Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
09-10-2010, 08:15 AM
#351
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
ORIGINAL: JoeEagle
Furloughed UAL
i am looking at the two pics in this post as i scratch my head thinking about my brain block on where to put my door cylinder. i have a 1'' (acutally, its more like 1.25'') throw cylinder from Ultra Precision. when i put it in the wheel well, i have to move it up to the opening of the wheel, and its kind of in the way if i try to put it at the top (mounting stance too wide) and in close to the wheel if i put it at the bottom.
i was just ready to tack glue in the ply mount, then looked again at this picture.
ooking at yours i am thinking that you have put a long extension on your cylinder rod. is that what you did? how long was the stroke? did you mount it where you did so you would be tied into the carbon cloth?
so, since my UP cylinder terminates in a 4-40 thread, what method are people using to make an extension? the only thing i can think of is to use a bit of CF tubing, screw it into the 4-40 (if i am lucky enough to have a perfect fit) then perhaps add a bit of Q-Poxy to secure it, and add some 4-40 threaded rod to the other end of the CF tube.
or, maybe just buy the robart cylinders?
also, i am a bit concerned about over driving the horn.....how does one prevent that? by perfectly sizing the stroke of the cylinder?
dumb questions but this is my 1st gear door install and i'd like to do it one time only.
thanks!!
Furloughed UAL
i am looking at the two pics in this post as i scratch my head thinking about my brain block on where to put my door cylinder. i have a 1'' (acutally, its more like 1.25'') throw cylinder from Ultra Precision. when i put it in the wheel well, i have to move it up to the opening of the wheel, and its kind of in the way if i try to put it at the top (mounting stance too wide) and in close to the wheel if i put it at the bottom.
i was just ready to tack glue in the ply mount, then looked again at this picture.
ooking at yours i am thinking that you have put a long extension on your cylinder rod. is that what you did? how long was the stroke? did you mount it where you did so you would be tied into the carbon cloth?
so, since my UP cylinder terminates in a 4-40 thread, what method are people using to make an extension? the only thing i can think of is to use a bit of CF tubing, screw it into the 4-40 (if i am lucky enough to have a perfect fit) then perhaps add a bit of Q-Poxy to secure it, and add some 4-40 threaded rod to the other end of the CF tube.
or, maybe just buy the robart cylinders?
also, i am a bit concerned about over driving the horn.....how does one prevent that? by perfectly sizing the stroke of the cylinder?
dumb questions but this is my 1st gear door install and i'd like to do it one time only.
thanks!!
Your problem is not the cylinder stroke but the fact that the connecting rod is too short. CARF has a special upgrade kit (I think the p/n is 630525) which includes the cylinders and the extension rods that fit exactly to your application. This is what I've used in all my Lightnings. The kit cost around 85 Euro, but I'm not sure if they still have it available for you. You should ask them. Maybe Dave Wilshere can help you in this.
Here is a small pic that I found with the kit. The kit has only 2 cylinders and they are Robart type 1" stroke.
The connecting rod is threaded at both ends with different threadings to fit the air-cylinder and the end-clevise.
Regards,
Tassos
09-10-2010, 10:19 AM
#352
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
ah HA!
well, that makes sense. i see if they have the part anymore.
my guess is not probably.
i just went down to my little workroom and checked. i did have CF tubing that will accept a 4-40 thread(tight fit) so i may just thread a length of CF to the existing cylinder and epoxy that in place, put some 4-4-40 all thread rod on the other end and then wrap the CF/4-40 interface with kevlar thread to keep the CF from splitting. kinda of a PITA, but perhaps a solution if i cannot find that part.
Tassos, thanks again for monitoring this thread. you have been very helpful.
now, back to work for me!
joe
well, that makes sense. i see if they have the part anymore.
my guess is not probably.
i just went down to my little workroom and checked. i did have CF tubing that will accept a 4-40 thread(tight fit) so i may just thread a length of CF to the existing cylinder and epoxy that in place, put some 4-4-40 all thread rod on the other end and then wrap the CF/4-40 interface with kevlar thread to keep the CF from splitting. kinda of a PITA, but perhaps a solution if i cannot find that part.
Tassos, thanks again for monitoring this thread. you have been very helpful.
now, back to work for me!
joe
09-19-2010, 02:03 PM
#353
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
Tassos
Good afternoon.
why did you change the position of the flap servo arm? what advantage is it to have the servo arm move towards the bottom of the wing skin vice the top? just installing servo now.
thanks!
Good afternoon.
why did you change the position of the flap servo arm? what advantage is it to have the servo arm move towards the bottom of the wing skin vice the top? just installing servo now.
thanks!
09-19-2010, 03:24 PM
#354
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
ORIGINAL: JoeEagle
Tassos
Good afternoon.
why did you change the position of the flap servo arm? what advantage is it to have the servo arm move towards the bottom of the wing skin vice the top? just installing servo now.
thanks!
Tassos
Good afternoon.
why did you change the position of the flap servo arm? what advantage is it to have the servo arm move towards the bottom of the wing skin vice the top? just installing servo now.
thanks!
Well you will find that installing the servo arm as per the original instructions the flap linking rod will not be able to be connected or moved through the opening made in factory. You will have to reverse the arm in order for the rod not to be obstructed.
All the wings I constructed were like this. I'm not sure how your wings are but try to look closely at the opening that the rod goes through.
In fact now that I remember the linking rod has to be made smaller than the original instructions (maybe half the size). I did it by trial and error.
Let me know if I can help some more.
Tassos
09-19-2010, 04:00 PM
#355
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
Tassos
i am off to the store to try and buy more 3mm all thread rod. the rod that they gave me for the ailerons was 120mm not 150mm like called for so it is too darn short.....
my UL wings do not use the single phenolic horn, but use a dual horn that requires a ball link and not the aluminium clevis as supplied. now i am trying to figure out how to attach the darn balll link since there is very little space to put in a 2.5mm ball driver to put the 3mm bolt through the horn-i figured i would have the darn wing done today and i travel all this week so i have about 2 more hours then i am kaput.
no hobby store within close range before they close, so i am stuck if i cannot find the 3mm all thread rod. i have a TON of 4-40 but no nifty ball links that fit the phenolic control horns.....
sometimes this hobby........
thanks for your help.
joe
i am off to the store to try and buy more 3mm all thread rod. the rod that they gave me for the ailerons was 120mm not 150mm like called for so it is too darn short.....
my UL wings do not use the single phenolic horn, but use a dual horn that requires a ball link and not the aluminium clevis as supplied. now i am trying to figure out how to attach the darn balll link since there is very little space to put in a 2.5mm ball driver to put the 3mm bolt through the horn-i figured i would have the darn wing done today and i travel all this week so i have about 2 more hours then i am kaput.
no hobby store within close range before they close, so i am stuck if i cannot find the 3mm all thread rod. i have a TON of 4-40 but no nifty ball links that fit the phenolic control horns.....
sometimes this hobby........
thanks for your help.
joe
09-19-2010, 07:23 PM
#356
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
On the UL wing, the flap linkage is reversed from what the classic manual says. The clevis goes on the servoarm &ball end on the flap horns. Also, install the servoarm towards the bottom skin like Tassos said. There is more clearance for the arm this way vs. pointing towards the top skin. My wings neededa small piece of 1/16" plyunder the aft end ofthe servo to get the linkage perfectly straight thruthe full travel range. If you look close you can see the added piece. Your wings may not need this.
09-19-2010, 08:10 PM
#357
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
Scott
thansk for the PICS.. makes sense now.
but, i already threaded the servo arms for 3MM bolt. will the clevis work there?
now all i have to do is find a source for 3MM all threaded rod. hoping one of the hobbyshops will have some. 2 local ones dont.
joe
thansk for the PICS.. makes sense now.
but, i already threaded the servo arms for 3MM bolt. will the clevis work there?
now all i have to do is find a source for 3MM all threaded rod. hoping one of the hobbyshops will have some. 2 local ones dont.
joe
09-19-2010, 08:28 PM
#358
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
You may be able to smooth out the threads in the arm for the clevis pin. Just make sure there is no slop or play. Worse case, just buy 2 new SWB arms.
I get 3mm rod from McMaster-Carr in Elmhurst - located close to Al's hobby shop.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#94185a140/=8x6h6p
I get 3mm rod from McMaster-Carr in Elmhurst - located close to Al's hobby shop.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#94185a140/=8x6h6p
09-19-2010, 08:45 PM
#359
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
thanks Scott i just spent 20 minutes trying to find somewhere that hss it in stock. Todd doesn have it, not at H9, Dubro, Sullivan. bummer
guess i am going to go shopping friday! wonder if Al has any 3mm BallLinks.
they probably dont have any SWB arms....boo hoo..
joe
guess i am going to go shopping friday! wonder if Al has any 3mm BallLinks.
they probably dont have any SWB arms....boo hoo..
joe
09-22-2010, 12:05 PM
#360
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
ORIGINAL: JoeEagle
ah HA!
well, that makes sense. i see if they have the part anymore.
ah HA!
well, that makes sense. i see if they have the part anymore.
Joe,
If you go to http://carf-models.com/public_carf/p...earchForm.html and type 630525 you will find that they still have this kit available. Unfortunatelly however they charge it 118 Euros which I think is a steal!!!
Regards, Tassos
09-25-2010, 06:12 PM
#361
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
Scott and Tassos
well, i just picked up some of the 3mm rod that Scott was nice enough to give me a lead on. a couple of questions.
1. it is WAAAAY more flexible than the "stock" rod from CARF. Any idea what to order next time from McMaster Carr for a stiffer piece of 3mm threaded rod? this was 316 stainless?
i know i can put a piece of CF or brass over the rod to make it stiffer, i am just trying to make the slot in the wing as small as possible and with the extra diameter of the CF or brass, i'll have to make the opening bigger. just thinking for the next time.
2. when trying to get out a allen key that i had dropped into the wing, while shaking the wing back and forth a piece of hard balsa fell out. it is about 2" long. a tiny bit of glue on one end. hard/tight balsa, actually two blocks (2"x 1/2" glued together).
any idea what the heck it is, and more importantly, should i be concerned?
well, i just picked up some of the 3mm rod that Scott was nice enough to give me a lead on. a couple of questions.
1. it is WAAAAY more flexible than the "stock" rod from CARF. Any idea what to order next time from McMaster Carr for a stiffer piece of 3mm threaded rod? this was 316 stainless?
i know i can put a piece of CF or brass over the rod to make it stiffer, i am just trying to make the slot in the wing as small as possible and with the extra diameter of the CF or brass, i'll have to make the opening bigger. just thinking for the next time.
2. when trying to get out a allen key that i had dropped into the wing, while shaking the wing back and forth a piece of hard balsa fell out. it is about 2" long. a tiny bit of glue on one end. hard/tight balsa, actually two blocks (2"x 1/2" glued together).
any idea what the heck it is, and more importantly, should i be concerned?
10-01-2010, 12:40 PM
#362
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
ORIGINAL: JoeEagle
Scott and Tassos
well, i just picked up some of the 3mm rod that Scott was nice enough to give me a lead on. a couple of questions.
1. it is WAAAAY more flexible than the ''stock'' rod from CARF. Any idea what to order next time from McMaster Carr for a stiffer piece of 3mm threaded rod? this was 316 stainless?
i know i can put a piece of CF or brass over the rod to make it stiffer, i am just trying to make the slot in the wing as small as possible and with the extra diameter of the CF or brass, i'll have to make the opening bigger. just thinking for the next time.
2. when trying to get out a allen key that i had dropped into the wing, while shaking the wing back and forth a piece of hard balsa fell out. it is about 2'' long. a tiny bit of glue on one end. hard/tight balsa, actually two blocks (2''x 1/2'' glued together).
any idea what the heck it is, and more importantly, should i be concerned?
Scott and Tassos
well, i just picked up some of the 3mm rod that Scott was nice enough to give me a lead on. a couple of questions.
1. it is WAAAAY more flexible than the ''stock'' rod from CARF. Any idea what to order next time from McMaster Carr for a stiffer piece of 3mm threaded rod? this was 316 stainless?
i know i can put a piece of CF or brass over the rod to make it stiffer, i am just trying to make the slot in the wing as small as possible and with the extra diameter of the CF or brass, i'll have to make the opening bigger. just thinking for the next time.
2. when trying to get out a allen key that i had dropped into the wing, while shaking the wing back and forth a piece of hard balsa fell out. it is about 2'' long. a tiny bit of glue on one end. hard/tight balsa, actually two blocks (2''x 1/2'' glued together).
any idea what the heck it is, and more importantly, should i be concerned?
Sorry for my late answer. I was away on business trip.
1. What is this 3mm rod used for? For the Ailerons? I have made it stiffer with some brass tube over it. The whole is only bigger by a few mm. Doesn't affect anything.
2. This is probably a wood used as a guide while gluing. I wouldn't be very worried about it but I'd report it to CARF.
Regards, Tassos
01-05-2011, 12:46 AM
#363
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
I have questions on the bypass attachment. It seems that i have the forward T-nuts in backward, and i want to punch them out and put the T-nuts in from the front on the forward bulkhead. Also is the 3/32 ply (two bulkheads) all that hold 52 lbs of thrust back? I would love to see some install pictures.
Is the best rout for the wing air lines and flap and aeleron wires ahead of the main spar tube, as instructions, as it seems more natural to bring them in behind. Pictures here would be good. I did find pictures early on this thread, but im not sure if there are more opinions now two years later.
John
Is the best rout for the wing air lines and flap and aeleron wires ahead of the main spar tube, as instructions, as it seems more natural to bring them in behind. Pictures here would be good. I did find pictures early on this thread, but im not sure if there are more opinions now two years later.
John
01-05-2011, 05:53 AM
#364
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
ORIGINAL: indubitably
I have questions on the bypass attachment. It seems that i have the forward T-nuts in backward, and i want to punch them out and put the T-nuts in from the front on the forward bulkhead. Also is the 3/32 ply (two bulkheads) all that hold 52 lbs of thrust back? I would love to see some install pictures.
Is the best rout for the wing air lines and flap and aeleron wires ahead of the main spar tube, as instructions, as it seems more natural to bring them in behind. Pictures here would be good. I did find pictures early on this thread, but im not sure if there are more opinions now two years later.
John
I have questions on the bypass attachment. It seems that i have the forward T-nuts in backward, and i want to punch them out and put the T-nuts in from the front on the forward bulkhead. Also is the 3/32 ply (two bulkheads) all that hold 52 lbs of thrust back? I would love to see some install pictures.
Is the best rout for the wing air lines and flap and aeleron wires ahead of the main spar tube, as instructions, as it seems more natural to bring them in behind. Pictures here would be good. I did find pictures early on this thread, but im not sure if there are more opinions now two years later.
John
But do you have the classic Lightning wings or the Ultra? In case you have the Ultra you can check some pictures for the air lines routing here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10111506
Tassos
01-05-2011, 05:59 AM
#365
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
And yes, the forward t nuts are on the wrong side of the former, or at least I know they were on mine and on a friends.
01-05-2011, 06:16 AM
#366
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
ORIGINAL: Geoff White
And yes, the forward t nuts are on the wrong side of the former, or at least I know they were on mine and on a friends.
And yes, the forward t nuts are on the wrong side of the former, or at least I know they were on mine and on a friends.
(now, we also have big problems with the mounting tabs on the thrusttubes, they are placed approx 30mm wrong ! But no fix from them, will have to make some serious standoffs...)
01-05-2011, 08:24 AM
#368
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
Thank you for the reassurances. Its not like me on a first build to challenge what comes pre assembled, but then there is stress where it does not quite add up, and i think of making changes. There is so much help here. Thank you.
John
ps. I think my standoffs are ok on the tailpipe.
John
ps. I think my standoffs are ok on the tailpipe.
08-01-2011, 07:20 AM
#369
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
Got my ultra lightning yesturday in the mail...plan to use 160sx for power....mine is in the silver black and orange...man this is a huge plane..makes my ultra flash look like a little plane...I hope it flys as good....will try to get some photos up if I can figure how...
11-18-2011, 11:01 AM
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
hello all would anybody have some up close photos of how to properly install the tams stainless steel tailpipe...thanks pat
11-18-2011, 12:17 PM
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
I have retro fitted a Tam pipe to my UL. There's very little to do. What is it you need to know?
Rob
Rob
11-18-2011, 11:45 PM
#374
RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
Hello there,
I'm not sure if these will help you but here they are.
I would suggest to you to check the following 2 points:
1) What engine are you using? For a 160 size the pipe should remain as is. In case of a 180/200 size engine then you must take care to leave 25-30 distance between the exhaust nozzle of the engine and the inlet of the exhaust pipe as per turbine instructions. In this case the Tam jets pipe needs to be reduced about 15-20mm in length at the inlet of course. I am using a P180 in both of my UL and I found that the engine worked with more power and cooler when I cut away some exhaust material.
2) As per the last pic please check that the inner tube is recessed-shorter in length than the outer tube. It happened to me once that Tam sent me a pipe that the inner and outer tube at the exhaust were flat. This causes also operating issues to the engine.
I hope it helps.
Tassos
I'm not sure if these will help you but here they are.
I would suggest to you to check the following 2 points:
1) What engine are you using? For a 160 size the pipe should remain as is. In case of a 180/200 size engine then you must take care to leave 25-30 distance between the exhaust nozzle of the engine and the inlet of the exhaust pipe as per turbine instructions. In this case the Tam jets pipe needs to be reduced about 15-20mm in length at the inlet of course. I am using a P180 in both of my UL and I found that the engine worked with more power and cooler when I cut away some exhaust material.
2) As per the last pic please check that the inner tube is recessed-shorter in length than the outer tube. It happened to me once that Tam sent me a pipe that the inner and outer tube at the exhaust were flat. This causes also operating issues to the engine.
I hope it helps.
Tassos
11-19-2011, 03:40 AM
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RE: Composite-ARF Lightning Build Thread
hello i think we have a misunderstanding...i need a photo of the tail pipre not the thrust tube.. i have a custopm stainless steel tail pipe to install.. i know a few guys have put one on...sorry and thanks anyway..