Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
For clarifications sake, could you post some of your specs for us on your "known good" setup? ie. all up weight,C/G location AOA difference form LE to TE, and also clarify your "reflexed down"? ailerons?
Excuse me if I misunderstand, but to reflex and aileron, wouldn't it be going up? and to camber would be going down? Flaps vs. Spoilerons? I just wanna get some actual numbers that work, rather than "a visible amount" or "a little bit" or "around this many"...... I have read this thread start to finish, almost 3 times now, and there are a lot ofvaguemeasurements and angles floating around.
After some posts, I actually felt like I had become less intelligent having read them.... lol...
bottom line is, this is one sexy airplane, and seems to have a good deal of "punch some holes in the sky" factor- I sure would like it to remain in good health and enjoy it rather than thrashing it every weekend.
Someone had posted that the manual would have been more informative and less confusing if written in chinese. I whole heartedly agree!
Thanks all!
KM
“known good” set up is a questionable statement.Weight 8 pounds without fuel.AOA = zero degrees when sitting on the ground.GC is approximately 10 1/8”.Engine TH .75Prop 11 X 8 pusher13,000 max rpm.I find that ailerons down less than 1/16” makes a difference during take off. Aileron must be adjusted to neutral after take off for airplane to fly level at speed. Leap off ground seems worse when ailerons are neutral. Down ailerons push the nose down. Seems backwards.I have landed with more than 1/8” up aileron reflex but it was with a smaller engine and probably does not apply to the current .75 engine, which has a higher pitch prop.Idle speed of 3500 rpm is likely to produce a bounce. At 3000 rpm landings are generally without bounce. The airplane flies very flat with a dead engine. It has never bounced when the engine was dead but lands long.Ground run time and taxi time makes a difference in how the engine runs. Will test with slight positive AOA soon to determine if ‘leap of ground’ is reduced.Bill
I would be cautious with the AOA increase, and probably try it in 1/8" increments as not to get too far behind the 8ball... it will take off oh so sweet, but I just can't get the image of the plane in the air on that last bounce........ Unfortunately, I have yet to experiment with the spoilerons, and will be doing so this weekend, weather permitting. I'll be reducing some of the throw on them just in case...
The Bobcat is all fixed up now, minus some covering repair on the bottom of the wing where the retract twisted. After athoroughinspection on the gear block failure, I have noted that I'll just re glue the block into the wing, fixing the cracked light ply with thin ca and a bit of carbon fiber tow. the wing and the block absorbed a tremendous amount of stress, and failed in the most appropriate area IMHO..
The Robart 501 main aluminum housing actually was bent, pinching the trunion. (aluminum block that pivots and the gear leg goes into) If I was to beef up the gear block area too much, I'd be afraid of it failing the spar, or more of the wing itself..
Soooo, We'll see how "round two" goes on sunday...
KM
I have gotten the engine tuning sorted out, and it's running MUCH better!
I had two flights on sunday, where I got some impressive looking speed out of it, and was finally able to evaluate trim and C/G withoutworryingabout the engine.
Crashpro had taken some video, and extracted a few clips with the fastest passes. He then posted them in another forum for Doppler readings, and got a best speed of 145 mph out of a shallow dive. Very impressive, but I'm a bit skeptical that it was exactly that fast. ifdefinitelyfelt and looked like it was over a hundred, but a buck forty five? might be pushing it.... However, I understand it is pretty accurate....
I'm going to try an un-sprung front gear leg, and smaller low bounce main wheels next, along with moving the C/G back to 10.25". This plane is proving to be challenging, but a bunch of fun!
www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8814477/tm.htm
I also fly Kougars and they stick like glue on landing. The Kougars are all set up with a negative AOA with mains 3” or so behind the CG.
Bill
Well, I decreased the AOA, and have had better results, but will go further to almost 0/0 AOA.... it still just wants to jump and bounce on landing, and it's hair raising to say the least!
Yet I can still keep my positive AOA for takeoffs and not have the "stuck to the ground" problem.
Well, I decreased the AOA, and have had better results, but will go further to almost 0/0 AOA.... it still just wants to jump and bounce on landing, and it's hair raising to say the least!
Yet I can still keep my positive AOA for takeoffs and not have the "stuck to the ground" problem.
Last thing I like to do on maiden flights is throw all the switches and crap. There is another one at our field that takes off and lands just dandy without all that jazz.
I am not saying that there is nothing to be gleaned from the spoilerons, (they're programmed in and ready to go in my TX) just not on your first flight- and with a runway like ours, you got room! hot landings are cool by me for first flights, but the pogo stick thing has to go! He He!
Hi All,
Just bought the yellow / red bobcat from Colchester A1 models in the UK along with a set of spring air type retracts (although not made by spring air) Can't wait to get this thing flying! I'm going to use an ASP .62 which came out of a recently deceased WOT4.
I’ve followed the thread so far with great interest and taken on board many good tips…thanks to all!
I’ve got a question tho.. Has anyone experienced any quality issues with the airframe / wing construction (poor captive nut fitting aside) my 2 wing panels seem different towards the trailing edge close to where the booms fit. One panel has a straight trailing edge along the whole length and the other has a slight return close to the boom. Also one of the ailerons does not fit nicely, I cant get it to line up straight between the wing tip and inboard trailing edge. If I get the trailing edge of the aileron to line up with wing tip I end up with a considerable downward reflex towards the inboard trailing edge. I can go for a ‘line of best fit’ by re-hinging the aileron but the whole aileron will sit diagonally across the wing resulting in the outboard end of the aileron sitting slightly low to the bottom of the wing and the inboard end being slightly high.
I would kike to sort this out myself, I recon it will be difficult to return the model to the shop as it is not ‘as new’.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chuck.
How much of a chore is it to assemble the model at the field with the removable wings. I didn't consider this when I bought the plane!
is it self jigging or will I need to check all measurements before each flight and manually adjust everything so its square??
Thanks,
chuck.
On the first post, Iwould check to see that the aileron is not warped by sighting down it from tip to root, and hopefully it is! then just twist it in the correct direction and warp it back into place while shrinking it with the heat gun. this should work for a warped control surface. The trailing edge at the booms is clipped on mine, and appears to be the norm from the few I've seen, and the various other pics I've seen. hope this helps a bit, and rest assured, others will happily pitch in and help on this thread!!! good luck! I'll try to post pics of the inside when I get home this evening.
KM
Thanks for your reply KM,
I'm off to the workshop to hopefully find a twisted aileron (doubt it tho..I hope I would of spotted this already)
Concerning rigging at the field, in order to transport it in one piece I will need to get my old knackered death trap of a van back on the road which seems a false economy!! So I think I will have to resort to field assembly. I am fairly happy with all servo and airline connectors as I will have a loom assembly which I can easily access through the removable belly hatch. It’s more the geometry of wing, stab, booms, fuz I'm concerned about.
Looking forward to some pics, I'll post some of my efforts also.
Hope you had / have a great flight. I'm off to the field this evening for some raptor action!!
Cheers,
Chuck.
Well I took the plunge and found line of best fit for the aileron, its not perfect but will be ok. Thanks for the advice KM, the aileron was slightly out of true and a gentle steaming got it a much better fit. the real problem seems to be with the wing panel being slightly off...it looks like they ran out of decent wood in <place><country-region><country-region><place>China</place></country-region> and found some scraps to finish the wing with!!
progress slowed when I spilled a load of thin CA all over the wing so spent the rest of the evening cleaning everything up, I then went to the flying field for some light relief and blew a hole in the piston on my Raptor Titan resulting in its first auto....thank goodness for corn fields!!
Thanks for your input Xairflyer, I have an Audi A4 Avant (estate) so hopefully will be able to transport the plane complete.
I would post some pics but cant figure out how to... any advise?
Chuck
Right, got another problem.... the instructions suggest the wing bolts are 4mm however the captive nuts in mine are only 3mm and they are not put in straight! has anyone else ended up using 3mm bolts? they seem a bit on the small side for a 150mph plane! A
Icould always try hammering the captive nuts out of the root and replace with 4-5mm jobs but would prefer to avoid this if anyone could tell me they have used 3mm without any trouble and the fact the bolts are not straight wont be a problem.
Thanks.
Chuck
One thing that's tough with these planes is the fact that there are a few variants of them. some have different hardware, and some have hatches in the underbelly. Some also were built by people who care, and others were not. lol! When mocking up everything, I noticed about a half an inch of difference in the height of the rudders- this made it an easy decision to block them in and delete their existence... I had planned to drill a couple of 1 1/2" lightening holes in the rudders since they were solid, but forgot and got carried away with the covering- good thing I did, as I was way too nose heavy with a traditional layout! The 5cell battery is now along side the fuel tank. I intend to open it up, and take some final pics of things soon, but I have a few other projects that have been consuming my time.... I think everyone knows the drill.. lol!
LOOKINGGOODchuckie!
BTW- if the wing mount bolts are angled somewhat downward, I would at least try to mock up the plane with them the way they are, as this may make it easier to get to them through the hatch.
I had to cut my own hatch in the bottom, and when I showed a few club members that have, and have had bobcats, they said it was how they come. Sheesh! ....and I was really proud of my "great idea"!
KM
I've talked myself into tolerating the 3mm wing bolt as I recon the torsional and bending loads will be easily taken by the ali wing tube and piano wire joiner. the bolts only need to stop the wings falling off!! (I've also read on another thread the wings are pulled inwards towards the fuz by arerodynamic forces in flight)
looking forward to the pics of yours when time allows, if you did a stearable, retractable nose wheel a pic of that assembly would be a great help!
Brilliant idea with the belly hatch by the way.... all us newcomers to the bobcat are forever in your debt!!
Cheers,
Chuck.
The steerable nose wheel is kind of a joke, but works just fine once you've spent an entire day cycling the gear and re adjusting- lol- The trick is to leave a good amount of slop in the pull pull cables, otherwise they will not allow the gear to lock down, and well- you know what happens then...... the cables have to be routed in a manner so that they can be pushed out of the way when the gear retracts, and not bind the gear in the up position. cause if it's stuck up, well... then you also know what happens next..... a picture is worth a thousand words, so I'll try to post some up.
I am not saying by any means that this is the only way to do it, just the only way I feel confident doing it in this application. I am a carpenter by trade, and what I would call "VERY mechanically minded", so I have tried to make things function as well as they can. in the case of the nose gear, I tried a few different things, and essentially gave up after it worked well rather than trying to clean it up more and refine it. Y'all should see my sketch pad! Ha ha!
Did yours come with the belly pan pre cut? if not, and you decide to do it, I'll throw a tape measure in the pic for reference.
KM
I found myself in Spain then Portugal on a last minute business trip this week whichhas kept meoutof thework-shop. Going to getback on it now tho, theundercarriage is next...again nothing is simple the wheels do not sit in the stock wells very nicely so I recon I'll end up lining them with balsa instead.
I'll post an update at the end of the day after I've done something....