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  1. #1
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    PPG Concept temperature

    Guys,

    Now that I finished that D^#$ F-16 for Scott I'm getting ready to paint my Flash (the F-16 was practice for the Flash )

    My question is, what is the minimum temperature that I can paint the single stage PPG Concept? The advertized temps this weekend are going to be between 55 and 60. Can I paint at this temp or do I need to get a propane heater for my garage/paint booth?

    Thanks!
    Bob

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Sorry to inavde your thread. Do you know what is the major difference between Concept and Omni?

    Thanks,

    David
    Buying Jet Legend? Read here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11372496/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

  3. #3
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    David,

    I'm not 100% sure, but I think its mainly a quality/durability issue (as well as price) - similar to the paint lines you have in a single brand in latex or enamels. The AD F-16 I did is painted with Omni base and Concept clear over the top. I think there is a clear in the Omni line as well, but I had the Concept from a friend who had sprayed it on my Eurosport for me (the F-16 was the first time I did it myself). They went together fine on the F-16. The Flash is going to be sprayed with the single-stage Concept colors that I got from Radio South...

    Bob

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Bob , I have used the Concept single stage on my last Carden Build, I got the paint from Radio south also, The thing that is important is to use the correct reducer and hardener for the temps you are spraying in , II found it to be pretty critical in order to have it flow out correctly. I also have a Flash that is almost done , Its almost done its the all white version. I am going to do Base coat /clearcoat 2 stage. I will be leaving alot of the white showing through, and adding Gray and orange for a navy scheme then I will clearcoat the entire plane to eliminate the ridges at the color lines. I will be using Concept DCU 2021 clear, as I have used it before and really like it. Good Luck , Jack.
    Jack George

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Go for the cooler temp reducer and leave your propane heater away from your booth or garage or you won't have to worry about painting any more

  6. #6
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Hey Guys,
    As a side note, this was the F-16 that was "PRACTICE" for the Flash. I can only imagine how nice the Flash will come out. Nice job Bob.

    Marty

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  7. #7
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    ORIGINAL: Jet Lag

    Go for the cooler temp reducer and leave your propane heater away from your booth or garage or you won't have to worry about painting any more
    Well, the plan was to use the heater to heat up the garage and then turn it off before spraying to avoid blowing myself to kingdom-come...

    Bob

  8. #8
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Jack,

    The F-16 that Marty has posted here was done with the Omni base colors, Aeroloft graphics, and Concept 2021 clear. It worked great. The Flash is going to be mostly white as well, so I decided to try the single-stage Concept. I hope it comes out as well as the F-16 did...

    Bob

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    I've found that a 1500 watt heater for ten bucks at home depot will warm the garage up enough to paint. Make sure your compressor and the heater are on different circuits though. I was all set to paint and blam, I was in the dark, uh, so to speak

  10. #10
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Thanks Marty for posting the pictures and thanks rcumemeber for the suggestion on the heater. I'll be dropping by Lowes/Home Despot to check on the heater. I have some DT-860 reducer (60-70 degrees) and painting will commence right after I get back from Thanksgiving at the in-laws...

    Bob

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Bob , The f-16 looks great!! You should have no problem with the omni , just warm the garage and shoot it. Have Fun, Jack.
    Jack George

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Don't let the temp fall to 55 or below when painting with any isocynate based topcoat, the chemical reaction will STOP between the color and catalyst. [:@]The reducer speed selection is to have the paint flow the correct amount and then get out of the paint film at the correct rate. I'm a PPG distributor here in PA and do alot of technical work for the local autobody industry. I'd be happy to answer any painting questions you may have.

    Dan
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    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Guys

    Im going t order some PPG paint from Radio South............I am planning on using PPG clear no matter what I use for base color. What is the difference between Concpet Paint and Base Color Paint? Is the whole process different? Wich one is less hramful? My painting space is limited to my garage with the door fully open and a fan for ventilation.
    Buying Jet Legend? Read here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11372496/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

  14. #14
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    ORIGINAL: deltron

    Don't let the temp fall to 55 or below when painting with any isocynate based topcoat, the chemical reaction will STOP between the color and catalyst. [:@]The reducer speed selection is to have the paint flow the correct amount and then get out of the paint film at the correct rate. I'm a PPG distributor here in PA and do alot of technical work for the local autobody industry. I'd be happy to answer any painting questions you may have.

    Dan
    www.gocolours.com
    Dan,

    That's why I was going to heat the garage - just to give me some wiggle room above the 60 degrees mentioned for the reducer. How about if you paint it on right near 55 degrees and then after 15 to 20 minutes to out gas, moving it to a heated space to cure?

    Bob

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    SPLIT S's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Hi Bob,

    After the bulk of the solvent has evaporated ( doesn't take too long ) either move it into a heated area or kick the heater back on. Be positive the solvent has been evacuated from the area or it will be a Thanksgiving to really remember. The important thing to remember is to keep the plane in a stable temperature as the paint is curing. It doesn't have to be shirt sleeve warm but 65 to 70 will do the trick.
    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

  16. #16
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Falconwings,

    I'm not an expert for sure, but I've been asking the same questions myself lately so I'll give you my take on what I've learned. The really harmful paint are the ones with the isocynates in it. This includes any PPG Concept or Omni paint that finises to a gloss. This means the clear coat (DCU 2021 for the Concept line) AND the gloss single stage Concept paints. Note that single stage refers to the fact that its all in one coat - the color and the gloss finish, not a base coat and clear coat (which is called two-stage), but the single stage Concept is still three parts, paint, hardner, and reducer (thinner). Basically, if you have to put a hardner in it to cure, its bad for you. Read the contents to be sure - isocynates = can kill you = bad...

    As far as a base coat when you're going to top coat it with clear is concerned (the two-stage process), I've found that almost anything will work - but you better TEST it first to be sure. I've used Rustoleum spray paint from a can and the Omni base coat paints to go under the Concept clear. Both worked well although I think that the Omni base colors will hold up better against fading than the Rustoleum, but we'll see. I've also heard that some latex paints work as a base coat under the Concept clear, but I haven't tried it.

    The actual base colors from PPG are single part. That is, you only mix them with thinner to spray on and they dry by having the solvent evaporate. They are very easy to paint and although you should be careful with them, they're not as bad for you as the two-part, isocynate-based stuff. These base colors finish to flat, not gloss and are not very durable until they are clear coated.

    Like I said, the F-16 was painted with Omni base coat colors, the Aeroloft dry transfers were applied, and then the 2-part Concept 2021 clear was put over it all. It was so easy and worked so well that I'm probably going to use that for all my models from now on. I did however, decide to try the single-stage Concept colors on the Flash because most of the plane is going to remain the original white gelcoat, so clear coating the whole thing didn't make as much sense. We'll see how well they go on...

    Bob

  17. #17
    SPLIT S's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Falconwings,

    A little bit of a paint chemistry lesson here. Concept (DCC) is what is referred to as single stage; it does not require a clear. Color and gloss are in one package. DCC can be cleared but it must be allowed to set up from anywhere 2 hours for a solid color to 4 hours for a metallic color before you can clear it. This is where the basecoat color systems shine. Basecoat is just that - color - no gloss, no UV protection, no nothing. Basecoat color goes on very easy, dries extremely fast and can be fixed if something should go wrong before you clear. If you know you want to clear the plane, by all means use a true basecoat system. In PPG that would be OMNI MBC, MBP ; in PPG Shopline it would be JB or JBP and in PPG Deltron it would be DBC or DBU. All are similar, all have there pros and cons ( coverage vs. cost ).

    The harmful part of your question is a loaded one. ALL CATALYZED URETHANE REQUIRES THE RIGHT RESPIRATORS AND SPRAYING AREA. DO NOT EVER SPRAY A ISOCYNATE BASED PAINT WITHOUT THE AIR FLOW AND RESPIRATOR. Some people are susceptible to becoming allergic to iso based paints. That is for LIFE. There is no such thing as "Which one is worse". Be sure you understand the warnings ( they are now all over the cans - no more directions on them ) before you use them.

    Dan
    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

  18. #18
    rhklenke's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    OK, thanks Dan! What I've done before is paint it in the garage and then move it to the workshop (heated with a heat pump) to cure overnight...

    Bob

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Bob beat me to it and he pretty much hit the mark exactly. Be careful and use some common sense when handling the products and you'll be fine.

    Dan
    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    There is a ventilation hood designed specifically for painting with iso's for sale in the market place. I have owned a couple of different models over the years, and they are well worth the investment.

  21. #21
    SPLIT S's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    A couple hundred dollars for a supplied air hood vs. a lung transplant isn't a bad idea.

    Dan
    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

  22. #22

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature


    ORIGINAL: deltron

    Falconwings,

    A little bit of a paint chemistry lesson here. Concept (DCC) is what is referred to as single stage; it does not require a clear. Color and gloss are in one package. DCC can be cleared but it must be allowed to set up from anywhere 2 hours for a solid color to 4 hours for a metallic color before you can clear it. This is where the basecoat color systems shine. Basecoat is just that - color - no gloss, no UV protection, no nothing. Basecoat color goes on very easy, dries extremely fast and can be fixed if something should go wrong before you clear. If you know you want to clear the plane, by all means use a true basecoat system. In PPG that would be OMNI MBC, MBP ; in PPG Shopline it would be JB or JBP and in PPG Deltron it would be DBC or DBU. All are similar, all have there pros and cons ( coverage vs. cost ).

    The harmful part of your question is a loaded one. ALL CATALYZED URETHANE REQUIRES THE RIGHT RESPIRATORS AND SPRAYING AREA. DO NOT EVER SPRAY A ISOCYNATE BASED PAINT WITHOUT THE AIR FLOW AND RESPIRATOR. Some people are susceptible to becoming allergic to iso based paints. That is for LIFE. There is no such thing as "Which one is worse". Be sure you understand the warnings ( they are now all over the cans - no more directions on them ) before you use them.

    Dan
    When using DCC colors I spray full coverage with DCC, then a final full wet coat w/DCC and PREMIXED clear combined @ 1:1. It buffs easier, you remove less color when color sanding and protects the single stage color from fading.

    Most painters don't use eye protection (same here) iso's can also be absorbed into the bloodstream through the eyes. Iso's are serious stuff...be sure and use a chemical respirator and NOT a partical respirator. It's not like the old days...back then all we inhaled was lead...

  23. #23
    SPLIT S's Avatar
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Ahhh lead. Careful, it's still in there. [:'(]

    That's another good option too for clearing DCC. We usually sell Concept when we have either old single stage restoration work or very large vehicles where base clear is too time and cost prohibitive. But there's nothing quite like a polished Concept job in solid colors for depth and gloss!!

    If you go to www.ppgrefinish.com you will find all the product bulletins, msds sheets, technical how-to's and more. When used correctly the finishes are outstanding!
    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    I've used that method for years with solid color single stage. I rarely shoot metallic colors in single stage but when I do, I finish with at least two coats of clear without mixing DCC and clear together. It's tough to "nib" trash from metallic single stage paints without "browning" the metallic in the paint...same problem occurs if you miss your re-coat window and have to open the surface to re-coat. It saves ALOT of headache if, when spraying a metallic paint job, to just use base/clear. Just an FYI

    Yeah, I know it's still got lead...and it doesn't smell as good either...

  25. #25
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    RE: PPG Concept temperature

    Thanks guys, I think Im going with the PPG Base Coat paint and then give the model to a friend of mine to shoot the clear (he's got all the right tools for that!)

    I've deffinetely learned something today.

    dAVID
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