Propjet, mig 27 target drone
03-02-2007, 04:45 PM
#176
RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I just e-mailed another guy looking for these migs.I just found a guy yesterday that has a bunch of these.the problem is the cost of shipping.they require over sized boxes to ship them.Let me know if interested--------BIGMIG
03-02-2007, 08:53 PM
#177
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I am in Perry, Gerogia, are they anywhere on the east coast, and how much are they?
oporter
[email protected][sm=shades_smile.gif]
oporter
[email protected][sm=shades_smile.gif]
03-03-2007, 04:21 PM
#179
RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I would say in your hand for $75.00 would be a very good buy.The problem is shipping one of them can cost that much or more.I like the big planes because I'll be 64 years old in a few more days and my eyesight and reflex are not what they are when you are younger.I will post next week a place where you can get the planes at a good price if you can figure out a cheap way to have them shipped.They are on the east coast,I'm in washington state and that is one of the big problems for me.These Planes I think,are really neat.There are many different ways,and things a guy can do with these MIGS.Just go to the hobby shops and look at their prices on kit planes,not to mention kit planes of this size.I have one I just completed and ready to fly.I have 2 more on the way to me also,and I still want to buy 2 or 3 more yet.
Go to ( mig 27 foam drone carl goldberg::forum ) I will post the guys phone and address next week after i do some weeling & dealing for myself.-------------BIGMIG
Go to ( mig 27 foam drone carl goldberg::forum ) I will post the guys phone and address next week after i do some weeling & dealing for myself.-------------BIGMIG
03-04-2007, 10:27 PM
#181
RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I couldn't say. It was propped up against the wall in an open box. I recognized what it was but didn't inquire about it since I have two at home in the shed to make airworthy.
On a slightly off-topic subject, are folks aware that the Mig-27 had a 'sister ship' in the form of a F-16? These are both covered in the same military TM manual. I had never seen one outside of the manual until last fall. One of my fellow flyers was called by the attendant at one of the local recycling centers. Seems that this elderly lady was hauling off a load of stuff and he was helping her put some large boxes in the bulk waste container. He noticed what looked like a wing sticking out of one so he saved them for my friend. Turns out it was a complete set of the F-16 which consisted of 3 boxes (2 unopened) of the airframes and a fourth box with the accessories. The accessories included the K&B engine still in the bag, a sack of wooden props, fuel tanks, glue, servos and even the military receiver (useless on our channels). Some folks have all the luck. One interesting thing about the F-16 was that it only used one aileron, on the left wing.
On a slightly off-topic subject, are folks aware that the Mig-27 had a 'sister ship' in the form of a F-16? These are both covered in the same military TM manual. I had never seen one outside of the manual until last fall. One of my fellow flyers was called by the attendant at one of the local recycling centers. Seems that this elderly lady was hauling off a load of stuff and he was helping her put some large boxes in the bulk waste container. He noticed what looked like a wing sticking out of one so he saved them for my friend. Turns out it was a complete set of the F-16 which consisted of 3 boxes (2 unopened) of the airframes and a fourth box with the accessories. The accessories included the K&B engine still in the bag, a sack of wooden props, fuel tanks, glue, servos and even the military receiver (useless on our channels). Some folks have all the luck. One interesting thing about the F-16 was that it only used one aileron, on the left wing.
03-07-2007, 10:01 PM
#183
RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I just put the guys number on ( ARMY TARGET R/C PLANE Dated 3-8-2007 ) for any of you who are looking for one or more of these MIGS.I have not bought any of these yet from him,so do your homework before you order from him??
BIGMIG
P.S. I will be buying several more soon.
BIGMIG
P.S. I will be buying several more soon.
03-07-2007, 10:14 PM
#184
RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
There's always Coleman's:
http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Co...ct/View/356201
http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Co...ct/View/410101
although these seem a little pricey and you don't know what the shipping will be...
http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Co...ct/View/356201
http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Co...ct/View/410101
although these seem a little pricey and you don't know what the shipping will be...
03-08-2007, 12:54 AM
#185
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I just checked Coleman's, I don't see where this thing weighs 42 pounds. I'm going to be selling two of them and I don't think the two boxes weigh ten pounds! I don't know, $150 is steep for these, even with the engine. The receiver is good fishing weight, but the people in California would accuse one of trying to poison the world if it were used for that! I'm going to ask $150 for the two I have and that includes shipping, when I post it. These can be cut in half to avoid the big package problem. Good luck!
03-08-2007, 01:09 AM
#187
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I might drive from Tampa to Boston (via Atlanta and Penn) this spring with my trailor. I could stop in Penn and pick up a bunch of migs if I could get a good price.
I would be willing to pick up some extras for people along 85/75. Post if you are interested
I would be willing to pick up some extras for people along 85/75. Post if you are interested
04-13-2007, 09:53 AM
#188
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
The FQM117-B Story
I’ve noticed some new posts on some of the threads discussing the FQM117-B or Mig-27 target drones lately. Apparently there are some of the original RS Systems and more recently the Carl Goldberg Models targets available for sale on Ebay as well as other places. In the interest of preserving some of the history of these unique model airplanes (at least four of the major players are now gone) I present this account of the development and production of the first of what the Army designated as FQM-117-B or the RS Mig. What follows is a short history of the first RS MIG-27 airplane No.1 (pictures attached) of which there was only 1 prototype built and over a period of a few days in the Spring of 1983 evolved into what became the FQM-117-B of which RS produced approximately 45K copies between 1983 and 1986.
In the early 80’s RS Systems was the main provider of small expendable aerial targets used for air defense training to the U.S. Army and Marine Corps. The target of choice was a .61 powered flying wing ironically designated as the FQM-117-A (Stealth Fighter) do a Google for more details. The Army was interested in procuring a new target that was more realistic, hence the FQM-117-B was born.
Like anything built to an Army spec everything is a compromise. The basic contract requirements were; had to be 1/9th scale, had to be assembled in the field in 10 minutes or less, hand launched and had to be able to carry a 5 pound payload. Of course there were many other specifications for the radio and field support equipment but that’s another story.
The first and only prototype was built (by myself, Jeff Hickam and Kirk Wicker) nearly to scale with the biggest change being about a 40% increase in wing area (try hand launching an 8 lb .61 powered model with an extra 5 lb dead weight on it sometime). Much later in the program we did some testing to see exactly how much extra weight the airplane could carry and still be hand launch; if memory serves me it was an all up weight of about 18 lbs, what fun! Airplane no.1 also had a flying stab which used a couple of K&B .61 crank bearings (big end) for a pivot and a single servo for actuation.
The all flying stab (pivot was at 40% of root chord) looked cool but it had terrible low speed performance so we went to a conventional stab/elevator arrangement after the first couple of flights. This change later caused some very strange flight characteristics that Steve Stricker and I eventually solved after many wing location and stab incidence changes hence the very crooked wing shown in the head-on picture.
The C.G. of the airframe is near perfect when about ½ a tank of fuel is left. With a full tank the airplane is nose heavy and with an empty tank it is tail heavy. Like I said, it was a compromise. For the RS Mig the C.G. is just about right when it is located at the front edge of the R.S. name plate molded into the bottom of the fuselage.
Some Factoids:
Proto 1 Design&Construction - Me, Steve Stricker, Jeff Hickam, Kirk Wicker (from when I made the drawing to first test flight I believe was about 4 days)
Proto 1 Weight – About 6 ½ lbs (almost no wood was used, it was all hot wired 1 lb EPS)
First Flight Test – Me launching, Kirk Wicker flying. (I think it was on the second flight that the nose broke off the first time, we new we had some trouble) The fix for this problem was to put 3 foot long aluminium 1/8"x1/2" beams in the fuselage. During qualification testing the engine mount area kept bending, the Gov. wasn't happy. Bob McDaniels (sadly gone) of McDaniel's RC came up with the solution. We replaced the flat aluminium with L-beams. What fun, we took 8 or 10 of the hand made Migs we had left and cut them in half on a giant bandsaw and glued the new L-beams in place. No more bent noses. The top beam also provided a handy place to drill and tap holes for mounting the wing.
Subsequent Flight Tests – Steve Stricker and “Bic†Green with me launching and repairing/modifying. Originally when we went to the fixed stab/elevator the airplane went from flying great to practically unflyable. At any speed, when put into a dive the airplane would tuck or diverge into an ever increasing death dive. Uncorrected it would crash itself in a matter of seconds. We eventually fixed the problem by adding about 4 degrees of negative (TE up) incidence in the stab.
No. Article 1’s Built – I think it was 15, these were the hand made examples that we took to contract qualification at the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville AL. Steve Stricker an I flew hundreds of flights over a 30 day period during the summer of 1983. The most difficult of which was carrying a 5 lb payload. The same airframe had to be launched and recovered without repair 20 times. They made us land on a very rough gravel road. The average temp was always over 90 and most days the humidity was near 100%. The Redstone Arsenal is the location of the early space program and is basiclly built on a swamp. The first thing they said to us when we started test flying there was "don't wander into the woods" because 3 of the 4 most poisonous snakes in North America inhabit the area.
Wood Patterns for Molding – Ed Mitchell R.I.P., One of the most skilled modelers I’ve ever known carved the solid Mahogany plugs for the mold. I laminated the blanks and did the rough carving of the wing. Ed did all the really hard parts (fuselage with all the coarouts being the hardest). Ed was a middle school shop teacher. During his summer break he spent 6 weeks carving the plugs. (Anybody know where these are? A true work of art.)
Army Cost – A box of 3 airframes, 1- engine, hardware, glue, receiver with 3 servos was about $600.00 dollars. What a bargain!
Overall Contract Cost – Approx. $6M. We were making about $6/hr at the time. What can I say we were young and stupid.
Total # Made – Approx 45k for the Army contract, another 5K to the Navy/Marines and 5K for the commercial hobby market.
Molded By – Tuscarora Plastics, Herndon VA.- Was the biggest most complex EPS mold they had made up to that time. When we first approached them the response was, “you want to do what!â€. The use of multiple colored EPS beads, insertion of aluminum spars, plastics ailerons and Mylar hinges was way beyond anything they had ever done before.
Mold Cook Time – Took about 3 ½-4 minutes to fuse the EPS beads together. When they came out of the mold the airframes weighed about 10 lbs which included 4 lbs of water.
Most Number of Flights – has to go to Art Pesch – he flew for RS and Goldberg.
Heaviest Ever Flown - ??? AAI Corp. Ron Stahl, Myer Gutman, Steve Stricker – was used as a intermediate trainer for the Navy/Pioneer UAV program. We use to put about a gallon of fuel in tanks under the wing. Average weight had to be over 20 lbs with trike landing gear and extra radio equipment.
Most Flights on Single Airframe - ??? Got to be in the thousands someplace.
Longest Flight – My personal best is a little over an hour on 16 oz of fuel.
Coolest Mig Ever – Goes to Robert Hayes and Richard Peters (Both RS employees in the late 80’s) – it was two Migs joined together like a F-82. Powered by twin SuperTiger 1.4? cu.in. two-stroke. It was “AWSOMEâ€.
Altitude Record – has to be Migs flown at 29 Palms CA, 5000 ft ASL.
Shortest Flight – To many to count. A good gunner on a towed Vulcan can vaporize one of these in seconds.
Most Bullet Holes Ever – One Mig that came back from a shoot at Camp LeJeune NC, I counted 32 separate hits. We took wooden dowels and stuck them through the holes. Alas the photos have vanished. Mostly 5.62mm M-16 rounds, but there were some .50 cal hits too. It was still flyable.[/size]
I’ve noticed some new posts on some of the threads discussing the FQM117-B or Mig-27 target drones lately. Apparently there are some of the original RS Systems and more recently the Carl Goldberg Models targets available for sale on Ebay as well as other places. In the interest of preserving some of the history of these unique model airplanes (at least four of the major players are now gone) I present this account of the development and production of the first of what the Army designated as FQM-117-B or the RS Mig. What follows is a short history of the first RS MIG-27 airplane No.1 (pictures attached) of which there was only 1 prototype built and over a period of a few days in the Spring of 1983 evolved into what became the FQM-117-B of which RS produced approximately 45K copies between 1983 and 1986.
In the early 80’s RS Systems was the main provider of small expendable aerial targets used for air defense training to the U.S. Army and Marine Corps. The target of choice was a .61 powered flying wing ironically designated as the FQM-117-A (Stealth Fighter) do a Google for more details. The Army was interested in procuring a new target that was more realistic, hence the FQM-117-B was born.
Like anything built to an Army spec everything is a compromise. The basic contract requirements were; had to be 1/9th scale, had to be assembled in the field in 10 minutes or less, hand launched and had to be able to carry a 5 pound payload. Of course there were many other specifications for the radio and field support equipment but that’s another story.
The first and only prototype was built (by myself, Jeff Hickam and Kirk Wicker) nearly to scale with the biggest change being about a 40% increase in wing area (try hand launching an 8 lb .61 powered model with an extra 5 lb dead weight on it sometime). Much later in the program we did some testing to see exactly how much extra weight the airplane could carry and still be hand launch; if memory serves me it was an all up weight of about 18 lbs, what fun! Airplane no.1 also had a flying stab which used a couple of K&B .61 crank bearings (big end) for a pivot and a single servo for actuation.
The all flying stab (pivot was at 40% of root chord) looked cool but it had terrible low speed performance so we went to a conventional stab/elevator arrangement after the first couple of flights. This change later caused some very strange flight characteristics that Steve Stricker and I eventually solved after many wing location and stab incidence changes hence the very crooked wing shown in the head-on picture.
The C.G. of the airframe is near perfect when about ½ a tank of fuel is left. With a full tank the airplane is nose heavy and with an empty tank it is tail heavy. Like I said, it was a compromise. For the RS Mig the C.G. is just about right when it is located at the front edge of the R.S. name plate molded into the bottom of the fuselage.
Some Factoids:
Proto 1 Design&Construction - Me, Steve Stricker, Jeff Hickam, Kirk Wicker (from when I made the drawing to first test flight I believe was about 4 days)
Proto 1 Weight – About 6 ½ lbs (almost no wood was used, it was all hot wired 1 lb EPS)
First Flight Test – Me launching, Kirk Wicker flying. (I think it was on the second flight that the nose broke off the first time, we new we had some trouble) The fix for this problem was to put 3 foot long aluminium 1/8"x1/2" beams in the fuselage. During qualification testing the engine mount area kept bending, the Gov. wasn't happy. Bob McDaniels (sadly gone) of McDaniel's RC came up with the solution. We replaced the flat aluminium with L-beams. What fun, we took 8 or 10 of the hand made Migs we had left and cut them in half on a giant bandsaw and glued the new L-beams in place. No more bent noses. The top beam also provided a handy place to drill and tap holes for mounting the wing.
Subsequent Flight Tests – Steve Stricker and “Bic†Green with me launching and repairing/modifying. Originally when we went to the fixed stab/elevator the airplane went from flying great to practically unflyable. At any speed, when put into a dive the airplane would tuck or diverge into an ever increasing death dive. Uncorrected it would crash itself in a matter of seconds. We eventually fixed the problem by adding about 4 degrees of negative (TE up) incidence in the stab.
No. Article 1’s Built – I think it was 15, these were the hand made examples that we took to contract qualification at the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville AL. Steve Stricker an I flew hundreds of flights over a 30 day period during the summer of 1983. The most difficult of which was carrying a 5 lb payload. The same airframe had to be launched and recovered without repair 20 times. They made us land on a very rough gravel road. The average temp was always over 90 and most days the humidity was near 100%. The Redstone Arsenal is the location of the early space program and is basiclly built on a swamp. The first thing they said to us when we started test flying there was "don't wander into the woods" because 3 of the 4 most poisonous snakes in North America inhabit the area.
Wood Patterns for Molding – Ed Mitchell R.I.P., One of the most skilled modelers I’ve ever known carved the solid Mahogany plugs for the mold. I laminated the blanks and did the rough carving of the wing. Ed did all the really hard parts (fuselage with all the coarouts being the hardest). Ed was a middle school shop teacher. During his summer break he spent 6 weeks carving the plugs. (Anybody know where these are? A true work of art.)
Army Cost – A box of 3 airframes, 1- engine, hardware, glue, receiver with 3 servos was about $600.00 dollars. What a bargain!
Overall Contract Cost – Approx. $6M. We were making about $6/hr at the time. What can I say we were young and stupid.
Total # Made – Approx 45k for the Army contract, another 5K to the Navy/Marines and 5K for the commercial hobby market.
Molded By – Tuscarora Plastics, Herndon VA.- Was the biggest most complex EPS mold they had made up to that time. When we first approached them the response was, “you want to do what!â€. The use of multiple colored EPS beads, insertion of aluminum spars, plastics ailerons and Mylar hinges was way beyond anything they had ever done before.
Mold Cook Time – Took about 3 ½-4 minutes to fuse the EPS beads together. When they came out of the mold the airframes weighed about 10 lbs which included 4 lbs of water.
Most Number of Flights – has to go to Art Pesch – he flew for RS and Goldberg.
Heaviest Ever Flown - ??? AAI Corp. Ron Stahl, Myer Gutman, Steve Stricker – was used as a intermediate trainer for the Navy/Pioneer UAV program. We use to put about a gallon of fuel in tanks under the wing. Average weight had to be over 20 lbs with trike landing gear and extra radio equipment.
Most Flights on Single Airframe - ??? Got to be in the thousands someplace.
Longest Flight – My personal best is a little over an hour on 16 oz of fuel.
Coolest Mig Ever – Goes to Robert Hayes and Richard Peters (Both RS employees in the late 80’s) – it was two Migs joined together like a F-82. Powered by twin SuperTiger 1.4? cu.in. two-stroke. It was “AWSOMEâ€.
Altitude Record – has to be Migs flown at 29 Palms CA, 5000 ft ASL.
Shortest Flight – To many to count. A good gunner on a towed Vulcan can vaporize one of these in seconds.
Most Bullet Holes Ever – One Mig that came back from a shoot at Camp LeJeune NC, I counted 32 separate hits. We took wooden dowels and stuck them through the holes. Alas the photos have vanished. Mostly 5.62mm M-16 rounds, but there were some .50 cal hits too. It was still flyable.[/size]
04-15-2007, 07:10 AM
#189
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
Well, after however many months, I took some photos of my Mig in current condition.
The wing is fiberglassed, the spanwise strips are carbon fiber reinforcement. It's bulletproof.
You can see the all-flying stabs set up. Still has elevator, rudder and throttle servos.
You can see the red on the fuse is fading a little. Black baron foam safe paint will fix.
I'd be willing to let it go, but not gonna ship. Daytona Beach area. Let me know if you are interested
The wing is fiberglassed, the spanwise strips are carbon fiber reinforcement. It's bulletproof.
You can see the all-flying stabs set up. Still has elevator, rudder and throttle servos.
You can see the red on the fuse is fading a little. Black baron foam safe paint will fix.
I'd be willing to let it go, but not gonna ship. Daytona Beach area. Let me know if you are interested
05-04-2007, 09:30 AM
#190
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
Wow I just read this 8 page thread and there is a lot of info here for the mig,, I was captivated on the construction of the Tenacious build, what a story leading up to the destruction, man I was expecting almost to see a video of the bird in action at the finale, but instead a crumpled foam remain, I have to say i was very surprised,, and all the pics that are listed were a great help, hopefully you will get her back in the air,, as you said though, its a fun project regardless of the end result, I too hold that attitude, for you have to in this hobby or you'll be pissed off all the time.
I shouild have mine done somtime soon now that all my other projects are caught up and flying...
Thanks again all
I shouild have mine done somtime soon now that all my other projects are caught up and flying...
Thanks again all
05-04-2007, 02:34 PM
#191
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
These are pictures of a target drone I converted to ducted fan a couple of years ago. It's powered with an OS 91 and Dynamax fan. It has retracts as well. It's still flying strong.
There's also a 7 second video on rcu videos. Just type target drone in the video search window.
There's also a 7 second video on rcu videos. Just type target drone in the video search window.
05-04-2007, 02:57 PM
#193
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
I am glad to see al the activity on the thread. I have really enjoyed reading all the posts, very interesting. I still have my Mig and would consider putting a nose on it and trying it again after I finish a few other projects. Anyone building one of these, please post pictures as you go, it would be a big help to the resty of us.
Good luck with all the projects and keep the Mig posts coming.
Denny
Good luck with all the projects and keep the Mig posts coming.
Denny
06-22-2007, 11:27 PM
#194
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
Just got one of these the other day. Complete airframe in good condition, a few props and 3 brand new in the bag engines for 40 bucks!! Can anyone actually clarify what engine actually comes with these? I have the CG version and it come with a K&B engine with nothing stamped on it. Is it a 65 or a 90? Anyone?? Is it enough power for this bad boy or not? Thanks.
06-23-2007, 06:44 AM
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
Meps
Beautiful job and nice video
Could you share some photo's of the inside of your ducted fan su 27. I have 2 of these and would like convert one to ducted fan.
Regards
Bill
Beautiful job and nice video
Could you share some photo's of the inside of your ducted fan su 27. I have 2 of these and would like convert one to ducted fan.
Regards
Bill
06-24-2007, 01:01 PM
#198
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
Thanks for the compliments. I'll try and get pictures of the inside. I would love to get video of a complete flight. You would not believe the performance over the prop powered counterpart. I would estimate the speed around 110 mph during the summer months and maybe 120 - 130 during the winter months. The fuse is glassed with 6 oz. cloth. The stabs and center section of the wings are glassed with 4 oz. cloth. The rest of the wing is glassed with 3/4 oz. cloth. There are 3 1/4" ply spars various lengths in the wing. I trimmed 1/4" off of the horizontal (including the exhaust) and vertical stab trailing edges and replaced it with 1/4" balsa for strength. If interested, I will post more of what I did as time allows me.
06-24-2007, 04:42 PM
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
Yes Photo's pls when time permits. Your plane is the best drone i have ever seen. Hope you get to make a longer movie of it sometimes
Regards
Bill
Regards
Bill
06-27-2007, 10:02 PM
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RE: Propjet, mig 27 target drone
Attached below are some photos of Floggers that a friend and I have. We bought these on e-Bay several years back and they both were shipped in one custom made cardboard box. It took almost all the interior of a full size Ford van to get them home!
Since one of them was a bit rough, we decided it could be modified to look somewhat like an F-111. So some sanding and cutting started. Maybe you can see where it was heading from the photos. However I stopped on the project and seeing this thread has me thinking again. Maybe I can start back. If so, I will add more here.
The white finished one at a long ago mall show is the first one my friend had back in the late 1980’s. He covered it in while Econokote and at one time had retracts in it. He also installed lights in it and both of us flew it at 2 AM one morning to entertain the guys guarding our club contest gear during a pattern meet. They really enjoyed us waking them up. But hey, they were guards right?
It was amazing how much faster it seemed to fly at night! Those wing tip lights were really moving. Rolls were also interesting. The Fox Eagle .61 was a lot louder at night as well. But we made several flights that night and other nights as well with no problems (crashes). He also flew this one with a K&B .61 for a long time as well.
Since one of them was a bit rough, we decided it could be modified to look somewhat like an F-111. So some sanding and cutting started. Maybe you can see where it was heading from the photos. However I stopped on the project and seeing this thread has me thinking again. Maybe I can start back. If so, I will add more here.
The white finished one at a long ago mall show is the first one my friend had back in the late 1980’s. He covered it in while Econokote and at one time had retracts in it. He also installed lights in it and both of us flew it at 2 AM one morning to entertain the guys guarding our club contest gear during a pattern meet. They really enjoyed us waking them up. But hey, they were guards right?
It was amazing how much faster it seemed to fly at night! Those wing tip lights were really moving. Rolls were also interesting. The Fox Eagle .61 was a lot louder at night as well. But we made several flights that night and other nights as well with no problems (crashes). He also flew this one with a K&B .61 for a long time as well.