YF23 PAV3 Project
08-26-2006, 01:10 AM
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YF23 PAV3 Project
Hey Guys,
I have been meaning to do a post for a while now about my YF-23 project nicknamed PAV-3 "Prototype Air Vehicle" by several of Northrop's original YF-23 Team members who have taken an interest on this version of the Black Widow II. I have had a great time sharing this project with many of Northrop Grumman’s "NGC" employees and I look forward to the day when the large 100 inch twin turbine version finally gets in the air for the first time" well, on second thought I will probably be nervous as hell and loose three pounds during the 3-4 minute test flight but I really do want to see this bird in the air and I am committed to seeing the project through God Willing.
Some of you may know that I am continuing the amazing work that Mike Downs started more than 7 years ago. Currently I have 3 different versions of the YF-23. One is 36 inches and was meant to test as a glider with scale flight surfaces but since has been converted to an electric tractor. The second is a 65 inch version which was powered by two 4.5 inch fans and .21 engines. At the time of the original test flight flights that took place many years ago we had similar results as Allen did with his YF-23 project. The jet would rotate but then only fly for a short period and auger in. This was mainly due to the fact that the power plants could only develop about 2 Lbs of thrust each; for a 13 pound airplane this was on the extreme edge of not being possible at all. After several attempts it was decided that there was simply not enough power to take off from a conventional runway no mater how shallow the climb out even with the fans turning at 21000. At this point the landing gear was removed and Bob Parks offered his large 180 inch Mother Ship to release PAV3 in flight to give us the best chance at success.
PAV-3, s engines were started and the Mother Ship took off. After getting to altitude the 23 was released. The CG seemed to be good as the aircraft was able to make several descending circuits around the field without the typical pitch up tendencies with the aft CG situation but it was clear that the engines were simply just not producing enough power to maintain altitude. At this point the project moved to working on the Large 100 inch YF23 twin. The 100 inch version started out with BVM power plants but then was eventually switched to Ram 750s. There were several Taxi tests done with the large 23 but no attempt was going to be made to fly it till the CG and control throws was ironed with the smaller models.
At this point is when Mike Downs decided to that he wanted to focus his attentions on a new project; he realized what attracted him about the YF-23 was the challenge of designing/building the models and that he discovered he was not really as interested in flying as he thought he would be. This is when I obtained the YF-23 project and continued on with the electric conversion of both the 36 inch version which had an extremely high wing loading as well as the 65 inch version which recently had an unexpected test flight during some high speed taxi tests. To my relief the aircraft came back down in the same number of pieces I started with; I am happy to report that PAV3 took off and made three complete circuits under it own power at San Jose's Tomcat field "look for more details in my next post".
As I mentioned I have been wanting to type up a report on my version of the Black Widow II but until recently I could not seem to find the time. I plan to use this thread to document my progress and hopefully report more successes than failures. I look forward to sharing information with other YF23 enthusiasts because it is my humble opinion that the NGC YF23 is still one of the most fascinating aircraft designs ever created.
I have been meaning to do a post for a while now about my YF-23 project nicknamed PAV-3 "Prototype Air Vehicle" by several of Northrop's original YF-23 Team members who have taken an interest on this version of the Black Widow II. I have had a great time sharing this project with many of Northrop Grumman’s "NGC" employees and I look forward to the day when the large 100 inch twin turbine version finally gets in the air for the first time" well, on second thought I will probably be nervous as hell and loose three pounds during the 3-4 minute test flight but I really do want to see this bird in the air and I am committed to seeing the project through God Willing.
Some of you may know that I am continuing the amazing work that Mike Downs started more than 7 years ago. Currently I have 3 different versions of the YF-23. One is 36 inches and was meant to test as a glider with scale flight surfaces but since has been converted to an electric tractor. The second is a 65 inch version which was powered by two 4.5 inch fans and .21 engines. At the time of the original test flight flights that took place many years ago we had similar results as Allen did with his YF-23 project. The jet would rotate but then only fly for a short period and auger in. This was mainly due to the fact that the power plants could only develop about 2 Lbs of thrust each; for a 13 pound airplane this was on the extreme edge of not being possible at all. After several attempts it was decided that there was simply not enough power to take off from a conventional runway no mater how shallow the climb out even with the fans turning at 21000. At this point the landing gear was removed and Bob Parks offered his large 180 inch Mother Ship to release PAV3 in flight to give us the best chance at success.
PAV-3, s engines were started and the Mother Ship took off. After getting to altitude the 23 was released. The CG seemed to be good as the aircraft was able to make several descending circuits around the field without the typical pitch up tendencies with the aft CG situation but it was clear that the engines were simply just not producing enough power to maintain altitude. At this point the project moved to working on the Large 100 inch YF23 twin. The 100 inch version started out with BVM power plants but then was eventually switched to Ram 750s. There were several Taxi tests done with the large 23 but no attempt was going to be made to fly it till the CG and control throws was ironed with the smaller models.
At this point is when Mike Downs decided to that he wanted to focus his attentions on a new project; he realized what attracted him about the YF-23 was the challenge of designing/building the models and that he discovered he was not really as interested in flying as he thought he would be. This is when I obtained the YF-23 project and continued on with the electric conversion of both the 36 inch version which had an extremely high wing loading as well as the 65 inch version which recently had an unexpected test flight during some high speed taxi tests. To my relief the aircraft came back down in the same number of pieces I started with; I am happy to report that PAV3 took off and made three complete circuits under it own power at San Jose's Tomcat field "look for more details in my next post".
As I mentioned I have been wanting to type up a report on my version of the Black Widow II but until recently I could not seem to find the time. I plan to use this thread to document my progress and hopefully report more successes than failures. I look forward to sharing information with other YF23 enthusiasts because it is my humble opinion that the NGC YF23 is still one of the most fascinating aircraft designs ever created.
08-26-2006, 02:08 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
As I mentioned in my previous post I had an unexpected test flight just over a month ago that took the pucker factor to about 11+ on the 1-10 scale. This message was sent to a friend and I have just copied it here to share with anyone who is interested.
At the end of the day durring Tomcats last airshow I took advantage of using the runway to do some high speed taxi tests to check the tracking of the newly installed landing gear and testing the throws on the nose wheel steering system to see what kind of control I had at speed. All seemed to be going well, I had 5 runs down the runway standing on the South end of the field on the centerline with no surprises. So for my 6th run and last run I wanted to get a better idea of what kind of acceleration/speed that I would could expect from the new power plants so I moved my position to Mid field “ on the 700 foot runway” to watch the 23 pass by at 100% power. Footnote, I don’t know if I told you before but I did some static tests on the new electric power plants and they are quite impressive to say the least. I am pulling about 1350 watts at 65 amps per unit developing about 5.25 lbs of thrust with 123 MPH exit wind velocity at the tail cone; with some modification I think I can get the exit wind velocity around the 150 mark. With these results I suspected that the new power plants should generate more than enough power to fly PAV3B considering the last flight test when it was dropped from the mother ship many years ago was using 2 cycle glow ducted fans that were only producing about 2lbs of thrust per unit. Currently I am at about .8 thrust to weight producing 10.5 lbs on a 13.5 lbs airframe.
Getting back to the unexpected flight test; ok everything looks good for the final hi speed taxi test. So I open up the throttle and aircraft accelerated nicely. At mid field and under 3 seconds I would guess PAV3 was doing about 40 mph + so I brought the throttle back to 0 and the vehicle started to slow but it still was going at a good clip. I started to pull back on the elevators because I wanted to see if the nose wheel would uncompress a bit; I wanted to see how much elevator authority I had. To my total surprise I found that I had plenty of elevator control; PAV3 was doing about 30 MPH with elevators deflected about 35-40% when the aircraft decided it was a home sick angle. The next thing I am looking at was PAV3 standing on its tail about 25 feet in the air with almost no airspeed; keep in mind this “EVENT” happened in less than a second. I remember having the typical O-SH#$ remark and thinking to my self that nothing was ready for a flight test” All equipment “ batteries, receiver, wires, speed controllers were just loosely placed in the fuse and were not secured in any way; bad call on my part, lesson learned. Needless to say I went to FULL power and then some managing to mussel the nose back down but the aircraft was on the extreme back end of the power curve in high Alpha. I was fighting to get PAV3 back down in one piece before I ran out of runway but my situation was still slow with what felt like a very aft CG along with a good helping PIO’s starting. Flight controls seem to work even at slow speed but Pitch was very sensitive. I soon discovered that I had no more runway and that if I tried to land in rough I was going to be bring the aircraft home in a couple of Hefty bags “ been there done that to many times” so I decided to power up again and attempt a go around.
As the speed increased PAV3 started to stabilize; I think if I would have let her get on step at speed I could have flown ok but I had to get back on the ground ASAP because the engines/ speed controllers and more importantly the batteries were not tested for sustained high power output compounded by the lack of internal ducting to cool everything down. On downwind leading into base I started to pull off the throttle again to try to set up for a landing “I hoped”. Once again as the 23 started to slow and get into a higher alpha the PIO’s would start. This time over the runway after an abrupt pitch up I actually stalled and the right wing dropped but I was able to gain control over the ailerons quickly; that’s one system that seemed to be working ok, now all I had to do was get PAV3 back on the ground “preferably in the same number of pieces I started with”. Once again I found my self running out of runway so I went around again. In the back of my mind I am thinking the speed controllers “ESC’s” are going to give up the ghost soon and that the LYPO “Lithium Polymer” batteries were going to start on fire mid flight because I couldn’t remember setting the fail safe temp cut off for the ESC’s. At this point I was really to starting to feel the adrenalin rush and my hands were starting to shake. As I entered Base I experience one of the worst sounds a pilot could hear; “NOTHING” the engines had shut down and I prayed that it was just the speed controllers doing their jobs trying to keep the batteries from being run down to far to avoid an in flight fire. So now I am gliding at about 75 feet and I know that this is not going to turn out that great so I pulled the throttles back to 0 to hopefully reset the ESC’s ”Speed Controllers”; after a few seconds we tried for half power and fans came back to life. I knew that this was my last shot so I came in a bit hot on final to try to minimize high AOA; I had a few small PIO’s start but I did manage to touch down on the runway but do to the spring steal gear design I then found myself back in the air again. After drifting over the rough I was doing the throttle/ elevator balancing act to try and keep the nose down. Just as I was about to touch down for the second time I started to have another pitch up but I caught it soon enough and forced the nose back down with full down elevator; as a result I hit the ground fairly hard/flat on all tree tires which bent the gear but as I ran across the field to unplug everything and get the batteries out of the airframe I noticed that everything seemed to be intact.
As I started to get close the aircraft about 5 to 10 feet away I noticed that I could smell a hot electric component scent that’s typical if someone has burnt out the ESC’s. As I tried to get the fuselage opened I realize I did not have a screw driver to remove the bolt that held the two halves of the fuselage together. I contemplated running back to my truck to get the screw driver but I had visions of PAV3 going up in smoke because my custom set LYPO batteries don’t usually do well when overly discharged. I damn near twisted my finger nail off trying to get the screw out fuse but when I did I was surprised to see that the batteries appeared to be in good shape; as I unplugged everything the batteries were just warm “85-90 F I would guess” but my ESC’s however were Extremely HOT “I would say well over 200 F”. From what I understand the ESC’s are rated up to 280 F but we usually set a failsafe temp which will shut the ESC’s down if pushed to far; so I guess the units did their jobs but I will need a tow truck to pull my underwear from my behind because of the extreme Sphincter factor. Funny thing I remembered now that this “EVENT” was over is when I really started to feel the shakes; I guess I did not have time to really think about it while I was fighting to get the plane down but now I had the chance to partially digest everything that just took place and realized I almost lost in 2 minutes what took years to build, as a result I gave myself a few minutes before bringing everything back to the Pit area. On my way back my uneasy feelings switched to this overwhelming feeling of exhilaration because PAV3 just flew three circuits around the field on its own power and the aircraft is still in one piece! After talking with everyone that witnessed the flight we all agreed that the CG still seemed aft and that I may have too much deflection in the elevators. One thing I do know is that I have the right combination hardware to keep PAV3 in the air and give it a good chance of being successful on the “Planned” Test flight that I hope to complete before the end of the month.
If test flights are successful we will remove the open intakes on the top of the wing; currently we want as much are as possible available to the fans. As we start to develop the flight envelope we will install full flying stabs as in the 36 and 100 inch versions show in the news letter. It is my hope that the information gathered on the mid size Black Widow “PAV3B” will directly apply to the 100 inch version of the Model.
As always I am very interested if anyone has any ideas or comments on what I could try to make this project truly successful. At any rate PAV3 did fly and it actually started to fly better at speed but we still have some work to do before I move on to the Large Turbine version of the project.
At the end of the day durring Tomcats last airshow I took advantage of using the runway to do some high speed taxi tests to check the tracking of the newly installed landing gear and testing the throws on the nose wheel steering system to see what kind of control I had at speed. All seemed to be going well, I had 5 runs down the runway standing on the South end of the field on the centerline with no surprises. So for my 6th run and last run I wanted to get a better idea of what kind of acceleration/speed that I would could expect from the new power plants so I moved my position to Mid field “ on the 700 foot runway” to watch the 23 pass by at 100% power. Footnote, I don’t know if I told you before but I did some static tests on the new electric power plants and they are quite impressive to say the least. I am pulling about 1350 watts at 65 amps per unit developing about 5.25 lbs of thrust with 123 MPH exit wind velocity at the tail cone; with some modification I think I can get the exit wind velocity around the 150 mark. With these results I suspected that the new power plants should generate more than enough power to fly PAV3B considering the last flight test when it was dropped from the mother ship many years ago was using 2 cycle glow ducted fans that were only producing about 2lbs of thrust per unit. Currently I am at about .8 thrust to weight producing 10.5 lbs on a 13.5 lbs airframe.
Getting back to the unexpected flight test; ok everything looks good for the final hi speed taxi test. So I open up the throttle and aircraft accelerated nicely. At mid field and under 3 seconds I would guess PAV3 was doing about 40 mph + so I brought the throttle back to 0 and the vehicle started to slow but it still was going at a good clip. I started to pull back on the elevators because I wanted to see if the nose wheel would uncompress a bit; I wanted to see how much elevator authority I had. To my total surprise I found that I had plenty of elevator control; PAV3 was doing about 30 MPH with elevators deflected about 35-40% when the aircraft decided it was a home sick angle. The next thing I am looking at was PAV3 standing on its tail about 25 feet in the air with almost no airspeed; keep in mind this “EVENT” happened in less than a second. I remember having the typical O-SH#$ remark and thinking to my self that nothing was ready for a flight test” All equipment “ batteries, receiver, wires, speed controllers were just loosely placed in the fuse and were not secured in any way; bad call on my part, lesson learned. Needless to say I went to FULL power and then some managing to mussel the nose back down but the aircraft was on the extreme back end of the power curve in high Alpha. I was fighting to get PAV3 back down in one piece before I ran out of runway but my situation was still slow with what felt like a very aft CG along with a good helping PIO’s starting. Flight controls seem to work even at slow speed but Pitch was very sensitive. I soon discovered that I had no more runway and that if I tried to land in rough I was going to be bring the aircraft home in a couple of Hefty bags “ been there done that to many times” so I decided to power up again and attempt a go around.
As the speed increased PAV3 started to stabilize; I think if I would have let her get on step at speed I could have flown ok but I had to get back on the ground ASAP because the engines/ speed controllers and more importantly the batteries were not tested for sustained high power output compounded by the lack of internal ducting to cool everything down. On downwind leading into base I started to pull off the throttle again to try to set up for a landing “I hoped”. Once again as the 23 started to slow and get into a higher alpha the PIO’s would start. This time over the runway after an abrupt pitch up I actually stalled and the right wing dropped but I was able to gain control over the ailerons quickly; that’s one system that seemed to be working ok, now all I had to do was get PAV3 back on the ground “preferably in the same number of pieces I started with”. Once again I found my self running out of runway so I went around again. In the back of my mind I am thinking the speed controllers “ESC’s” are going to give up the ghost soon and that the LYPO “Lithium Polymer” batteries were going to start on fire mid flight because I couldn’t remember setting the fail safe temp cut off for the ESC’s. At this point I was really to starting to feel the adrenalin rush and my hands were starting to shake. As I entered Base I experience one of the worst sounds a pilot could hear; “NOTHING” the engines had shut down and I prayed that it was just the speed controllers doing their jobs trying to keep the batteries from being run down to far to avoid an in flight fire. So now I am gliding at about 75 feet and I know that this is not going to turn out that great so I pulled the throttles back to 0 to hopefully reset the ESC’s ”Speed Controllers”; after a few seconds we tried for half power and fans came back to life. I knew that this was my last shot so I came in a bit hot on final to try to minimize high AOA; I had a few small PIO’s start but I did manage to touch down on the runway but do to the spring steal gear design I then found myself back in the air again. After drifting over the rough I was doing the throttle/ elevator balancing act to try and keep the nose down. Just as I was about to touch down for the second time I started to have another pitch up but I caught it soon enough and forced the nose back down with full down elevator; as a result I hit the ground fairly hard/flat on all tree tires which bent the gear but as I ran across the field to unplug everything and get the batteries out of the airframe I noticed that everything seemed to be intact.
As I started to get close the aircraft about 5 to 10 feet away I noticed that I could smell a hot electric component scent that’s typical if someone has burnt out the ESC’s. As I tried to get the fuselage opened I realize I did not have a screw driver to remove the bolt that held the two halves of the fuselage together. I contemplated running back to my truck to get the screw driver but I had visions of PAV3 going up in smoke because my custom set LYPO batteries don’t usually do well when overly discharged. I damn near twisted my finger nail off trying to get the screw out fuse but when I did I was surprised to see that the batteries appeared to be in good shape; as I unplugged everything the batteries were just warm “85-90 F I would guess” but my ESC’s however were Extremely HOT “I would say well over 200 F”. From what I understand the ESC’s are rated up to 280 F but we usually set a failsafe temp which will shut the ESC’s down if pushed to far; so I guess the units did their jobs but I will need a tow truck to pull my underwear from my behind because of the extreme Sphincter factor. Funny thing I remembered now that this “EVENT” was over is when I really started to feel the shakes; I guess I did not have time to really think about it while I was fighting to get the plane down but now I had the chance to partially digest everything that just took place and realized I almost lost in 2 minutes what took years to build, as a result I gave myself a few minutes before bringing everything back to the Pit area. On my way back my uneasy feelings switched to this overwhelming feeling of exhilaration because PAV3 just flew three circuits around the field on its own power and the aircraft is still in one piece! After talking with everyone that witnessed the flight we all agreed that the CG still seemed aft and that I may have too much deflection in the elevators. One thing I do know is that I have the right combination hardware to keep PAV3 in the air and give it a good chance of being successful on the “Planned” Test flight that I hope to complete before the end of the month.
If test flights are successful we will remove the open intakes on the top of the wing; currently we want as much are as possible available to the fans. As we start to develop the flight envelope we will install full flying stabs as in the 36 and 100 inch versions show in the news letter. It is my hope that the information gathered on the mid size Black Widow “PAV3B” will directly apply to the 100 inch version of the Model.
As always I am very interested if anyone has any ideas or comments on what I could try to make this project truly successful. At any rate PAV3 did fly and it actually started to fly better at speed but we still have some work to do before I move on to the Large Turbine version of the project.
08-26-2006, 01:11 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Hi Dave
I just read your flight report. Nothing short of SHA***NG Awesome. The F23 has always been one of my favourite birds. DO you plan to kit the various varients you have been working on?
Mike
I just read your flight report. Nothing short of SHA***NG Awesome. The F23 has always been one of my favourite birds. DO you plan to kit the various varients you have been working on?
Mike
08-26-2006, 04:15 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Great job, Dave! Keep up the good work.
You already know that you can best define the CG location & fine tune the controls using your electric fan version so you can transfer them & take the plunge with your twin turbine model. That twin turbine model should be an awesome sight in the air indeed!
There are a few things one can do to improve your chances with your E-fan version, as I demonstrated on my 13-lb twin fan F-4 Phantom (refer to my threads here & on the RCGroup forums). You probably know about installing 2 finned heat sinks on each ESC (I assume they're Hackers?). When you got it finally dialled in, I was wondering what effect the effect of your wing top cheater intakes would have on the trim of your model?
If you're willing to supply a short kit or plans for the e-version, PM me at [email protected].
Cheers. Phil Lin
You already know that you can best define the CG location & fine tune the controls using your electric fan version so you can transfer them & take the plunge with your twin turbine model. That twin turbine model should be an awesome sight in the air indeed!
There are a few things one can do to improve your chances with your E-fan version, as I demonstrated on my 13-lb twin fan F-4 Phantom (refer to my threads here & on the RCGroup forums). You probably know about installing 2 finned heat sinks on each ESC (I assume they're Hackers?). When you got it finally dialled in, I was wondering what effect the effect of your wing top cheater intakes would have on the trim of your model?
If you're willing to supply a short kit or plans for the e-version, PM me at [email protected].
Cheers. Phil Lin
08-26-2006, 04:26 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
P.S,: I wud also suggest to replace those filled Nylon spinners on your fans (assuming they're WeMoTecs) with after market aluminum ones, as they are likely to self destruct at your hi-power levels. You can get them from Bruff in Phoenix or directly from Paul. Let me know if you need more info.
Phil
Phil
08-27-2006, 01:14 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the encouragement. If all is successful with the test flights on the 65 version I plan to gradually add the scale intake back on the model. For the initial test flights I wanted to have as much air available for the fans. Actually if the first couple of flights are successful I will be putting in the retracts then gradually cover up the cheater holes; once that is complete I will then make the scale elevons. If the 65 inch version remains intact I will eventually clean it up and make a plug out of it. As far as selling anything I want to make damn sure this model flys well before I consider offering it to the market.
Thanks for the advice on the fans; I will look into the aluminum spinners.
Here are a couple of pictures of the 36 inch version which had a very High wing loading. I did attempt a few test flights with this model but after starting to climb out It would start to tip stall; the only way this version would fly is to completely make it out of foam, even then I don't think it would fly with dual power plants due to how much weight would be needed in the nose.
Talk to you soon.
David.
Thanks for the encouragement. If all is successful with the test flights on the 65 version I plan to gradually add the scale intake back on the model. For the initial test flights I wanted to have as much air available for the fans. Actually if the first couple of flights are successful I will be putting in the retracts then gradually cover up the cheater holes; once that is complete I will then make the scale elevons. If the 65 inch version remains intact I will eventually clean it up and make a plug out of it. As far as selling anything I want to make damn sure this model flys well before I consider offering it to the market.
Thanks for the advice on the fans; I will look into the aluminum spinners.
Here are a couple of pictures of the 36 inch version which had a very High wing loading. I did attempt a few test flights with this model but after starting to climb out It would start to tip stall; the only way this version would fly is to completely make it out of foam, even then I don't think it would fly with dual power plants due to how much weight would be needed in the nose.
Talk to you soon.
David.
08-29-2006, 11:22 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Hey Dave; that is thus far the most Accurate yf-23 i've seen. I have been trying to find Kits for this Prototype Aircraft but have been so un-successful (1/10 scale) or close to. I was just going to start
making one from scratch, but i could not even find a decent model scale to chop-up for cross sections.
Please what ever you do, please make kits for us unfortunate folks. you are doing exactly what i wanted to do as a dream and your actually doing it for real, so all the r&D is already done. Good work and keep this project alive! it must succeed...... good good work Dave.
making one from scratch, but i could not even find a decent model scale to chop-up for cross sections.
Please what ever you do, please make kits for us unfortunate folks. you are doing exactly what i wanted to do as a dream and your actually doing it for real, so all the r&D is already done. Good work and keep this project alive! it must succeed...... good good work Dave.
08-29-2006, 01:48 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Hi
I second that.
I believe that both the 65inch leccy and the big 100 inch turbine powered version would be very popular. In fact I would put my name down for one tomorrow.
Mike
I second that.
I believe that both the 65inch leccy and the big 100 inch turbine powered version would be very popular. In fact I would put my name down for one tomorrow.
Mike
09-06-2006, 12:23 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
That is an awsome RC YF-23! Thanks for your efforts in keeping this plane alive in one form or another. I look foward to your updates and if the big one ever is available to the masses, I would definately look into getting one, even though I'm new to this hobby. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
09-06-2006, 10:23 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
I've never come across any mpegs online. Then again I never looked. But when I used to work at McAir back then, I did hold onto a few company videotapes (sent out to employees) showing the 23 doing it's thing. It's a cool plane I'd like to make a model of one day. Much nicer looking than that other boring thing... Too many airplane projects, and not enough time. 
09-06-2006, 11:11 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
ORIGINAL: yf23designer
Is it just Me , or there isnt any known video mpeg on the web with the yf-23 in total flight ! (rc and or the real thing).
Is it just Me , or there isnt any known video mpeg on the web with the yf-23 in total flight ! (rc and or the real thing).
Cheers,
Phil
10-25-2006, 01:31 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
65 inch PAV3B Flight Tests SUCCESSFUL!!!!
Hey Guys,
Here is a quick update as to how the test flights went; I will write up in a little more detail later this week. Does anyone know what the limits of video sizes that I can post on RCU by the way?
I have had my head under the radar for a while due to work deadlines but I came up for air this last weekend; yesterday I decided that I could not wait any more to see if this bird would fly so I drove out to Tracy CA. Once there I was setting everthing up only to discover that I had left my battery extensions at home I knew if I couldn't come up with something my Friend Ray "the Camera Man" would never let me hear the end of it. Frantically I tore apart my tool box see if I could rig up something that would work for power leads. Luckily I had my charging box with me and between the assortments of charging cables I managed to create one lead out of tree different adapters. Ok one down but I was really starting to sweat now because I still needed one more battery extension" I was thinking What In the Hell am I going to do" then I saw my medusa power meter; hey that will work! Now that I had Ray off my back I we preceded with the first flight. First flight went well for the first 60 seconds or so until Ray asked how was Pav3 flying? I was in the middle of saying OK then I had a bad Radio hit that pushed my nose down and rolled me 90 degrees right. After correcting I made another circuit only to be hit again three times in quick succession; this time I thought model was going to be a Lawn dart as you can see in the video “ soon as I can get it posted” Thankfully Pav 3 was not ready to give up the ghost as of yet and I was able to line up for an approach. On final I was a bit fast and I did get hit with a few more small radio glitches but nothing as bad as before. I was drifting to the left of centerline but I absolutely did not want to risk a go around so I touched down on the edge of the runway and this is when Pav3 became a dune buggy. Thankfully the simple spring steel gear sucked up the bumps and weeds but during taxi back I noticed that the Left elevon was going nuts. After inspection of the wires we found that one of the servo extensions had come loose but we still seemed to be getting a bit of interference with the receiver. After changing out to a ZPCM receiver we eliminated anymore radio glitches.
2nd flight went a bit smoother, after setting up in down wind I pulled back to 70 % power while I focused on finishing trimming for level; I needed 8 clicks of up elevator and a few clicks of left aileron to go hands off. After another pas everything seemed stable so I did a roll to see check the aileron response, roll rate was good but I noticed that Pav3 three would continue to roll a bit after the controls were neutral; I am not sure if this was due to the diamond wing design or just inertia. Ok now my transmitter is beeping at me so time to set up for landing. During my cross wind I tried to do a coordinated turn but found that the rudder inputs were way to sencative. My approach was good enough but I ballooned up when I started to flare so I decided to go around for another try. This time I extended a bit more on down wind and got things slowed down maybe a bit to much because as you can see in the video I was getting into the pitch up tendency that has plagued us during some of our early drop tests” I wonder now that I had 8 clicks of up trim if this was aggravating this known bi stable problem. All in all the landing could have been better but I am very happy that PAV3B went home in the same number of pieces as it started the day with.
I will be posting Video just as soon as I can; hopefully sometime this week. All in all I am extremely happy with the results of our first test flights and I look forward to expanding the flight envelope maybe in the next two weeks.
Talk to you soon.
Hey Guys,
Here is a quick update as to how the test flights went; I will write up in a little more detail later this week. Does anyone know what the limits of video sizes that I can post on RCU by the way?
I have had my head under the radar for a while due to work deadlines but I came up for air this last weekend; yesterday I decided that I could not wait any more to see if this bird would fly so I drove out to Tracy CA. Once there I was setting everthing up only to discover that I had left my battery extensions at home I knew if I couldn't come up with something my Friend Ray "the Camera Man" would never let me hear the end of it. Frantically I tore apart my tool box see if I could rig up something that would work for power leads. Luckily I had my charging box with me and between the assortments of charging cables I managed to create one lead out of tree different adapters. Ok one down but I was really starting to sweat now because I still needed one more battery extension" I was thinking What In the Hell am I going to do" then I saw my medusa power meter; hey that will work! Now that I had Ray off my back I we preceded with the first flight. First flight went well for the first 60 seconds or so until Ray asked how was Pav3 flying? I was in the middle of saying OK then I had a bad Radio hit that pushed my nose down and rolled me 90 degrees right. After correcting I made another circuit only to be hit again three times in quick succession; this time I thought model was going to be a Lawn dart as you can see in the video “ soon as I can get it posted” Thankfully Pav 3 was not ready to give up the ghost as of yet and I was able to line up for an approach. On final I was a bit fast and I did get hit with a few more small radio glitches but nothing as bad as before. I was drifting to the left of centerline but I absolutely did not want to risk a go around so I touched down on the edge of the runway and this is when Pav3 became a dune buggy. Thankfully the simple spring steel gear sucked up the bumps and weeds but during taxi back I noticed that the Left elevon was going nuts. After inspection of the wires we found that one of the servo extensions had come loose but we still seemed to be getting a bit of interference with the receiver. After changing out to a ZPCM receiver we eliminated anymore radio glitches.
2nd flight went a bit smoother, after setting up in down wind I pulled back to 70 % power while I focused on finishing trimming for level; I needed 8 clicks of up elevator and a few clicks of left aileron to go hands off. After another pas everything seemed stable so I did a roll to see check the aileron response, roll rate was good but I noticed that Pav3 three would continue to roll a bit after the controls were neutral; I am not sure if this was due to the diamond wing design or just inertia. Ok now my transmitter is beeping at me so time to set up for landing. During my cross wind I tried to do a coordinated turn but found that the rudder inputs were way to sencative. My approach was good enough but I ballooned up when I started to flare so I decided to go around for another try. This time I extended a bit more on down wind and got things slowed down maybe a bit to much because as you can see in the video I was getting into the pitch up tendency that has plagued us during some of our early drop tests” I wonder now that I had 8 clicks of up trim if this was aggravating this known bi stable problem. All in all the landing could have been better but I am very happy that PAV3B went home in the same number of pieces as it started the day with.
I will be posting Video just as soon as I can; hopefully sometime this week. All in all I am extremely happy with the results of our first test flights and I look forward to expanding the flight envelope maybe in the next two weeks.
Talk to you soon.
10-25-2006, 01:40 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Hey Guys,
I now have a video ready; this is actually the 2nd test flight which was very straight forward, mainly just spend time to trim everthing out. I will put the first flight showing the radio hits tomorrow.
Here is the link for the video: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...57#post6277384 I dont know how to post movie files on RCU so this is a temporary link to the test flight. IF someone knows how I can post video's to RCU please let me know.
Please let me know if you have any ideas on making this project a success.
Talk to you soon.
I now have a video ready; this is actually the 2nd test flight which was very straight forward, mainly just spend time to trim everthing out. I will put the first flight showing the radio hits tomorrow.
Here is the link for the video: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...57#post6277384 I dont know how to post movie files on RCU so this is a temporary link to the test flight. IF someone knows how I can post video's to RCU please let me know.
Please let me know if you have any ideas on making this project a success.
Talk to you soon.
10-29-2006, 03:06 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Hey Guys,
Going to try the 2nd round of test flights tomorrow. I will be expanding the flight evelope a bit to incorperate loops, slow flight and stalls at altitude; hopefully all will go well.
I will send an update tomorrow.
Going to try the 2nd round of test flights tomorrow. I will be expanding the flight evelope a bit to incorperate loops, slow flight and stalls at altitude; hopefully all will go well.
I will send an update tomorrow.
10-29-2006, 09:00 AM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
So what is this in,,, what game?
Good luck Dave,, Let us know how it goes
Dave
Good luck Dave,, Let us know how it goes
Dave
ORIGINAL: Nightwalker
Very cool, keep up the great work................there's a few of us following this.
Very cool, keep up the great work................there's a few of us following this.
10-29-2006, 02:49 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
So what is this in,,, what game?
So what is this in,,, what game?
A little from the readme file of the YF-23.....................that you guys working on this probably may have but if not...........FS2004 Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23A Black Widow II PAV-1 87800 and PAV-2 87801.
Informations:
This is a more complete package than the original aircraft you can find on www.avsim.com (file: yf-23.zip, download number 31329, exclusively from Daniel Buechter and Bryan Betts). It adds to the original aircraft many other features (that you can find listed below) to simulate as best as possible the real YF-23A.
Copyrights:
3D Model, Textures and Flight Manual by Daniel Buechter ([email protected]).
Flight Dynamics, Sound and Flight Manual by Bryan Betts ([email protected]).
Flight Dynamics Mods, Panel, Effects and Package by Simone Pratticò ([email protected]).
Original Effects by JR ([email protected])
HUD and many other gauges by Eric Marciano ([email protected]).
MFD and many other gauges by Cyril Pioffet ([email protected]).
Background panel image by Johan Peeters ([email protected])
Features:
-GMAX built 3D model with basic virtual cockpit.
-Detailed, high-resolution, reflective dxt3 textures.
-Transparent reflective canopy and detailed pilot.
-Fully animated control surfaces.
-Fully animated landing gear.
-Afterburner effect that works realistically when AB command is selected.
-Very realistic Flight Dynamics based on virtual wind tunnel data.
-Custom sounds, mixed to be throaty and powerful.
-Condense contrails for wing tips, fuselage and flaps.
-Flight Checklist, Procedures, References and Flight Manual.
-Realistic Panel.
Installation:
Extract the files to your FS2002 root folder. Make sure you have "use folder names" checked in the extraction program.
History:
In 1981, the Air Force developed a requirement for an Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) as a new air superiority fighter. It would take advantage of the new technologies in fighter design on the horizon including composite materials, lightweight alloys, advanced flight control systems, higher power propulsion systems, and stealth technology. Air Force leaders believed these new technologies would make aircraft like the F-15 and F-16 obsolete by the early 21st century. In 1985, the Air Force sent out technical requests for proposals to a number of aircraft manufacturing teams (Boeing/General Dynamics and Northrop/McDonnell Douglas). The Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) project was conceived in the early years of Reagan administration. It was pictured as being the aircraft which would replace the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle in USAF service. The competitors were Lockheed with its YF-22A and Northrop/McDonnell Douglas with its YF-23A. Like the YF-22A team, the Northrop team built two YF-23A prototypes, P[rototype] A[ir] V[ehicle] 1 (s/n 87800, known as "Grey Ghost") and 2 (s/n 878001, known as "Spider"), the first with Pratt & Whitney YF-119 engines and the last whit General Electric YF-120 engines. The first prototype rolled out in June 22, 1990 and began flight testing on August 29. This was 2 days before Lockheed had presented their competitor, the YF-22A. The flight program lasted 65 hours divided into 50 flights, ended by second prototype 18th Dec 1990. Flight testing was very successful, unfortunately the more conventional YF-22A won the competition in 1991. The YF-23A is said to have been more stealthy and faster that the YF-22A, while the YF-22A was more maneuverable and had a better thought out (and already working) missile deployment system. It is rumored that the outcome was partly due to economical reasons, and YF-23A technology might be flying today in more recent, classified developments.
Specifications:
Prime Contractor: Northrop Corp.
Subcontractor: McDonnell Douglas Corp.
Type: YF-23A "Black Widow" II
Year: 1990
Crew: 1
Number Built: 2 (PAV-1 (87-800), PAV-2 (87-801))
Engines: 2 YF-119-PW-100 (PAV-1) or 2 YF-120-GE-100 (PAV-2)
Maximum Speed: 1.6M (No AB), 2.0M (AB)
Cruise Speed: 1.45M at 36000Ft
Service Ceiling: 65000Ft
Take Off Lenght: 3500Ft
Maximum G-Loads: +9/-4 Clean at High Altitude
Combat Radius: 750Nm
Empty Weight: 29000Lb
Normal Weight: 54000Lb
Combat Weight: 62000Lb
Fuel Load: 2400Gal
Wingspan: 43.7Ft
Lenght: 67.5Ft
Height: 13.11Ft
Wing Area: 900sqFT
Weapons Load (Planned): 8+ Short/Mid Range AAM + 1 Vulcan Cannon
Remarks: Lost ATF Program to YF-22A
Notes:
We tried to recreate flight dynamics, visuals and animations as accurately as possible. However some tradeoffs had to be made, as there is very limited information easily available on this unique aircraft and due to some limitations of FS2004. Any reliable information unknown to us is welcome for possible future releases. Also, feel free to contact us if you want to contribute to our project.
Bugs:
As of now, the bay doors sometimes open, sometimes not.
Interesting Internet Links About The YF-23A:
http://www.voodoo.cz/yf23/index.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...craft/f-23.htm
http://www.invisible-defenders.org/yf-23.htm
http://aircraftstories.free.fr/mono/...ages/pages.htm
COPYRIGHT AND DISTRIBUTION:
This aircraft package is released as FREEWARE.
DO NOT MAKE MONEY WHIT THIS PACKAGE WHITOUT AUTHORIZATION OF ANY AUTHORS INVOLVED IN IT!!!
Copyright (C) Daniel Buechter, Bryan Betts. All rights reserved.
Further Copyright (C) goes to the respective authors of all the components in this package.
Use at your own risk! (It is highly improbable that this software will damage any computer. However, we cannot be held responsible for any damage that might occur while using this product.)
Please respect the freeware policy and copyright laws.
Please do not distribute this package without prior written consult from the copyright holders, especially on "hard media", e.g. CDs for magazines.
I (and I'm sure many others) am following this thread and it's progress with great interest as I was going to have this bird laid up by Mr. Allen a couple of years ago out there in LA. I for sure would like to aquire a turbine kit of this jet if it is made available. Your approach to flight test/envelope expansion is right on and definately is on track for success of the turbine model..........................
In the meantime, a few of us will sit here at the computer and keep dreaming for a short while longer...........
11-01-2006, 02:21 PM
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RE: YF23 PAV3 Project
Thanks for forwarding the F23 simulator info Bryce,
Hurry up and install Flight X Dave, I will fly Pav1 and you can jump into Pav2; will do some approaches to SFO
Bryce, I have had the YF23 dowloads for a while now but I am finding that it wont work in Flight X that well. I keep getting error messages saying that code for most of gauges and parts of the aircraft are not supported anymore? I wonder what this will mean for the 1000s of other aircraft that have been privately created; I hope someone comes out with a new compiler soon.
I actually would like to develop a detailed 3D cocpit for the 23 but I would need to hook up with someone who can do the scripting; I used to work for Janes combat simulations for EA and creating the 3D aircraft and cockpits was my primary job.
Do you know anyone who might like to work on this together?
Thanks
David.
Hurry up and install Flight X Dave, I will fly Pav1 and you can jump into Pav2; will do some approaches to SFO
Bryce, I have had the YF23 dowloads for a while now but I am finding that it wont work in Flight X that well. I keep getting error messages saying that code for most of gauges and parts of the aircraft are not supported anymore? I wonder what this will mean for the 1000s of other aircraft that have been privately created; I hope someone comes out with a new compiler soon.
I actually would like to develop a detailed 3D cocpit for the 23 but I would need to hook up with someone who can do the scripting; I used to work for Janes combat simulations for EA and creating the 3D aircraft and cockpits was my primary job.
Do you know anyone who might like to work on this together?
Thanks
David.
