EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
04-05-2006, 10:26 AM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Robert Wagoner
The detail I was given is that years ago JHH and AMD teamed up and made both a Hawk and Fan - they parted ways and AMD has been selling Hawks and fans every since. As for ICDF use on durability I don't know. It's possible that the fuel could effect the material. I test run the fans to 28K for balance. This fan unit is as tough as any other I've seen of this design. As for rotor design that's Scozzi's which is also similar to BVM's - most other fan makers use Kress modified for EDF - Schübeler, WeMoTec and other similar designs are made specificaly for electric motors.
--RW
The detail I was given is that years ago JHH and AMD teamed up and made both a Hawk and Fan - they parted ways and AMD has been selling Hawks and fans every since. As for ICDF use on durability I don't know. It's possible that the fuel could effect the material. I test run the fans to 28K for balance. This fan unit is as tough as any other I've seen of this design. As for rotor design that's Scozzi's which is also similar to BVM's - most other fan makers use Kress modified for EDF - Schübeler, WeMoTec and other similar designs are made specificaly for electric motors.
--RW
Just want to clarify your information here regarding the glass filled turbax fan (copy) you have outfitted with an electric motor. AMD was only contracted to make Hawks and was NEVER contracted to make our fan. They took it upon themselves to make a blatent copy of it (of which we were unaware until just shortly after the split) and in the process made it completely unusable for ICDF (tried to stick an OS in that motor housing?). They also went so far as to splash our engine cover cap too. So, please know that what you have there is not a JHH nor JHH endorsed product but a complete infringment of copyrights (We DO own the design and patent for this fan.) and would appreciate that you present it as such. Thanks!
Chris
04-05-2006, 12:40 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Jet20
Robert,
Just want to clarify your information here regarding the glass filled turbax fan (copy) you have outfitted with an electric motor. AMD was only contracted to make Hawks and was NEVER contracted to make our fan. They took it upon themselves to make a blatent copy of it (of which we were unaware until just shortly after the split) and in the process made it completely unusable for ICDF (tried to stick an OS in that motor housing?). They also went so far as to splash our engine cover cap too. So, please know that what you have there is not a JHH nor JHH endorsed product but a complete infringment of copyrights (We DO own the design and patent for this fan.) and would appreciate that you present it as such. Thanks!
Chris
ORIGINAL: Robert Wagoner
The detail I was given is that years ago JHH and AMD teamed up and made both a Hawk and Fan - they parted ways and AMD has been selling Hawks and fans every since. As for ICDF use on durability I don't know. It's possible that the fuel could effect the material. I test run the fans to 28K for balance. This fan unit is as tough as any other I've seen of this design. As for rotor design that's Scozzi's which is also similar to BVM's - most other fan makers use Kress modified for EDF - Schübeler, WeMoTec and other similar designs are made specificaly for electric motors.
--RW
The detail I was given is that years ago JHH and AMD teamed up and made both a Hawk and Fan - they parted ways and AMD has been selling Hawks and fans every since. As for ICDF use on durability I don't know. It's possible that the fuel could effect the material. I test run the fans to 28K for balance. This fan unit is as tough as any other I've seen of this design. As for rotor design that's Scozzi's which is also similar to BVM's - most other fan makers use Kress modified for EDF - Schübeler, WeMoTec and other similar designs are made specificaly for electric motors.
--RW
Just want to clarify your information here regarding the glass filled turbax fan (copy) you have outfitted with an electric motor. AMD was only contracted to make Hawks and was NEVER contracted to make our fan. They took it upon themselves to make a blatent copy of it (of which we were unaware until just shortly after the split) and in the process made it completely unusable for ICDF (tried to stick an OS in that motor housing?). They also went so far as to splash our engine cover cap too. So, please know that what you have there is not a JHH nor JHH endorsed product but a complete infringment of copyrights (We DO own the design and patent for this fan.) and would appreciate that you present it as such. Thanks!
Chris
I've tried talking to your Dad for the past 6 months and the unanswered e-mail's and non-returned phone calls have made it difficult to get answers on this and other topics. I did receive a fast reply when I asked why JHH copied our EJF retracts down to the same size and color. That was interesting...
The AMD fan has only one metal part that is the adapter and a one piece housing with stators that has a molded in motor mount and side mounting flanges. I can't comment on the ICDF use but your point is well taken. This fan unit is a much different design and construction from the Turbax and as for patents and copyrights that's something between JHH and AMD. if your going to publicly disclose the patent and copyright numbers that would help justify your statements and for everyone to help in your defense. As an example Spring Air had their 20 year Patents expire and not long after similar products started arriving on the market legally.
--RW
04-05-2006, 01:35 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: G.KERR JR.
do you mean that the e-tard god was incorrect again?
do you mean that the e-tard god was incorrect again?
Daren
04-05-2006, 02:51 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
Daren,it seems you are either a wanabee so called in your words tur-banned flyer or you just plain got lost when you were trying to find your electric forum.I can take GK JR because we know he is just pulling chains but you have a pent up "electrical problem".If you and all your electric friends would return to your forum site,you wouldn't have to hear any negative remarks from turbine flyers.
04-05-2006, 03:33 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Robert Wagoner
Chris,
I've tried talking to your Dad for the past 6 months and the unanswered e-mail's and non-returned phone calls have made it difficult to get answers on this and other topics. I did receive a fast reply when I asked why JHH copied our EJF retracts down to the same size and color. That was interesting...
The AMD fan has only one metal part that is the adapter and a one piece housing with stators that has a molded in motor mount and side mounting flanges. I can't comment on the ICDF use but your point is well taken. This fan unit is a much different design and construction from the Turbax and as for patents and copyrights that's something between JHH and AMD. if your going to publicly disclose the patent and copyright numbers that would help justify your statements and for everyone to help in your defense. As an example Spring Air had their 20 year Patents expire and not long after similar products started arriving on the market legally.
--RW
Chris,
I've tried talking to your Dad for the past 6 months and the unanswered e-mail's and non-returned phone calls have made it difficult to get answers on this and other topics. I did receive a fast reply when I asked why JHH copied our EJF retracts down to the same size and color. That was interesting...
The AMD fan has only one metal part that is the adapter and a one piece housing with stators that has a molded in motor mount and side mounting flanges. I can't comment on the ICDF use but your point is well taken. This fan unit is a much different design and construction from the Turbax and as for patents and copyrights that's something between JHH and AMD. if your going to publicly disclose the patent and copyright numbers that would help justify your statements and for everyone to help in your defense. As an example Spring Air had their 20 year Patents expire and not long after similar products started arriving on the market legally.
--RW
I'm not accusing you of anything. And I really don't want to get into the he said she said bs. I'm sure you would agree it's pointless especially in these forums. All I can do is explain the facts I know.
I'm familiar with the fan. The aerodynamic design is identical to the turbax. The shapes of all components are the same except the inside of the motor mount (obviously since it doesn't fit an OS), and the spinner (doens't have the belt starter band).
Now regarding your attempts to get in contact with us I really don't know anything about that. I'm not involved in the day to day JHH business...and deffinitely don't know anything about any emails or calls unless it comes to me personally. So, you'll have to discuss that with my father.
The retracts however, well that's been explained to you. When you preceded to STOP selling the retracts a couple years ago we were approached with the opportunity to sell them. Of which, we jumped at the opportunity. We were given permission to market them as mini jhh gear. And things were fine. That was until such time that the supplier decided he needed to triple OUR cost on the gear (claiming too much time to make them, wants more money to make it worthwhile or not make them) and would not work out a workable price. Who's going to buy a set of $400 mini retracts! That's lunacy! We were forced to make a decision to support our products. Here we had electric jets to offer designed for retracts, but no retracts. And spring air was not an option, as they've been unable to deliver for I don't know how long (that was an issue before we were approached about these gear). You as a manufacturer should be able to understand the position we were forced into. So we found a new supplier for them. I do know that you had asked us about buying them from us at one point which was not too long before you then began the accusations against us. At which time, the same explanation was given. Personally, I thought you had worked this all out with my parents, but apparently not I guess.
I'm sending you a pm, no need to dredge this out here.
Chris
04-05-2006, 04:25 PM
#187
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
Sorry Mr. Kerr, but the more I think about this EDF stuff, the more I find I like it. I will always want to have at least one or two turbine planes, but it would be awesome to have a high performance EDF for the local small field. More videos of the medium size high performance EDF stuff! Its not the roar of a turbine, but I like the Hoover/Oreck sound!!! [8D]
04-05-2006, 04:30 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Jet20
Robert,
I'm not accusing you of anything. And I really don't want to get into the he said she said bs. I'm sure you would agree it's pointless especially in these forums. All I can do is explain the facts I know.
I'm familiar with the fan. The aerodynamic design is identical to the turbax. The shapes of all components are the same except the inside of the motor mount (obviously since it doesn't fit an OS), and the spinner (doens't have the belt starter band).
Now regarding your attempts to get in contact with us I really don't know anything about that. I'm not involved in the day to day JHH business...and deffinitely don't know anything about any emails or calls unless it comes to me personally. So, you'll have to discuss that with my father.
The retracts however, well that's been explained to you. When you preceded to STOP selling the retracts a couple years ago we were approached with the opportunity to sell them. Of which, we jumped at the opportunity. We were given permission to market them as mini jhh gear. And things were fine. That was until such time that the supplier decided he needed to triple OUR cost on the gear (claiming too much time to make them, wants more money to make it worthwhile or not make them) and would not work out a workable price. Who's going to buy a set of $400 mini retracts! That's lunacy! We were forced to make a decision to support our products. Here we had electric jets to offer designed for retracts, but no retracts. And spring air was not an option, as they've been unable to deliver for I don't know how long (that was an issue before we were approached about these gear). You as a manufacturer should be able to understand the position we were forced into. So we found a new supplier for them. I do know that you had asked us about buying them from us at one point which was not too long before you then began the accusations against us. At which time, the same explanation was given. Personally, I thought you had worked this all out with my parents, but apparently not I guess.
I'm sending you a pm, no need to dredge this out here.
Chris
ORIGINAL: Robert Wagoner
Chris,
I've tried talking to your Dad for the past 6 months and the unanswered e-mail's and non-returned phone calls have made it difficult to get answers on this and other topics. I did receive a fast reply when I asked why JHH copied our EJF retracts down to the same size and color. That was interesting...
The AMD fan has only one metal part that is the adapter and a one piece housing with stators that has a molded in motor mount and side mounting flanges. I can't comment on the ICDF use but your point is well taken. This fan unit is a much different design and construction from the Turbax and as for patents and copyrights that's something between JHH and AMD. if your going to publicly disclose the patent and copyright numbers that would help justify your statements and for everyone to help in your defense. As an example Spring Air had their 20 year Patents expire and not long after similar products started arriving on the market legally.
--RW
Chris,
I've tried talking to your Dad for the past 6 months and the unanswered e-mail's and non-returned phone calls have made it difficult to get answers on this and other topics. I did receive a fast reply when I asked why JHH copied our EJF retracts down to the same size and color. That was interesting...
The AMD fan has only one metal part that is the adapter and a one piece housing with stators that has a molded in motor mount and side mounting flanges. I can't comment on the ICDF use but your point is well taken. This fan unit is a much different design and construction from the Turbax and as for patents and copyrights that's something between JHH and AMD. if your going to publicly disclose the patent and copyright numbers that would help justify your statements and for everyone to help in your defense. As an example Spring Air had their 20 year Patents expire and not long after similar products started arriving on the market legally.
--RW
I'm not accusing you of anything. And I really don't want to get into the he said she said bs. I'm sure you would agree it's pointless especially in these forums. All I can do is explain the facts I know.
I'm familiar with the fan. The aerodynamic design is identical to the turbax. The shapes of all components are the same except the inside of the motor mount (obviously since it doesn't fit an OS), and the spinner (doens't have the belt starter band).
Now regarding your attempts to get in contact with us I really don't know anything about that. I'm not involved in the day to day JHH business...and deffinitely don't know anything about any emails or calls unless it comes to me personally. So, you'll have to discuss that with my father.
The retracts however, well that's been explained to you. When you preceded to STOP selling the retracts a couple years ago we were approached with the opportunity to sell them. Of which, we jumped at the opportunity. We were given permission to market them as mini jhh gear. And things were fine. That was until such time that the supplier decided he needed to triple OUR cost on the gear (claiming too much time to make them, wants more money to make it worthwhile or not make them) and would not work out a workable price. Who's going to buy a set of $400 mini retracts! That's lunacy! We were forced to make a decision to support our products. Here we had electric jets to offer designed for retracts, but no retracts. And spring air was not an option, as they've been unable to deliver for I don't know how long (that was an issue before we were approached about these gear). You as a manufacturer should be able to understand the position we were forced into. So we found a new supplier for them. I do know that you had asked us about buying them from us at one point which was not too long before you then began the accusations against us. At which time, the same explanation was given. Personally, I thought you had worked this all out with my parents, but apparently not I guess.
I'm sending you a pm, no need to dredge this out here.
Chris
The Turbax and the AMD fan has the same Aerodynamic design as the Scozzi and that's going on 30+ years. I have a Scozzi fan kit and it's hard to tell the difference between it and the Turbax fan kit. Yes, enough said on this topic.
The retract issue was just a simple business process. Purchase them as any other dealer would from EJF or buy them for much more around us. JHH decided to copy them. Not much else can be said about it, your correct.
I'll read your PM...
--RW
04-05-2006, 10:35 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: GSR
Darren- Why are you so bitter and have so much pent up rage? Did the turbine community do something to you personally? Its only a hobby. Dont let it stress your life. Scott
Darren- Why are you so bitter and have so much pent up rage? Did the turbine community do something to you personally? Its only a hobby. Dont let it stress your life. Scott
No rage at all. If you read my post on the previous page, you'll see we agree perfectly.
Daren
04-05-2006, 10:41 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Jet Lag
Daren,it seems you are either a wanabee so called in your words tur-banned flyer or you just plain got lost when you were trying to find your electric forum.I can take GK JR because we know he is just pulling chains but you have a pent up "electrical problem".If you and all your electric friends would return to your forum site,you wouldn't have to hear any negative remarks from turbine flyers.
Daren,it seems you are either a wanabee so called in your words tur-banned flyer or you just plain got lost when you were trying to find your electric forum.I can take GK JR because we know he is just pulling chains but you have a pent up "electrical problem".If you and all your electric friends would return to your forum site,you wouldn't have to hear any negative remarks from turbine flyers.
Daren
04-05-2006, 11:11 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Woketman
Sorry Mr. Kerr, but the more I think about this EDF stuff, the more I find I like it. I will always want to have at least one or two turbine planes, but it would be awesome to have a high performance EDF for the local small field. More videos of the medium size high performance EDF stuff! Its not the roar of a turbine, but I like the Hoover/Oreck sound!!! [8D]
Sorry Mr. Kerr, but the more I think about this EDF stuff, the more I find I like it. I will always want to have at least one or two turbine planes, but it would be awesome to have a high performance EDF for the local small field. More videos of the medium size high performance EDF stuff! Its not the roar of a turbine, but I like the Hoover/Oreck sound!!! [8D]
Daren
04-05-2006, 11:26 PM
#193
RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Daren Savage
Here, here. There's room in my stable and heart for more than one kind of r/c model. EDFs will never match the performance of a turbine. But they can match the size and performance of a glow ducted fan, which makes them good stepping stones into waiverdom. Building brand loyalty from the beginning is not a bad idea.
Daren
ORIGINAL: Woketman
Sorry Mr. Kerr, but the more I think about this EDF stuff, the more I find I like it. I will always want to have at least one or two turbine planes, but it would be awesome to have a high performance EDF for the local small field. More videos of the medium size high performance EDF stuff! Its not the roar of a turbine, but I like the Hoover/Oreck sound!!! [8D]
Sorry Mr. Kerr, but the more I think about this EDF stuff, the more I find I like it. I will always want to have at least one or two turbine planes, but it would be awesome to have a high performance EDF for the local small field. More videos of the medium size high performance EDF stuff! Its not the roar of a turbine, but I like the Hoover/Oreck sound!!! [8D]
Daren
Some of us fly all three forms of ....dare I say it....JETS!
Why all three? The turbines give me the gut wrench of sound, speed and smell, the edfs allow a range of sizes and comlexities....I don't wnat to even think about White Knight having been anything other than edf....and glow for when fire bans are in effect, and responsible flyers pay attention to avoiding the possibility of the being the starter of a conflagration.
My options: 1)turbine 2) edf 3) glow...but I do still have them (loud, noisy, slimy things that they are...)
After all, they are all jets!
Greg
04-05-2006, 11:41 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
Thanks Greg. You'll probably find that as edfs evolve and enlarge, you'll phase out the glow. They would be too overbuilt and heavy for electric, so would probably be better suited to turbine conversion, if possible. I get longer run times on my edfs than I do on my gdfs (and they start first time, every time! 
).
Daren
).Daren
04-05-2006, 11:54 PM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Daren Savage
Thanks Greg. You'll probably find that as edfs evolve and enlarge, you'll phase out the glow. They would be too overbuilt and heavy for electric, so would probably be better suited to turbine conversion, if possible. I get longer run times on my edfs than I do on my gdfs (and they start first time, every time! ).
Daren
Thanks Greg. You'll probably find that as edfs evolve and enlarge, you'll phase out the glow. They would be too overbuilt and heavy for electric, so would probably be better suited to turbine conversion, if possible. I get longer run times on my edfs than I do on my gdfs (and they start first time, every time!
).Daren
04-06-2006, 12:01 AM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
Here's another interesting BVM conversion. Ralf Ddvorak's P-80. Beautiful work. Should be a great flyer, nice presentation in the air.
[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433586]I did the Guillotine thing... BVM P-80 conversion to electric...[/link]
Daren
[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433586]I did the Guillotine thing... BVM P-80 conversion to electric...[/link]
Daren
04-06-2006, 07:33 AM
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RE: EVF (Electric VioFan) Thrust?
ORIGINAL: Daren Savage
Here's another interesting BVM conversion. Ralf Ddvorak's P-80. Beautiful work. Should be a great flyer, nice presentation in the air.
[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433586]I did the Guillotine thing... BVM P-80 conversion to electric...[/link]
Daren
Here's another interesting BVM conversion. Ralf Ddvorak's P-80. Beautiful work. Should be a great flyer, nice presentation in the air.
[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433586]I did the Guillotine thing... BVM P-80 conversion to electric...[/link]
Daren
Funny how over on RCgoofs(aka the GWS board: "Wow, I'm goona get a jet as soon as I finish my Slow Stick!") Ralphy Dvorak is treated like GOD HIMSELF, but in the turbine world, there are actually quite a few guys who do planes like his, only turbine powered, over and over again. Beeeg fish in a little sea!
