thanks,
Jeff
Very interesting post - I will be ordering an F15 KIT from JetLegend so it is good to know that you have had no problems.
I too have had very good reponses from emails and there is obviously a fast delivery time considering how quickly you got yours.
If I have no problems with this order then I'm going to give their F18 a shot too!
What retracts and oleos do you intend to use in your F15?
What quality is the exhaust pipe?
Thanks,
Jeff
10-05-2005, 07:39 AM
#9
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Jet Legend?
ORIGINAL: Rider-60
Brandon,
Here is my experience:
I've ordered an F-15 kit from Jet Legend. I believe that if they have the goods on hand they can sell them, you will never know the true story behind that....
The deal was smooth , my e-mails have always been answered, I had to make a bank transfer which took about ten days then the kit was shipped and took only 3 days to reach me thru DHL....not bad at all!
Everything was very carefully packed and survived the journey from china with no damage.
Quality is excellent and I have not found the bad quality that has been advertised. I believe that early skymaster kits were made by Spark so quality is not an issue.
I also have a Skymaster F-18 and the Jet Legend F-15 is just as good.
I choosed not to take the ARF version but the kit version which is a good alternative in term of money saving.
Evrerything was included down to the bolts and nuts, when I mean everything the price also include the tailpipe and molded tanks.......
I paid 530$+150shipping+ 50 euro import taxes.
After ten days of work the F15 looks nearly like if I had it ARF, it is really easy to build. I hope to have it airborn in another 10 days.
I don't think that Skymaster is threatened by Jet Legend, SM has gone one step further since these kits, and JL has some interesting projects coming that looks own design....I will continue to buy from both of them!
Florent
Brandon,
Here is my experience:
I've ordered an F-15 kit from Jet Legend. I believe that if they have the goods on hand they can sell them, you will never know the true story behind that....
The deal was smooth , my e-mails have always been answered, I had to make a bank transfer which took about ten days then the kit was shipped and took only 3 days to reach me thru DHL....not bad at all!
Everything was very carefully packed and survived the journey from china with no damage.
Quality is excellent and I have not found the bad quality that has been advertised. I believe that early skymaster kits were made by Spark so quality is not an issue.
I also have a Skymaster F-18 and the Jet Legend F-15 is just as good.
I choosed not to take the ARF version but the kit version which is a good alternative in term of money saving.
Evrerything was included down to the bolts and nuts, when I mean everything the price also include the tailpipe and molded tanks.......
I paid 530$+150shipping+ 50 euro import taxes.
After ten days of work the F15 looks nearly like if I had it ARF, it is really easy to build. I hope to have it airborn in another 10 days.
I don't think that Skymaster is threatened by Jet Legend, SM has gone one step further since these kits, and JL has some interesting projects coming that looks own design....I will continue to buy from both of them!
Florent
10-05-2005, 08:00 AM
#10
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: hull, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Hi EASYTIGER,
Well one thing that springs to mind about not staying loyal to a particular company - Territory Protection - the authorised ability to prevent a potential customer from buying these products elsewhere whilst applying a pricing policy that may be higher than anywhere else globally.
If I can get what I want from another company then I am, as sure as hell, going to use them. Let everyone else sort out the moral and ethical issues - I'm just in it for fun!
Well one thing that springs to mind about not staying loyal to a particular company - Territory Protection - the authorised ability to prevent a potential customer from buying these products elsewhere whilst applying a pricing policy that may be higher than anywhere else globally.
If I can get what I want from another company then I am, as sure as hell, going to use them. Let everyone else sort out the moral and ethical issues - I'm just in it for fun!
10-05-2005, 08:09 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Honolulu,
HI
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
This is my post for the Jetlegend/ Spark issue in the other thread.
You might reference :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32..._Gripen/tm.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ms. Young/ Linux,
Please indicate your relationship with Spark and Jetlegend, and also why Jetlegent doesn’t show their address. Is there some reason you are not providing it? You are not a modeler, and this is the your first post. Are you trying to post a commercial post?
Skymaster designed those planes you are selling, and Spark is selling the designs without authorization. In the past we had some planes OEMed by Spark, and many of those planes you have may be the ones that couldn’t pass our quality control. We are currently in a legal battle with Spark over these issues. If you or anyone else sells these planes in the US, you may have some problems here, since stealing copyrights are against the law here.
For people who are interested in purchasing these planes, Skymaster will not be liable for any damages caused by low quality work. Many of the planes were unable to pass Skymaster’s QC, and these are the remaining that Skymaster rejected because of quality problems. There is a very high risk that these planes are not stable. Also, we will not provide any accessories, technical support, or customer service for these planes. If you like Skymaster plane, please buy it from Skymaster authorized dealars.
It is very clear that Skymaster designed these planes. We hope that everyone will support Skymaster in this act of deceit by these companies, support copyright, and hope that you will boycott these products. We do not want these companies or products associated with the Skymaster name.
You might reference :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32..._Gripen/tm.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ms. Young/ Linux,
Please indicate your relationship with Spark and Jetlegend, and also why Jetlegent doesn’t show their address. Is there some reason you are not providing it? You are not a modeler, and this is the your first post. Are you trying to post a commercial post?
Skymaster designed those planes you are selling, and Spark is selling the designs without authorization. In the past we had some planes OEMed by Spark, and many of those planes you have may be the ones that couldn’t pass our quality control. We are currently in a legal battle with Spark over these issues. If you or anyone else sells these planes in the US, you may have some problems here, since stealing copyrights are against the law here.
For people who are interested in purchasing these planes, Skymaster will not be liable for any damages caused by low quality work. Many of the planes were unable to pass Skymaster’s QC, and these are the remaining that Skymaster rejected because of quality problems. There is a very high risk that these planes are not stable. Also, we will not provide any accessories, technical support, or customer service for these planes. If you like Skymaster plane, please buy it from Skymaster authorized dealars.
It is very clear that Skymaster designed these planes. We hope that everyone will support Skymaster in this act of deceit by these companies, support copyright, and hope that you will boycott these products. We do not want these companies or products associated with the Skymaster name.
10-05-2005, 08:10 AM
#12
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Jet Legend?
ORIGINAL: jeff sewell
Hi EASYTIGER,
Well one thing that springs to mind about not staying loyal to a particular company - Territory Protection - the authorised ability to prevent a potential customer from buying these products elsewhere whilst applying a pricing policy that may be higher than anywhere else globally.
If I can get what I want from another company then I am, as sure as hell, going to use them. Let everyone else sort out the moral and ethical issues - I'm just in it for fun!
Hi EASYTIGER,
Well one thing that springs to mind about not staying loyal to a particular company - Territory Protection - the authorised ability to prevent a potential customer from buying these products elsewhere whilst applying a pricing policy that may be higher than anywhere else globally.
If I can get what I want from another company then I am, as sure as hell, going to use them. Let everyone else sort out the moral and ethical issues - I'm just in it for fun!
But in this case, evidently(and only these two companes really know) it seems NOT to be a simple calse of cloning, but a previous business arrangement between the two that went sour, and this is leftover inventory. No moral issues whatsoever, to me.
10-05-2005, 08:19 AM
#13
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Jet Legend?
ORIGINAL: AirPac Models
This is my post for the Jetlegend/ Spark issue in the other thread.
You might reference :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32..._Gripen/tm.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ms. Young/ Linux,
Please indicate your relationship with Spark and Jetlegend, and also why Jetlegent doesn’t show their address. Is there some reason you are not providing it? You are not a modeler, and this is the your first post. Are you trying to post a commercial post?
Skymaster designed those planes you are selling, and Spark is selling the designs without authorization. In the past we had some planes OEMed by Spark, and many of those planes you have may be the ones that couldn’t pass our quality control. We are currently in a legal battle with Spark over these issues. If you or anyone else sells these planes in the US, you may have some problems here, since stealing copyrights are against the law here.
For people who are interested in purchasing these planes, Skymaster will not be liable for any damages caused by low quality work. Many of the planes were unable to pass Skymaster’s QC, and these are the remaining that Skymaster rejected because of quality problems. There is a very high risk that these planes are not stable. Also, we will not provide any accessories, technical support, or customer service for these planes. If you like Skymaster plane, please buy it from Skymaster authorized dealars.
It is very clear that Skymaster designed these planes. We hope that everyone will support Skymaster in this act of deceit by these companies, support copyright, and hope that you will boycott these products. We do not want these companies or products associated with the Skymaster name.
This is my post for the Jetlegend/ Spark issue in the other thread.
You might reference :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32..._Gripen/tm.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ms. Young/ Linux,
Please indicate your relationship with Spark and Jetlegend, and also why Jetlegent doesn’t show their address. Is there some reason you are not providing it? You are not a modeler, and this is the your first post. Are you trying to post a commercial post?
Skymaster designed those planes you are selling, and Spark is selling the designs without authorization. In the past we had some planes OEMed by Spark, and many of those planes you have may be the ones that couldn’t pass our quality control. We are currently in a legal battle with Spark over these issues. If you or anyone else sells these planes in the US, you may have some problems here, since stealing copyrights are against the law here.
For people who are interested in purchasing these planes, Skymaster will not be liable for any damages caused by low quality work. Many of the planes were unable to pass Skymaster’s QC, and these are the remaining that Skymaster rejected because of quality problems. There is a very high risk that these planes are not stable. Also, we will not provide any accessories, technical support, or customer service for these planes. If you like Skymaster plane, please buy it from Skymaster authorized dealars.
It is very clear that Skymaster designed these planes. We hope that everyone will support Skymaster in this act of deceit by these companies, support copyright, and hope that you will boycott these products. We do not want these companies or products associated with the Skymaster name.
10-05-2005, 08:23 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Honolulu,
HI
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
That kit version IS a heck of a deal. Nice.
That kit version IS a heck of a deal. Nice.
We are welcome fair competition, but not copy
10-05-2005, 08:32 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Honolulu,
HI
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
You keep saying these were "rejected because of quality control". Evidently, at least one customer got one, and feels the quality is fine.
You keep saying these were "rejected because of quality control". Evidently, at least one customer got one, and feels the quality is fine.
10-05-2005, 09:49 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Honolulu,
HI
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Rumors claim that the reason that Spark is selling the planes is that Skymaster failed to pay them for the planes in order to compensate for their losses. If you use your common sense, you will figure out that this makes no sense. I have a few points for you to think about.
1. If Spark already produced the planes in which they claim we did not pick up, why would they not only have a ARF form, but also Kit? All of Skymaster products are only ARFs. Obviously, these were not the ones we ordered.
2. As many people we recall, we had a lot of planes out of stock and on back order earlier this year. We discontinued ordering from Spark earlier this year. If we have so many back orders, why would we not pick these planes up and make a profit?
3. If they claim that Skymaster failed to pay for these planes, why are they not making efforts to collect the payment legally or physically. We have already hired a lawyer and filed a lawsuit against Spark for illegally using our designs.
4. The rumor also claims that Skymaster has financial problems. However, if you haven’t noticed, Skymaster has continuously been growing over the past couple years. Even recently, we just had a couple of new planes introduced to the market. If we have financial problems and were unable to pay Spark, where would Skymaster find the funds to develop new planes?
5. We did have our products OEMed from Spark over a year (from 2003 t0 2004) (which means we provided the design and they manufactured the products for us). We had too many quality issues with the company, so we discontinued using their services because they couldn’t pass our quality inspections. This is the reason we decided to manufacture on our own, is to maintain our quality standards.
Hopefully these things will clear up these issues. We hop that all of these rumors will stop here.
1. If Spark already produced the planes in which they claim we did not pick up, why would they not only have a ARF form, but also Kit? All of Skymaster products are only ARFs. Obviously, these were not the ones we ordered.
2. As many people we recall, we had a lot of planes out of stock and on back order earlier this year. We discontinued ordering from Spark earlier this year. If we have so many back orders, why would we not pick these planes up and make a profit?
3. If they claim that Skymaster failed to pay for these planes, why are they not making efforts to collect the payment legally or physically. We have already hired a lawyer and filed a lawsuit against Spark for illegally using our designs.
4. The rumor also claims that Skymaster has financial problems. However, if you haven’t noticed, Skymaster has continuously been growing over the past couple years. Even recently, we just had a couple of new planes introduced to the market. If we have financial problems and were unable to pay Spark, where would Skymaster find the funds to develop new planes?
5. We did have our products OEMed from Spark over a year (from 2003 t0 2004) (which means we provided the design and they manufactured the products for us). We had too many quality issues with the company, so we discontinued using their services because they couldn’t pass our quality inspections. This is the reason we decided to manufacture on our own, is to maintain our quality standards.
Hopefully these things will clear up these issues. We hop that all of these rumors will stop here.
10-05-2005, 09:51 AM
#17
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Jet Legend?
ORIGINAL: AirPac Models
This is a kit not ARF, many our problems with Spark are after assembled. Also again, copyright is something you might think about.
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
You keep saying these were "rejected because of quality control". Evidently, at least one customer got one, and feels the quality is fine.
You keep saying these were "rejected because of quality control". Evidently, at least one customer got one, and feels the quality is fine.
Do they have the molds to make more?
Evidently, they have some new projects in the works that are NOT identical to Skymaster stuff. Sounds good.
I know this was originally presented as "Jetlegend just copied skymaster", it seems from posts from both sides that such is not the case, it may not be that simple. Only Anton Lin and the guy who owns Sparks really know what transpired, and both probably have a different perspective on who is right, which happens in business disputes. Oh, well.
I don't think this is exactly a big threat to Skymaster, any more than Jetjoe is some big threat to Wren. Wren was smart...they just simply said: "Jetjoe has nothing to do with us, we don't support them in any way, caveat emptor", and left it at that.
Smart way of handling it. When you get into putting down other companies in a public forum, you probably come out on the losing end.
I don't think most of your customers are going to give up whatever service and support they get in order to save $200 or so off the price of an ARF. Since you don't offer the kit versions, that seems like no threat, either.
Just my two cents, does not mean much. Best of luck.
10-05-2005, 09:54 AM
#18
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: hull, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Hi EASYTIGER,
I can see the advantages of what you're saying about support - good point raised. Perhaps we ought to give them a chance - maybe after they have been around for as long as SM then you may see the same kind of service. Wait and see, I guess...
I can see the advantages of what you're saying about support - good point raised. Perhaps we ought to give them a chance - maybe after they have been around for as long as SM then you may see the same kind of service. Wait and see, I guess...
10-05-2005, 10:58 AM
#19
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: League City,
TX
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Something to think about between SM and Jetlegend
"Derivative Work"
In copyright law, a derivative work is an artistic creation that includes aspects of work previously created and protected.
In the United States, "derivative work" is defined in 17 USC 101, section 101:
A "derivative work" is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a "derivative work".
The concept of derivative works is a logical extension of the framework of copyright protection in the United States. It prevents others from misappropriating the original work of a creator and redistributing it with "trival" changes without permission. If a derivative work is created with the permission of the original creator, the secondary creator maintains a copyright interest in only the aspects of the derivative work that are his or her original creations.
One word of caution: There are subtle differences among the courts about the meaning of the term "derivative work."
Knowing that Jetlegend does not operate in the U.S., this copyright law is probably null and void. But I think the real question is has Jetlegend created a derivative work or not?
JR Gautreaux
"Derivative Work"
In copyright law, a derivative work is an artistic creation that includes aspects of work previously created and protected.
In the United States, "derivative work" is defined in 17 USC 101, section 101:
A "derivative work" is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a "derivative work".
The concept of derivative works is a logical extension of the framework of copyright protection in the United States. It prevents others from misappropriating the original work of a creator and redistributing it with "trival" changes without permission. If a derivative work is created with the permission of the original creator, the secondary creator maintains a copyright interest in only the aspects of the derivative work that are his or her original creations.
One word of caution: There are subtle differences among the courts about the meaning of the term "derivative work."
Knowing that Jetlegend does not operate in the U.S., this copyright law is probably null and void. But I think the real question is has Jetlegend created a derivative work or not?
JR Gautreaux
10-05-2005, 11:02 AM
#20
RE: Jet Legend?
I personally will not support THEFT and FRAUD. I will continue to purchase kits from Skymaster, not just because of the super support, but also because I refuse to STEAL from them by buying from a company selling knockoffs or unauthorized kits (Skymaster's design's are Skymaster's property).. If (hypothetically speaking) Composite ARF were to start making knockoff copies of BVM king cats, or selling kits that were "leftover inventory" i bet everyone here would have been apalled, and the tone of this thread would have been very diverent ...... so whats the diference ??
Support the vendors that support you ( without STEALING)
Wojtek
Support the vendors that support you ( without STEALING)
Wojtek
10-05-2005, 11:07 AM
#21
My Feedback: (28)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Heath,
TX
Posts: 3,886
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Is the JetLegend F-22 and the T-45 skymaster copies as well?
Just curious because I thought the F-22 was pretty new and how would they have the tooling for it?
Just curious because I thought the F-22 was pretty new and how would they have the tooling for it?
10-05-2005, 11:09 AM
#22
My Feedback: (12)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Davie,
FL
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jet Legend?
Airpac, since you asked the questions, I figured I would answer them from my viewpoint as an untrusting consumer playing Devil's advocate. I don't have anything to do with Skymaster or JetLegend...just a consumer that doesn't trust either party when stuff like this comes out. Until documentation is presented we all have to use our best judgements as to what is the truth. Unfortunately I don't see anything regarding the issue being out in the open to the public.
Please don't take this as criticism but as an opinion of a consumer looking at the 1/2 glass of water as half full but also looking at is as half empty.
Best of luck to both companies in resolving the issues.
Mark
ORIGINAL: AirPac Models
Rumors claim that the reason that Spark is selling the planes is that Skymaster failed to pay them for the planes in order to compensate for their losses. If you use your common sense, you will figure out that this makes no sense. I have a few points for you to think about.
1. If Spark already produced the planes in which they claim we did not pick up, why would they not only have a ARF form, but also Kit? All of Skymaster products are only ARFs. Obviously, these were not the ones we ordered.
HMMM If it were my company and Skymaster stopped paying their bills I surely wouldn't have my staff working to complete projects that are not going to be paid for by Skymaster.
2. As many people we recall, we had a lot of planes out of stock and on back order earlier this year. We discontinued ordering from Spark earlier this year. If we have so many back orders, why would we not pick these planes up and make a profit?
Hmmm again..if you had them on back order and keep announcing new models then maybe those folks changed their minds...because we always seem to want the latest and greatest.
3. If they claim that Skymaster failed to pay for these planes, why are they not making efforts to collect the payment legally or physically. We have already hired a lawyer and filed a lawsuit against Spark for illegally using our designs.
Considering the length of time since those models were introduced by Skymaster until the Jetlegend sale it seems they have been sitting around and probably trying to get their money out of Skymaster for that length of time if that was true. I don't know about the Chinese legal system but for all the copying that goes on there I doubt it is as serious an issue in court as in the U.S.
4. The rumor also claims that Skymaster has financial problems. However, if you haven’t noticed, Skymaster has continuously been growing over the past couple years. Even recently, we just had a couple of new planes introduced to the market. If we have financial problems and were unable to pay Spark, where would Skymaster find the funds to develop new planes?
Uhhh...thats obvious.....you moved to a new factory therefore short on funds...why pay Spark when you need the funds to produce your new products and pay for new factory where you have 100% control over the product/profits.
5. We did have our products OEMed from Spark over a year (from 2003 t0 2004) (which means we provided the design and they manufactured the products for us). We had too many quality issues with the company, so we discontinued using their services because they couldn’t pass our quality inspections. This is the reason we decided to manufacture on our own, is to maintain our quality standards.
The answer I would expect from any businessman. (Makes you look like the good guy) As consumers we will probably never know the truth unfortunately.
Hopefully these things will clear up these issues. We hop that all of these rumors will stop here.
Rumors claim that the reason that Spark is selling the planes is that Skymaster failed to pay them for the planes in order to compensate for their losses. If you use your common sense, you will figure out that this makes no sense. I have a few points for you to think about.
1. If Spark already produced the planes in which they claim we did not pick up, why would they not only have a ARF form, but also Kit? All of Skymaster products are only ARFs. Obviously, these were not the ones we ordered.
HMMM If it were my company and Skymaster stopped paying their bills I surely wouldn't have my staff working to complete projects that are not going to be paid for by Skymaster.
2. As many people we recall, we had a lot of planes out of stock and on back order earlier this year. We discontinued ordering from Spark earlier this year. If we have so many back orders, why would we not pick these planes up and make a profit?
Hmmm again..if you had them on back order and keep announcing new models then maybe those folks changed their minds...because we always seem to want the latest and greatest.
3. If they claim that Skymaster failed to pay for these planes, why are they not making efforts to collect the payment legally or physically. We have already hired a lawyer and filed a lawsuit against Spark for illegally using our designs.
Considering the length of time since those models were introduced by Skymaster until the Jetlegend sale it seems they have been sitting around and probably trying to get their money out of Skymaster for that length of time if that was true. I don't know about the Chinese legal system but for all the copying that goes on there I doubt it is as serious an issue in court as in the U.S.
4. The rumor also claims that Skymaster has financial problems. However, if you haven’t noticed, Skymaster has continuously been growing over the past couple years. Even recently, we just had a couple of new planes introduced to the market. If we have financial problems and were unable to pay Spark, where would Skymaster find the funds to develop new planes?
Uhhh...thats obvious.....you moved to a new factory therefore short on funds...why pay Spark when you need the funds to produce your new products and pay for new factory where you have 100% control over the product/profits.
5. We did have our products OEMed from Spark over a year (from 2003 t0 2004) (which means we provided the design and they manufactured the products for us). We had too many quality issues with the company, so we discontinued using their services because they couldn’t pass our quality inspections. This is the reason we decided to manufacture on our own, is to maintain our quality standards.
The answer I would expect from any businessman. (Makes you look like the good guy) As consumers we will probably never know the truth unfortunately.
Hopefully these things will clear up these issues. We hop that all of these rumors will stop here.
Best of luck to both companies in resolving the issues.
Mark
10-05-2005, 11:37 AM
#23
RE: Jet Legend?
ORIGINAL: BlackCloud
Airpac, since you asked the questions, I figured I would answer them from my viewpoint as an untrusting consumer playing Devil's advocate. I don't have anything to do with Skymaster or JetLegend...just a consumer that doesn't trust either party when stuff like this comes out. Until documentation is presented we all have to use our best judgements as to what is the truth. Unfortunately I don't see anything regarding the issue being out in the open to the public.
Please don't take this as criticism but as an opinion of a consumer looking at the 1/2 glass of water as half full but also looking at is as half empty.
Best of luck to both companies in resolving the issues.
Mark
Airpac, since you asked the questions, I figured I would answer them from my viewpoint as an untrusting consumer playing Devil's advocate. I don't have anything to do with Skymaster or JetLegend...just a consumer that doesn't trust either party when stuff like this comes out. Until documentation is presented we all have to use our best judgements as to what is the truth. Unfortunately I don't see anything regarding the issue being out in the open to the public.
ORIGINAL: AirPac Models
Rumors claim that the reason that Spark is selling the planes is that Skymaster failed to pay them for the planes in order to compensate for their losses. If you use your common sense, you will figure out that this makes no sense. I have a few points for you to think about.
1. If Spark already produced the planes in which they claim we did not pick up, why would they not only have a ARF form, but also Kit? All of Skymaster products are only ARFs. Obviously, these were not the ones we ordered.
HMMM If it were my company and Skymaster stopped paying their bills I surely wouldn't have my staff working to complete projects that are not going to be paid for by Skymaster.
2. As many people we recall, we had a lot of planes out of stock and on back order earlier this year. We discontinued ordering from Spark earlier this year. If we have so many back orders, why would we not pick these planes up and make a profit?
Hmmm again..if you had them on back order and keep announcing new models then maybe those folks changed their minds...because we always seem to want the latest and greatest.
3. If they claim that Skymaster failed to pay for these planes, why are they not making efforts to collect the payment legally or physically. We have already hired a lawyer and filed a lawsuit against Spark for illegally using our designs.
Considering the length of time since those models were introduced by Skymaster until the Jetlegend sale it seems they have been sitting around and probably trying to get their money out of Skymaster for that length of time if that was true. I don't know about the Chinese legal system but for all the copying that goes on there I doubt it is as serious an issue in court as in the U.S.
4. The rumor also claims that Skymaster has financial problems. However, if you haven’t noticed, Skymaster has continuously been growing over the past couple years. Even recently, we just had a couple of new planes introduced to the market. If we have financial problems and were unable to pay Spark, where would Skymaster find the funds to develop new planes?
Uhhh...thats obvious.....you moved to a new factory therefore short on funds...why pay Spark when you need the funds to produce your new products and pay for new factory where you have 100% control over the product/profits.
5. We did have our products OEMed from Spark over a year (from 2003 t0 2004) (which means we provided the design and they manufactured the products for us). We had too many quality issues with the company, so we discontinued using their services because they couldn’t pass our quality inspections. This is the reason we decided to manufacture on our own, is to maintain our quality standards.
The answer I would expect from any businessman. (Makes you look like the good guy) As consumers we will probably never know the truth unfortunately.
Hopefully these things will clear up these issues. We hop that all of these rumors will stop here.
Rumors claim that the reason that Spark is selling the planes is that Skymaster failed to pay them for the planes in order to compensate for their losses. If you use your common sense, you will figure out that this makes no sense. I have a few points for you to think about.
1. If Spark already produced the planes in which they claim we did not pick up, why would they not only have a ARF form, but also Kit? All of Skymaster products are only ARFs. Obviously, these were not the ones we ordered.
HMMM If it were my company and Skymaster stopped paying their bills I surely wouldn't have my staff working to complete projects that are not going to be paid for by Skymaster.
2. As many people we recall, we had a lot of planes out of stock and on back order earlier this year. We discontinued ordering from Spark earlier this year. If we have so many back orders, why would we not pick these planes up and make a profit?
Hmmm again..if you had them on back order and keep announcing new models then maybe those folks changed their minds...because we always seem to want the latest and greatest.
3. If they claim that Skymaster failed to pay for these planes, why are they not making efforts to collect the payment legally or physically. We have already hired a lawyer and filed a lawsuit against Spark for illegally using our designs.
Considering the length of time since those models were introduced by Skymaster until the Jetlegend sale it seems they have been sitting around and probably trying to get their money out of Skymaster for that length of time if that was true. I don't know about the Chinese legal system but for all the copying that goes on there I doubt it is as serious an issue in court as in the U.S.
4. The rumor also claims that Skymaster has financial problems. However, if you haven’t noticed, Skymaster has continuously been growing over the past couple years. Even recently, we just had a couple of new planes introduced to the market. If we have financial problems and were unable to pay Spark, where would Skymaster find the funds to develop new planes?
Uhhh...thats obvious.....you moved to a new factory therefore short on funds...why pay Spark when you need the funds to produce your new products and pay for new factory where you have 100% control over the product/profits.
5. We did have our products OEMed from Spark over a year (from 2003 t0 2004) (which means we provided the design and they manufactured the products for us). We had too many quality issues with the company, so we discontinued using their services because they couldn’t pass our quality inspections. This is the reason we decided to manufacture on our own, is to maintain our quality standards.
The answer I would expect from any businessman. (Makes you look like the good guy) As consumers we will probably never know the truth unfortunately.
Hopefully these things will clear up these issues. We hop that all of these rumors will stop here.
Best of luck to both companies in resolving the issues.
Mark
Your responces are (IMO) are Valid .
Shok
Jet Legends T45 is smaller
Semper Fi
10-05-2005, 02:21 PM
#25
RE: Jet Legend?
If Spark is selling off unpaid for inventory, that would legal..depending on their (Skymaster and Spark) agreement. We've only heard one side of the story (Skymaster's).
To me, that's kind of a side issue. Wiring money to China to get questionable (non-existent?) support doesn't give me warm fuzzies. Every time I've needed something for my early-run F-15 I've gotten a phone call, or email back from Eric (Airpac) the same day. If you got the kit and there was some kind of damage or a problem, I'd rather to be able to pick up the phone and talk to a person (who speaks English) and get it quickly resolved.
Even if they weren't the same aircraft, I'd go with the reputable company because of the support. Maybe for some they will work out....but I bet most people in the US will want to be able to get their questions/problems taken care of by a person here, and will pay a little more for the service.
To me, that's kind of a side issue. Wiring money to China to get questionable (non-existent?) support doesn't give me warm fuzzies. Every time I've needed something for my early-run F-15 I've gotten a phone call, or email back from Eric (Airpac) the same day. If you got the kit and there was some kind of damage or a problem, I'd rather to be able to pick up the phone and talk to a person (who speaks English) and get it quickly resolved.
Even if they weren't the same aircraft, I'd go with the reputable company because of the support. Maybe for some they will work out....but I bet most people in the US will want to be able to get their questions/problems taken care of by a person here, and will pay a little more for the service.