BVM EDF
03-03-2006, 10:38 PM
#26
RE: BVM EDF
Now that I think about it the engine mount/faring may not have to be changed if BVM offers an adapter to mount the electric motor to it.....The most expensive part of a BVM fan unit is the cast aluminum mount....Why ramp up new tooling when the existing fan unit could be made to work..............
Kevin
Kevin
03-03-2006, 10:49 PM
#27
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: Kevin Greene
Now that I think about it the engine mount/faring may not have to be changed if BVM offers an adapter to mount the electric motor to it.....The most expensive part of a BVM fan unit is the cast aluminum mount....Why ramp up new tooling when the existing fan unit could be made to work..............
Kevin
Now that I think about it the engine mount/faring may not have to be changed if BVM offers an adapter to mount the electric motor to it.....The most expensive part of a BVM fan unit is the cast aluminum mount....Why ramp up new tooling when the existing fan unit could be made to work..............
Kevin
One of the keys to BV's df success is he looked around and decided that he needed a clean sheet of paper to wrap the best sized airframe around his own engine and fan in order to get the best performance. And it showed.
If he is just packaging together somebody else's components to make an EDF conversion kit, well, that's been done before. If he has something really new, I'm all ears!
But I am only speculating, I have no idea whatsoever what is under the hood of his Electric Viper. Which is the second electric viper I have seen. Another guy already did the Sabre, and is doing the F-80.
03-03-2006, 10:57 PM
#28
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RE: BVM EDF
I have to agree with Easytiger. I just went all electric on my 50 size and 90 size helicopters and they out perform my glow heli's! I also fly 90" electric airplanes and they all fly as good or better then glow. I think electric jets are the next thing. I noticed Tam is coming out with an A10 electric that can also go with P-60's. I would never give up my turbines, but I would add a 3000.00 electric jet to my stable if it could perform like a turbine.
03-03-2006, 11:01 PM
#29
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RE: BVM EDF
Yup. I had my eyes opened recently. And I'm a real hardcore engine nut, I have .006 Valentine diesels and such. But I have seen the future, and it's electric. Electric just has certain advantages in certain ways. Turbines, at present, certainly have other, different advantages. I'll take them both, thank you!
03-03-2006, 11:06 PM
#30
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RE: BVM EDF
Oh, because that expensive cast piece weighs about a half ton! Gotta go, it can be replaced with something much much lighter duty, there is no vibration.
03-03-2006, 11:10 PM
#31
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: Chris True
Oh, because that expensive cast piece weighs about a half ton! Gotta go, it can be replaced with something much much lighter duty, there is no vibration.
Oh, because that expensive cast piece weighs about a half ton! Gotta go, it can be replaced with something much much lighter duty, there is no vibration.
03-03-2006, 11:15 PM
#32
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RE: BVM EDF
ET! A mold is a cavity into which you apply the desired amount of glass, it ISN'T a GDF Viper fuse off the rack from what the attendees tell me. It is lighter. The wing is different - 6 or 8 inches more span for some extra area and laser cut wood vs. foam core / balsa / carbon spar or injection foam / Obeechi etc. From what I hear it is right, IE - not stressed for 200 mph...
03-03-2006, 11:18 PM
#33
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RE: BVM EDF
Now, maybe the fan WAS just quickly converted to get it in the air and that's why the inlet covers in the pits
. Heck, my first effort at converting the glow Viper left the epoxy painted exit ducting in situ - if it didn't work I had a Viojet for it
. Heck, my first effort at converting the glow Viper left the epoxy painted exit ducting in situ - if it didn't work I had a Viojet for it
03-03-2006, 11:28 PM
#34
RE: BVM EDF
Come on guys! As much as I love turbines (mine specially) there are two points to consider here:
1) BVM is the best of the best any they are showing serious interest on the topic of EDF
2) If there isn't a market for it (where competition would try to beat him at), then why is it Bob keeps the jet intakes and exhaust always plugged??HUMM! he could be hidding a secret atomic powerplant!!! no, he just knows others are working on it too...
You are giving EDF's the "JetJoe" treatment and JetJoes ARE turbines!!!!!
I did see it fly today at FL Jets, a lot better than most Boomerangs on the event
1) BVM is the best of the best any they are showing serious interest on the topic of EDF
2) If there isn't a market for it (where competition would try to beat him at), then why is it Bob keeps the jet intakes and exhaust always plugged??HUMM! he could be hidding a secret atomic powerplant!!! no, he just knows others are working on it too...
You are giving EDF's the "JetJoe" treatment and JetJoes ARE turbines!!!!!
I did see it fly today at FL Jets, a lot better than most Boomerangs on the event
03-03-2006, 11:33 PM
#36
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: Chris True
ET! A mold is a cavity into which you apply the desired amount of glass, it ISN'T a GDF Viper fuse off the rack from what the attendees tell me. It is lighter. The wing is different - 6 or 8 inches more span for some extra area and laser cut wood vs. foam core / balsa / carbon spar or injection foam / Obeechi etc. From what I hear it is right, IE - not stressed for 200 mph...
ET! A mold is a cavity into which you apply the desired amount of glass, it ISN'T a GDF Viper fuse off the rack from what the attendees tell me. It is lighter. The wing is different - 6 or 8 inches more span for some extra area and laser cut wood vs. foam core / balsa / carbon spar or injection foam / Obeechi etc. From what I hear it is right, IE - not stressed for 200 mph...
Given a clean sheet of paper, you will get the next level of performance. That's the BVM way. Why he makes his own ICDF engines, his own retracts, even his own filler valve!
03-04-2006, 12:06 AM
#38
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RE: BVM EDF
Well, the volume required for the fuel vs. the volume required to house the battery is remarkably similar. They are shaped a bit differently and the battery doesn't get lighter as the flight goes on so you can put it anywhere you want. If I had absolute free choice as to how a big EDF was designed I'd change only a couple of things. The outside shape I'd leave the same, I'd change the internals a bit. Instead of curving the ducting inwards immediately to make room for fuel tanks between the duct and the side at the CG I'd run the ducts straight back along the fuse sides for a foot or so before gently curving inwards to meet the fan mounted towards the rear of the wing. Then the space between the ducts opens up for easy battery access. That space the cylynder head occupied is used for wires and the ESC on one of my setups. There just isn't a lot of empty space inside once you install all the equipment.
Hard to say what's in it since I haven't seen it fly, just heard second hand reports. I've flown two different setups in mine that worked very well, one was appr. 2,600-2,700 watts with a flying weight of 11.5 and one was 2,200-2,300 watts with a flying weigh of 12.25. The 2,200-2,300 watt setup goes a little faster in level flight - it equals the speed in the fastest diving pass in that video but flying basically level ovals. So the fan is better because it is performing a bit better on less power at a heavier weight. Physics is physics, you can't get more than 100% efficiency so if the BVM plane weighs 10 pounds and it isn't doing more than 130 mph it could be as little as 1,800 or 1,900 watts. The motor and battery combo is key in EDF. if they haven't been tinkering for quite a while there is probably room for additional performance but it's all a trade off in power vs. weight vs. duration vs. landing speed and glide angle.
Hard to say what's in it since I haven't seen it fly, just heard second hand reports. I've flown two different setups in mine that worked very well, one was appr. 2,600-2,700 watts with a flying weight of 11.5 and one was 2,200-2,300 watts with a flying weigh of 12.25. The 2,200-2,300 watt setup goes a little faster in level flight - it equals the speed in the fastest diving pass in that video but flying basically level ovals. So the fan is better because it is performing a bit better on less power at a heavier weight. Physics is physics, you can't get more than 100% efficiency so if the BVM plane weighs 10 pounds and it isn't doing more than 130 mph it could be as little as 1,800 or 1,900 watts. The motor and battery combo is key in EDF. if they haven't been tinkering for quite a while there is probably room for additional performance but it's all a trade off in power vs. weight vs. duration vs. landing speed and glide angle.
03-04-2006, 02:05 AM
#39
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RE: BVM EDF
I have been working with and flying a modified viojett rotor for a couple of years now. It really hasn't cost that much and it has been great fun. It's exciting that BVM will be producing electric stuff. Quite frankly BVM priced me right out of the market. I can't shop there any more! [
] Plus I have a hard time putting a $10,000 jet in the air with a radio I fly my park flier with (JR10X). It's all hanging on the same frequency! I had to go back to scratch building and that is where all the fun began. It is a hobby again, new, and a lot like it was 15 years ago. Don't nock the electric stuff until you have tried it. Electric's will be HUGE. Club membership is down cause' of the elecric arf/park flier stuff.
I'm building my 3rd Ribbie Electric Mig-15, With permission from him, he was the inspiration for me back in 92' or so when I first saw the plane fly. I am using the same set up only GP3300 for power. And my rotor is clipped to 4 in. It's not new!!
BVM 60" Sabre for size comparison.
] Plus I have a hard time putting a $10,000 jet in the air with a radio I fly my park flier with (JR10X). It's all hanging on the same frequency! I had to go back to scratch building and that is where all the fun began. It is a hobby again, new, and a lot like it was 15 years ago. Don't nock the electric stuff until you have tried it. Electric's will be HUGE. Club membership is down cause' of the elecric arf/park flier stuff.I'm building my 3rd Ribbie Electric Mig-15, With permission from him, he was the inspiration for me back in 92' or so when I first saw the plane fly. I am using the same set up only GP3300 for power. And my rotor is clipped to 4 in. It's not new!!
BVM 60" Sabre for size comparison.
03-04-2006, 07:29 AM
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RE: BVM EDF
There is a huge market for it. Electrics solves many of the problems that ICDFs were saddled with. Move the throttle stick and go! It doesn't get any more reliable than that. Electics have come a loooooong way. And Chris, your Viper conversion was interesting reading!
03-04-2006, 08:58 AM
#42
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RE: BVM EDF
There will be a huge market for it and I will add one to my hanger ASAP! I have stopped flying IC powered regular planes 2 years ago other than my turbines everything is brushless electric / lipos. BVM will do it right so sign me up for at least one EVF F-86.
03-04-2006, 09:03 AM
#43
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RE: BVM EDF
Of course there is a HUGE market for EDF and who better to ride the next big wave than BVM .Technology in the RC jet world is advancing so rapidly with every passing day,it's amazing! It is breathtaking just how far EDF has come,seems just like yesterday that we all struggled to keep an electric jets airborne and with enough power! Then the run times were so short that you really couldnt enjoy the flights at all.Now we are seeing some electric jets hit in excess of 120 mph and stay up 20 mins or longer.It is truly amazing how advanced things have gotten with EDF and in relatively short period of time too.I had a buddy here that had a HET Super Sniper(mini Bandit lookalike) and that friggen thing was amazing-every bit of 70-80 mph at 1/2 throttle!! There however was a downfall to that jet-it didnt like to get airborne very easily via bungee launch.You had to have the AOA perfect or you were kissing the dirt and if it did so you always had fiberglass/airframe damage.I had one of those but sold it after seeing how tempermental his was.But the bottomline is that jet was awesome and was an extreme machine in flight.I have been looking for just the right EDF jet and combo and this BVM one may be the answer I have been looking for.
Another point to hit on is that the market for EDF is gonna become even more popular /larger cause many guys want to get into jets but have 2 factors against them 1) dont have the funds to buy a turbine jet and/or 2) their flying site may have strict rules that wont allow DF or turbine jets there cause of the noise levels , have some of the old farts that want to be really difficult or ultimately simply dont have the right surface to fly from or the runway isnt long enough.We are fortunant here to have a very big flying facility to fly on-Fentress NALF.We not only have 8,000 feet of runway & airspace but we also have a huge nicely tailored grass field for EDF operations
Steve
Another point to hit on is that the market for EDF is gonna become even more popular /larger cause many guys want to get into jets but have 2 factors against them 1) dont have the funds to buy a turbine jet and/or 2) their flying site may have strict rules that wont allow DF or turbine jets there cause of the noise levels , have some of the old farts that want to be really difficult or ultimately simply dont have the right surface to fly from or the runway isnt long enough.We are fortunant here to have a very big flying facility to fly on-Fentress NALF.We not only have 8,000 feet of runway & airspace but we also have a huge nicely tailored grass field for EDF operations
Steve
03-04-2006, 09:58 AM
#44
RE: BVM EDF
The best thing about large EDF, in my opinion, is that it will finally get some of the would be serious jet guys out of the foamie parks and back into the clubs where they will fly larger EDF's and possibly turbines, too. More support will be in the "grass roots" for serious jet modelling as a whole. This hobby will die without new blood, and turbines will only be flown by egalitarian farts who wonder why they are getting picked on by everyone if nobody is there to join in the fun. Plus, the more who join in the fun, the lower the prices are (from competition and innovation - this has been demonstrated conclusively with electrics). Who wants to pay 1000 bucks more just becasue it's a "jet"? Competition = invention and growth. We all benefit. Sure, some will not like the increased volume that will flood a once niche community, but better to control the flood waters and make a powerplant with it that drown in it. My .02
03-04-2006, 10:09 AM
#45
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RE: BVM EDF
Hi,
I'm curious about the cost. I've read it's an alternitive for those who can't afford turbines. EDF can't be cheap. I read on one of the forums that it costs around $500 to get a Hobby Lobby Mig in the air, and that's a foamie. I'm sure the motors are expensive, high power, precision motors don't come cheap. Then there a ESC that has to be able to handle a high amp draw, several high capacity batteries, charger, etc.
Anyone have a WAG what it would cost to get a Bandit type model in the air?
BRG,
Jon
I'm curious about the cost. I've read it's an alternitive for those who can't afford turbines. EDF can't be cheap. I read on one of the forums that it costs around $500 to get a Hobby Lobby Mig in the air, and that's a foamie. I'm sure the motors are expensive, high power, precision motors don't come cheap. Then there a ESC that has to be able to handle a high amp draw, several high capacity batteries, charger, etc.
Anyone have a WAG what it would cost to get a Bandit type model in the air?
BRG,
Jon
03-04-2006, 10:17 AM
#46
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: F106A
Hi,
I'm curious about the cost. I've read it's an alternitive for those who can't afford turbines. EDF can't be cheap. I read on one of the forums that it costs around $500 to get a Hobby Lobby Mig in the air, and that's a foamie. I'm sure the motors are expensive, high power, precision motors don't come cheap. Then there a ESC that has to be able to handle a high amp draw, several high capacity batteries, charger, etc.
Anyone have a WAG what it would cost to get a Bandit type model in the air?
BRG,
Jon
Hi,
I'm curious about the cost. I've read it's an alternitive for those who can't afford turbines. EDF can't be cheap. I read on one of the forums that it costs around $500 to get a Hobby Lobby Mig in the air, and that's a foamie. I'm sure the motors are expensive, high power, precision motors don't come cheap. Then there a ESC that has to be able to handle a high amp draw, several high capacity batteries, charger, etc.
Anyone have a WAG what it would cost to get a Bandit type model in the air?
BRG,
Jon
03-04-2006, 10:21 AM
#47
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: Steve S
Of course there is a HUGE market for EDF and who better to ride the next big wave than BVM .Technology in the RC jet world is advancing so rapidly with every passing day,it's amazing! It is breathtaking just how far EDF has come,seems just like yesterday that we all struggled to keep an electric jets airborne and with enough power! Then the run times were so short that you really couldnt enjoy the flights at all.Now we are seeing some electric jets hit in excess of 120 mph and stay up 20 mins or longer.It is truly amazing how advanced things have gotten with EDF and in relatively short period of time too.I had a buddy here that had a HET Super Sniper(mini Bandit lookalike) and that friggen thing was amazing-every bit of 70-80 mph at 1/2 throttle!! There however was a downfall to that jet-it didnt like to get airborne very easily via bungee launch.You had to have the AOA perfect or you were kissing the dirt and if it did so you always had fiberglass/airframe damage.I had one of those but sold it after seeing how tempermental his was.But the bottomline is that jet was awesome and was an extreme machine in flight.I have been looking for just the right EDF jet and combo and this BVM one may be the answer I have been looking for.
Another point to hit on is that the market for EDF is gonna become even more popular /larger cause many guys want to get into jets but have 2 factors against them 1) dont have the funds to buy a turbine jet and/or 2) their flying site may have strict rules that wont allow DF or turbine jets there cause of the noise levels , have some of the old farts that want to be really difficult or ultimately simply dont have the right surface to fly from or the runway isnt long enough.We are fortunant here to have a very big flying facility to fly on-Fentress NALF.We not only have 8,000 feet of runway & airspace but we also have a huge nicely tailored grass field for EDF operations
Steve
Of course there is a HUGE market for EDF and who better to ride the next big wave than BVM .Technology in the RC jet world is advancing so rapidly with every passing day,it's amazing! It is breathtaking just how far EDF has come,seems just like yesterday that we all struggled to keep an electric jets airborne and with enough power! Then the run times were so short that you really couldnt enjoy the flights at all.Now we are seeing some electric jets hit in excess of 120 mph and stay up 20 mins or longer.It is truly amazing how advanced things have gotten with EDF and in relatively short period of time too.I had a buddy here that had a HET Super Sniper(mini Bandit lookalike) and that friggen thing was amazing-every bit of 70-80 mph at 1/2 throttle!! There however was a downfall to that jet-it didnt like to get airborne very easily via bungee launch.You had to have the AOA perfect or you were kissing the dirt and if it did so you always had fiberglass/airframe damage.I had one of those but sold it after seeing how tempermental his was.But the bottomline is that jet was awesome and was an extreme machine in flight.I have been looking for just the right EDF jet and combo and this BVM one may be the answer I have been looking for.
Another point to hit on is that the market for EDF is gonna become even more popular /larger cause many guys want to get into jets but have 2 factors against them 1) dont have the funds to buy a turbine jet and/or 2) their flying site may have strict rules that wont allow DF or turbine jets there cause of the noise levels , have some of the old farts that want to be really difficult or ultimately simply dont have the right surface to fly from or the runway isnt long enough.We are fortunant here to have a very big flying facility to fly on-Fentress NALF.We not only have 8,000 feet of runway & airspace but we also have a huge nicely tailored grass field for EDF operations
Steve
Many of the EDF models out there right now that were designed for bungee only can be adapted for retracts with no weight penalty, as they were originally designed for nicads or NIMH and the lipos are much lighter.
03-04-2006, 10:23 AM
#48
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My Feedback: (119)
RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: vargas
I have been working with and flying a modified viojett rotor for a couple of years now. It really hasn't cost that much and it has been great fun. It's exciting that BVM will be producing electric stuff. Quite frankly BVM priced me right out of the market. I can't shop there any more! [] Plus I have a hard time putting a $10,000 jet in the air with a radio I fly my park flier with (JR10X). It's all hanging on the same frequency! I had to go back to scratch building and that is where all the fun began. It is a hobby again, new, and a lot like it was 15 years ago. Don't nock the electric stuff until you have tried it. Electric's will be HUGE. Club membership is down cause' of the elecric arf/park flier stuff.
I'm building my 3rd Ribbie Electric Mig-15, With permission from him, he was the inspiration for me back in 92' or so when I first saw the plane fly. I am using the same set up only GP3300 for power. And my rotor is clipped to 4 in. It's not new!!
BVM 60" Sabre for size comparison.
I have been working with and flying a modified viojett rotor for a couple of years now. It really hasn't cost that much and it has been great fun. It's exciting that BVM will be producing electric stuff. Quite frankly BVM priced me right out of the market. I can't shop there any more! [
] Plus I have a hard time putting a $10,000 jet in the air with a radio I fly my park flier with (JR10X). It's all hanging on the same frequency! I had to go back to scratch building and that is where all the fun began. It is a hobby again, new, and a lot like it was 15 years ago. Don't nock the electric stuff until you have tried it. Electric's will be HUGE. Club membership is down cause' of the elecric arf/park flier stuff.I'm building my 3rd Ribbie Electric Mig-15, With permission from him, he was the inspiration for me back in 92' or so when I first saw the plane fly. I am using the same set up only GP3300 for power. And my rotor is clipped to 4 in. It's not new!!
BVM 60" Sabre for size comparison.
03-04-2006, 10:44 AM
#50
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RE: BVM EDF
You know what's so funny? Guys like Chris True and others have been flying this stuff for quite a while now. All three of these "new" BVM conversions have already been done by others, and what they used, how they did it, all has been posted quite extensively on the web for all to see. Nobody paid much attention.
But the minute BOB does it, then everybody is listening!
The "cover the intakes so nobody can see what I am flying" is so cheesy. The info is all out there, if he had anything special under the hood, he would show it. I think it will be an "Aeropoxy Solution": somebody else's motor and battery anodized purple. Otherwise, what's the big secret?
But the minute BOB does it, then everybody is listening!
The "cover the intakes so nobody can see what I am flying" is so cheesy. The info is all out there, if he had anything special under the hood, he would show it. I think it will be an "Aeropoxy Solution": somebody else's motor and battery anodized purple. Otherwise, what's the big secret?