Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
05-13-2006, 11:22 AM
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Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
I am installing my radio in a Kangaroo but dont have the instructions. Do you guys have the two servos in each wing wired together ie as a pair of elevons or do you use the inboard one as an elevator and the outboard one as aileron. Either way what are the suggested throws on each? Many thanks.
05-13-2006, 11:46 AM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
Hi David,
mix them as an elevon and for throws please try this :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_37...tm.htm#3722000
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2041385
Regards
mix them as an elevon and for throws please try this :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_37...tm.htm#3722000
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2041385
Regards
05-13-2006, 12:04 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
David
...Try this link to the instruction manual from Graupner ... Bit slow sometimes but be patient... Not given up with the BB have you..
http://www.graupner.de/fileadmin/dow...ungen/6264.pdf
05-13-2006, 12:26 PM
#6
RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
Not even a laugh?
Guys, you can not have seperate elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft. It's not possible. The "hotcat" that has an added horizontal stab is the only delta aircraft that I know of in existance for RC that can take the ass end of a delta wing and make ailerons that change roll and not pitch.
The very question is crazy, and completely surprising that a guy putting a turbine aircraft together would be asking. Presumably a zagi, or some type of delta wing glow airplane, or somewhere in the line would have been come across.
Anyway, look up rates and build mods etc off posts Todd and I have made on this airplane and you will have no issues.
Guys, you can not have seperate elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft. It's not possible. The "hotcat" that has an added horizontal stab is the only delta aircraft that I know of in existance for RC that can take the ass end of a delta wing and make ailerons that change roll and not pitch.
The very question is crazy, and completely surprising that a guy putting a turbine aircraft together would be asking. Presumably a zagi, or some type of delta wing glow airplane, or somewhere in the line would have been come across.
Anyway, look up rates and build mods etc off posts Todd and I have made on this airplane and you will have no issues.
05-13-2006, 01:39 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
Unless I am being really thick or missing the style of humour - Seanreit is conatrdicting himself - in one post you are telling me to use the inboards as elevators and the outboards as ailerons and in a later post to treat them as pairs of elevons.
Which is correct - and nobody has yet ventured a suggested amount of throw??
I am even more confused now!!!
PS - I wasnt suggesting this - (Guys, you can not have seperate elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft) - I was asking if I should treat the inboard one as an elevator and the outboard one as aileron OR wired together ie as a pair of elevons
Which is correct - and nobody has yet ventured a suggested amount of throw??
I am even more confused now!!!
PS - I wasnt suggesting this - (Guys, you can not have seperate elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft) - I was asking if I should treat the inboard one as an elevator and the outboard one as aileron OR wired together ie as a pair of elevons
05-13-2006, 01:55 PM
#9
RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
David,
For the record, my C-ARF Rookie II is setup with elevators (inboard) and ailerons (outboard) with the canard throw set to about 32mm up/down. 42 flights with a P-120, no issues.
I realize you have a Kangaroo and I think you'll want to fuse the surfaces together and use a single link to the control surface to create elevons. I recommend that. Had I done that on mine I would have saved a little money and had an easier time programing my 9 channel radio.
Ken
For the record, my C-ARF Rookie II is setup with elevators (inboard) and ailerons (outboard) with the canard throw set to about 32mm up/down. 42 flights with a P-120, no issues.
I realize you have a Kangaroo and I think you'll want to fuse the surfaces together and use a single link to the control surface to create elevons. I recommend that. Had I done that on mine I would have saved a little money and had an easier time programing my 9 channel radio.
Ken
05-13-2006, 04:47 PM
#10
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
David,
There really isn't a "correct" way to do it. It could be set up several ways, it basically amounts to personal preference. I prefer the redundancy of having split control surfaces on the wings. Also depending on how many channels you have available you could put each surface on its own channel or "Y" them. Hope I haven't confused you with too many options.
Sean,
"Guys, you can not have seperate(sp) elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft. It's not possible."
I guess I missed where someone suggested that, perhaps a post was deleted. It wouldn't be hard for someone to program their radio so that the outer surfaces act as ailerons only and the inboard surfaces act as elevons. So for roll all four surfaces move, for pitch just the inboard surfaces move.
I'm not sure why someone would want to set it up this way. Sure seems possible, please explain why it would not work.
Joe
There really isn't a "correct" way to do it. It could be set up several ways, it basically amounts to personal preference. I prefer the redundancy of having split control surfaces on the wings. Also depending on how many channels you have available you could put each surface on its own channel or "Y" them. Hope I haven't confused you with too many options.
Sean,
"Guys, you can not have seperate(sp) elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft. It's not possible."
I guess I missed where someone suggested that, perhaps a post was deleted. It wouldn't be hard for someone to program their radio so that the outer surfaces act as ailerons only and the inboard surfaces act as elevons. So for roll all four surfaces move, for pitch just the inboard surfaces move.
I'm not sure why someone would want to set it up this way. Sure seems possible, please explain why it would not work.
Joe
05-13-2006, 05:18 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
hi david I was at southport when your boomerang went in sorry to see that i was the one showing you my new jet central super bee well i dont now if you was there on sunday or not but i flew mine six times on the sunday and i have just y leaded the elevons together and i have a manual for comp arf kangaroo so just email me on [email protected] and i will sort any question out you have on setting the model up from the manual regards jetman
05-13-2006, 06:00 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
ORIGINAL: joeflyer
David,
There really isn't a "correct" way to do it. It could be set up several ways, it basically amounts to personal preference. I prefer the redundancy of having split control surfaces on the wings. Also depending on how many channels you have available you could put each surface on its own channel or "Y" them. Hope I haven't confused you with too many options.
Sean,
"Guys, you can not have seperate(sp) elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft. It's not possible."
I guess I missed where someone suggested that, perhaps a post was deleted. It wouldn't be hard for someone to program their radio so that the outer surfaces act as ailerons only and the inboard surfaces act as elevons. So for roll all four surfaces move, for pitch just the inboard surfaces move.
I'm not sure why someone would want to set it up this way. Sure seems possible, please explain why it would not work.
Joe
David,
There really isn't a "correct" way to do it. It could be set up several ways, it basically amounts to personal preference. I prefer the redundancy of having split control surfaces on the wings. Also depending on how many channels you have available you could put each surface on its own channel or "Y" them. Hope I haven't confused you with too many options.
Sean,
"Guys, you can not have seperate(sp) elevons and ailerons on a delta wing aircraft. It's not possible."
I guess I missed where someone suggested that, perhaps a post was deleted. It wouldn't be hard for someone to program their radio so that the outer surfaces act as ailerons only and the inboard surfaces act as elevons. So for roll all four surfaces move, for pitch just the inboard surfaces move.
I'm not sure why someone would want to set it up this way. Sure seems possible, please explain why it would not work.
Joe
For one thing you would not have enough elevator to flair for landing, with just the inboard surfaces as the elevator. Surface area is too small.
05-13-2006, 11:14 PM
#13
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
For one thing you would not have enough elevator to flair for landing, with just the inboard surfaces as the elevator. Surface area is too small.
I guess that depends on how big you make the inboard surfaces and how much throw you have. At any rate for landing flair it would be identical to having outboard ailerons and inboard elevators, which two guys who posted above say works fine.
Joe
05-13-2006, 11:41 PM
#14
RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
The manual when you get one will have you set it up with elevons with a "Y" harness in each wing to drive 2 servos working in unison. Recomended servo is JR DS-8411.
Some Roo builders have glued the two elevon segments together and used one DS-8611.
elevator travel +/- 25mm )
aileron travel +/- 20 mm ) > all with 20% Exponential ( I use 25 % Expo )
rudder travel +/- 8-10 mm )
CG 100 mm forward of the leading edge of the main spar
On the Roo I just built I used four (4) Hitec HS-5645MG servos one on each segment. Then I used the Hitec servo programmer to set the center and endpoints of each servo to better match surface movments.
Some Roo builders have glued the two elevon segments together and used one DS-8611.
elevator travel +/- 25mm )
aileron travel +/- 20 mm ) > all with 20% Exponential ( I use 25 % Expo )
rudder travel +/- 8-10 mm )
CG 100 mm forward of the leading edge of the main spar
On the Roo I just built I used four (4) Hitec HS-5645MG servos one on each segment. Then I used the Hitec servo programmer to set the center and endpoints of each servo to better match surface movments.
05-13-2006, 11:48 PM
#15
RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
http://www.composite-arf.com/ar/Rela...=43&spare=true
link to ordering spare parts including manual form composite arf 10.00 euro
link to ordering spare parts including manual form composite arf 10.00 euro
05-14-2006, 12:02 AM
#16
RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
Terry and Joe,
My jet does have a higher landing speed because of my setup. I originally started out with lower throws on my canards, but have increased them to get a better angle of attach on landing. There is a point in the flare over the runway where the stick does "give up" and the jet settles on the mains. If I had the additional surface area of my alerions as part of the elevators (elevons) I'm sure I'd have really slow landings. I do have a long runnway to fly off of so its not that big of a deal with my current setup. Also, the canards play a big part on the landings, so I wouldn't try to setup my rookie like I have it now without them.
My jet does have a higher landing speed because of my setup. I originally started out with lower throws on my canards, but have increased them to get a better angle of attach on landing. There is a point in the flare over the runway where the stick does "give up" and the jet settles on the mains. If I had the additional surface area of my alerions as part of the elevators (elevons) I'm sure I'd have really slow landings. I do have a long runnway to fly off of so its not that big of a deal with my current setup. Also, the canards play a big part on the landings, so I wouldn't try to setup my rookie like I have it now without them.
05-14-2006, 10:12 AM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
ORIGINAL: joeflyer
Hi Terry,
I guess that depends on how big you make the inboard surfaces and how much throw you have. At any rate for landing flair it would be identical to having outboard ailerons and inboard elevators, which two guys who posted above say works fine.
Joe
For one thing you would not have enough elevator to flair for landing, with just the inboard surfaces as the elevator. Surface area is too small.
I guess that depends on how big you make the inboard surfaces and how much throw you have. At any rate for landing flair it would be identical to having outboard ailerons and inboard elevators, which two guys who posted above say works fine.
Joe
Joe, I was refering to Roos and Rookies without canards and with the stock composite wings which come already cut out for ailerons. Not increasing the size of the surfaces.
05-14-2006, 04:58 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
Hi,
If you set up inboard ele and outboard aileron you will have problems rotating especially with the thrustline as is at full power, how do I know? Ask Ron Sweeney, he saw mine go in the swamp at Pampa after failing to rotate, up to the waist in freezing water is not recommended. Phillipe Avonds saw it go in and his opinion was set it up as elevons on both sufaces as you need the ele power further out on the wing. I did another 150+ flights before selling it, have no idea how many more flights Jon Smith put on it using the same set up.......Mike
If you set up inboard ele and outboard aileron you will have problems rotating especially with the thrustline as is at full power, how do I know? Ask Ron Sweeney, he saw mine go in the swamp at Pampa after failing to rotate, up to the waist in freezing water is not recommended. Phillipe Avonds saw it go in and his opinion was set it up as elevons on both sufaces as you need the ele power further out on the wing. I did another 150+ flights before selling it, have no idea how many more flights Jon Smith put on it using the same set up.......Mike
05-14-2006, 05:16 PM
#20
RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
ORIGINAL: trioval00
NEXT QUESTION. I am putting the final touches on my new kangaroo, WHAT servo is the popular choice for rudders????? I am useing JR radios. so Hi-tec servos will be ok too.
Mark
NEXT QUESTION. I am putting the final touches on my new kangaroo, WHAT servo is the popular choice for rudders????? I am useing JR radios. so Hi-tec servos will be ok too.
Mark
you will want at least 80 in/oz servo... I prefere metal gears.
on my first Roo JR DS-8231 thats wha the book called for.
my friends Rookies Hitec HS-645MG.
on my las Roo Hitec HS-5645MG (digitals).
Just what I used.
bob
05-14-2006, 05:36 PM
#21
RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
ORIGINAL: trioval00
WHAT servo is the popular choice for rudders????? I am useing JR radios. so Hi-tec servos will be ok too.
Mark
WHAT servo is the popular choice for rudders????? I am useing JR radios. so Hi-tec servos will be ok too.
Mark
On the elevons, I used at various times, Airtonics 94161's (analog 135 oz/in), JR 8411's, JR 8611's, & Hitec 5945's. All worked fine. Just get as much up elevon as you can for landing.
05-16-2006, 04:08 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
sorry to come in at this late stage but you are wrong about having split controls on a delta i did it on a super reaper and it worked fine so you can do it on a delta you can also make them crow brake and this works well to i also did it on my super reaper regards jetman
05-16-2006, 06:07 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
I have had two Roo's now and both have been set up with elevon control only i.e. fixed inner/outer control surfaces together and then running two Hitec 5645 or JR 8411's per wing 'Y' connected then one panel to ail and the other to elv on Rx, works great and control in both roll and pitch is more effective. I wonder how much this wing set up style may assist with lower Roo landing speed handling?? as I do not need to use the speed brake either at all I find as super slow landings are the norm I have found.
11-27-2008, 10:26 PM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
ORIGINAL: TREADSTONE
David...Try this link to the instruction manual from Graupner ... Bit slow sometimes but be patient...
Not given up with the BB have you..
http://www.graupner.de/fileadmin/dow...ungen/6264.pdf
David
...Try this link to the instruction manual from Graupner ... Bit slow sometimes but be patient... Not given up with the BB have you..
http://www.graupner.de/fileadmin/dow...ungen/6264.pdf
11-28-2008, 03:17 AM
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RE: Kangaroo - split elevons or sep. Elev and Ail????
Hi Jonathan,
The Kangaroo is not a delta, it's a swept flying wing. The reason that elevons are the best solution for this type is that the moment are is so short at the centre span, the sweep back increases the moment arm at the tips and gives better leverage for the elevator function. Unfortunately we also need the full span to give leverage for the aileron function, so the best compromise in elevons. I don't say splitting the functions would not work, but I found the elevator a bit numb on my Roo's and this would make it worse.
See Ya,
John
The Kangaroo is not a delta, it's a swept flying wing. The reason that elevons are the best solution for this type is that the moment are is so short at the centre span, the sweep back increases the moment arm at the tips and gives better leverage for the elevator function. Unfortunately we also need the full span to give leverage for the aileron function, so the best compromise in elevons. I don't say splitting the functions would not work, but I found the elevator a bit numb on my Roo's and this would make it worse.
See Ya,
John