petepowell

2 Weeks ..............pheeeeew! admiration.

good luck

PJPJts

Ron101

My Feedback: (22)

that adaptor looks nice jet junk..
do you know how many watts you are getting on 12s? how many amps?

Ron

blackrider_gr

The first molds will not be scale with rivets and stuff because i want to see how it will fly and make the necessary changes on the airfoil accordingly.
For sure 2 weeks are not enough but they will be very productive!

skyhawknut

My Feedback: (3)

Ron,
The Hacker outrunner in the Byron fan will not survive on 12S

On 11S it makes about 2700 watts/ around 65-70 amps, and your getting around 19,500 rpm - which translates to about 12 - 12.5 lbs of thrust. That's the same as the OS 91 setup.

Ron101

My Feedback: (22)

That's not too bad.. that could make for a nice conversion
good work

balsaeater

I have a near similar fan 10 lbs for 9s to 10 s and it will go with tango 45 on a single motor version of my Blade 11

But realistically the big problem for me for my DF or EDF projects is I like to take them holidays on the Airliners as sports equipment and visit lots of other clubs which have no support equipment and the EDF falls foul of more issues for flying on airliners and when it comes to recharging refueling issues

The EDF projects have to have back up NiMH packs as no airline limits on those packs
but only one pack of Lipo can travel on airliners not three or four 9s packs what you need for big EDF projects

(or roughly 10 cells of 3000mha total in one two three packs what is called 20 grams equivalent )

The cycle life of lipos at EDF where high amps make lots of heat and shorter lipo lifes 50 to 200 cycles is another large cost factor to build in when comparing DF to EDF
However using DF with 30% nitro is certainly not cheap in Europe double USA costs often or even cheap for the USA

And often to charge a 9s5000 pack what is typical for a large EDF project requires a IC generator on site preferably 2500w and not whimpy 1000w and best I can tell only german clubs have electric power on tap at model flying fields

So for me its not logical to get involved 10s to 12s EDF projects at this time and the Glow fuels are available in most every country including 30% nitro and if the oil 25% required for DF isn't sufficient best I can tell you can carry extra oil with you if the extra oil isn't available there but so far never needed to that for engines like 4 strokes and 2 strokes when traveling

So until renting generators in holiday locations is easy peasy really cheap its a non runner to travel light with EDF planes and so you have to travel heavy like in cars with trailers and several days driving or pay top dollar to ship tons of gear with you on the airliners and the glow fuel model planes can travel fairly light and you buy the heavy weight stuff fuel at the destination location

So for me my fleet is divided into mostly electric for local use under 90 sized with some bigger glows 180 etc and for holidays is some smaller electric pylon 400 f5d limited with mostly nimh and nicads with a few suitable 3s packs of lipos and then glow 25 to 180 for the rest and buy glow fuel locally and charge the planes electric from the rented car

I chose the airline with the most lax overweight policy and the time for flying carefully to go in off peak times as often I am 50% overweight in al baggages from sports bags to carry on to normal suitcases but so far been lucky never been hit for excess baggage


My big problem if I ever get the bread together to buy a second hand jet cat 160 is its getting difficult to impossible to Jet fuel at most European airports now and that type of motor uses ~14.5 onz pm thats like one pint a minute
Also there are problems to get insurance to transport more than one gallon of fuel in rented cars in destination locations so you have already to consider to do multiple journeys doing bigger glow like DF which can be 3 onz per minute

So this year and next is the DF years which I can just about afford before getting involved in turbines in 2011 if budgets allow but would say that DF has been around a long time since 1980s era so it is well proven predicable solutions when you want to get ~12lb ~6KG efflux thrust it is still a VERY VERY strong contender to be considered for lots of modelers who like me cant always afford the luxury of a turbines or the higher cost outlays of EDF in this time
For sub ~ 9l

junkjet

My Feedback: (55)

Thanks for answering the question Skyhawknut. I was looking for the breakdowns on the info from bruffs testing and flying data. I have not flown this yet. bruff gave me the plans for further development and production.

donniercjet

My Feedback: (10)

(However using DF with 30% nitro is certainly not cheap in Europe double USA costs often or even cheap for the USA )

why are you using 30% nitro??

skyhawknut

My Feedback: (3)

No sweat Junk!

I have Bob's original setup going into my Byron A-4. I used to fly the Byron ICDF a lot, but too messy and noisey. I'm following your version of the adapter and it is sweet! Keep up the good work!

Euan

Hello,
thought i would post a couple of pictures of my re furbished F20 tigershark,originally built in the mid 1980s it was flown for around 15 years before i sold it to a mate.
I got it back last year and have since used it for a flying test bed for a E turbax and a cheap hobby city fan/motor combo.
I still missed the sound of my old icdf engines so after obtaining a very early thorjet fan and a Picco 45 /macs pipe i have put it back to as it should be,i spent a long time cleanning up the fan re balancing it and making an engine cover from a blue foam mould.
The model weighs 8lbs on fixed u/c so should fly fine.
The model is all wood and covered in regular film built from the Thorjet plan,perhaps we can start a vintage jets thread?
cheers Euan.

balsaeater

I Haven t settled on what % nitro to use even its cost is high at 30% (weight not volume which would be ~25% )but the others in the club all using OS90 Ramtec where I am have all gone back to 30% (weight not volume which would be ~25% ) as the easiest fuel to use compared to other amounts(I supect they have less compression and don't want to fork out on new pistons and liners and keep trying to sell me their DF unless this summer they arrive minus the planes having sold them off )

Some did do 5% and 10% but being old hands figure that a few flights a year now the 30% wasn't worth the problems cost ratio issues most of them now mostly fly electric EDf 900 and 1000mm with a few flights DF 1200mm to still keep in the glow DF grove

Yes nitro in Europe is mad money often $80 a USA gallon and the methanol neat is often $15 a USA gallon with synthetic oil at $70 a USA gallon so we pay often easily two times maybe even up to four times the USA costs for high nitro fuels

The DF plane for me will be mostly used on holidays and the fuel costs are a not the big costs compared to paying $100 for carrying sports gear on the plane to get there and the $40 a day car rental to get to the flying fields

And the rest of the year a few flights in between lots of flights with EDF or similar its not the biggest cost at $3 a flight compared to mayby $2 a flight with lowwer nitro

But I will be trying different amounts of nitro and hoping 10% will work OK for me

A cup of coffee in the local cheap Resterant cost $2 and a lot more in others in fancy places so its not ahuge crisis if 30% nitro is needed

Balsaeater

Gordon W

[quote]ORIGINAL: balsaeater

Have you looked at A123 batteries? Aren't they as acceptable as NiMH to airlines? Granted the capacity is amall at 2.3Ah/cell, the on-load terminal voltage at 2.7V/cell is lower than the 3.6V - 3.7V/cell of lipos, and the weight at 70g or so a cell is fairly heavy. But if you figure an 8S1P A123 weighs the same as a 6S1P 3700 lipo (which it replaces voltage-wise) and provides abour 2/3 the flight time as all the capacity is usable as opposed to only 80% for a decent life from lipos (which is what I find), they aren't all that bad when you can recharge at 10A in less than half the time of lipos. In fact even NiMH are supposed to take an hour to charge to stop 'em overheating on charge so A123 beat those too. And if you make your A123 packs from the innards of Dewalt drill packs bought on Ebay they are half the cost of lipos.

I imagine that you could recharge them from the car battery with the engine running.

You might be familiar with this website already, but here goes anyway:

http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm

I'll soon be flying my Fox Composites Hawk on a Stumax fan and 14S2p A123s. Will let you know how it goes.

Gordon

balsaeater

yes I am always monertering the whole EDF questions and solutions and in the long run it will probably be the best long term solutions

I have no information to guarantee me that a123 cells are classed as NiMh for aviation transport in this time and so I cant run that risk as the cells have the dirty word lithium in the chemistry so I will have to keep an eye on that situation

The short term issues are the A123 presently at ~2.2MHA are a tad low but in time might increase to more interesting 3000 or 4000MHa on 70 grams
The present feild generation solutions using a low rental cost typical rented 3 door compact car 1000cc with a typical 35 Amp lead acid battery and a typical 35 amp alternator in a nhot climate where i tend to go is formula to grill the alternator running the engine for charging larger packs exceeding 3s 3200 MHA Kokam which I tend to use

When you get to recharging a 14s 2p A123 pack at the home flying feilds which with multiple ZIP charger could be recharged in less than 15 minutes this can be done with a suitable cheap ALDI LIDL $500 £300 3KW generator

Even with slowing down recharging rates to more conservative 1/2 hour or one hour recharge rates for a A123 14s2p pack the rented car alternator would be under severe strain for long periods some few hours in a day and that unfortunately when I have seen similar power demand scenarios done in the marine trade this has a nasty habit to grill the alternators

Having already had issues with car rentals abroad in Spain Greece and similar which were non modeling related issues such as routine flat battery call outs or melted tyres from blow outs whatever its really I promise you not worth trying to find out how many rental car alternators you can burn out while on holidays

The idea to buy a $500 £300 3kw generator at every holiday location or similar high rental costs makes it a non runner in this time

However in the years 2015 I can be sure to be able for car rental to be able to get a HYBRID at low costs such as a Pruis type or smaller versions where the on board 30 KW or even maybe smaller 10Kw battery packs generation abilities will make A123 or similar solutions a no brainer and glow fuel options will probably not be popular


So in this time until we reach NERVANA ~2015 I have to look the cost benefit hassle weight ratios that exist in this time for each trip I hope to do
So the plans for the next holiday in 2008 Agean sea look like I will have my My blade 11 (and the electric outfit stripped out and left at home ) with a temporary glow 2 of ~40 engines or single ~ 60 to ~90 motor (or if the second hand sale goes through at cheap eneogh price a 4KG pulse jet )

balsaeater

yes I am always monitoring the whole EDF questions and solutions and in the long run it will probably be the best long term solutions

I have no information to guarantee me that a123 cells are classed as NiMh for aviation transport in this time.
Therefore I cant run that risk as the cells have the dirty word lithium in the chemistry .
I will have to keep an eye on that situation

The short term issues are the A123 presently at ~2.2MHA are a tad low but in time might increase to more interesting 3000 or 4000MHa on 70 grams
The present field generation solutions using a low rental cost typical rented 3 door compact car 1000cc with a typical 35 Amp lead acid battery and a typical 35 amp alternator in a hot climate where I tend to go is probably a formula to grill the alternator running the car engine for charging larger packs exceeding 3s 3200 MHA Kokam which I tend to use

When you get to do recharging a 14s2p A123 pack at the home flying fields which with multiple ZIP chargers or similar could be recharged in less than 15 minutes and this can be done with a suitable cheap ALDI LIDL $500 £300 3KW generator or large car truck alternator

Even with slowing down recharging rates to more conservative 1/2 hour or one hour recharge rates for a A123 14s2p pack the small compact rented car alternator could be under severe strain for long periods some few hours in a day
That unfortunately when I have seen similar power demand scenarios done in the marine trade has a nasty habit to grill the alternators.

Having already had issues with car rentals abroad in Spain Greece and similar which were non modeling related issues such as routine flat battery call outs or melted tyres from blow outs whatever its my experience really I promise you it is not worth trying to find out how many rental car alternators you can burn out while on holidays

The idea to buy a $500 £300 3kw generator at every holiday location or similar high rental costs makes it a non runner in this time

However in the years 2015 I can be sure to be able for car rental to be able to get a HYBRID at low costs such as a Pruis type or smaller versions where the on board 30 KW or even maybe smaller 10Kw battery packs generation abilities will make A123 or similar solutions a no brainer and glow fuel options will probably not be popular


So in this time until we reach NERVANA ~2015 I have to look the cost benefit hassle weight ratios that exist in this time for each trip I hope to do
So the plans for the next holiday in 2008 Agean sea look like I will have my My blade 11 (and the electric outfit stripped out and left at home ) with a temporary glow 2 o

Meekskin

I thought this thread was started to cover glow fuel ducted fans and not electric. Seems like the thread is being hijacked to me. I was very interested in the discussion, but could care less about electric ducted fans. Lets get the discussion back to glow fuel ducted fans planes.

Steven H

Hello everyone,

I'm really enjoying this thread. I have about eight flights on my Byron F-16. It is my first jet. I am very happy with it so far other than the long take off roll from a grass field. The thrust tube somehow destroyed itself while I was out of town for awhile. It looked like it was run over by a car, but I think that the fuel ate it up? Not sure but anyway I need a new one. Does anyone have one thay want to get rid of? Or if I had to make one how would I do it and what materials should I use?

Thanks,

Steve

Tomcat_104

My Feedback: (42)

Hey Steve,

I had a TGA F-15 and lost the thrust tube during a move. I couldn't find one so I made one out of .15" Lexan fom a local plastics house. That was in 2001 and 7 years, 125 flights and 1 stroke later it's still doing fine. I don't know what they originally used but Lexan worked fine for me.

David

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

They originally used Lexan. If you're going to make one I suggest Mylar. It's stronger, lighter and less brittle. The original one in my old Mig 15 lasted about 40 flights. I made a new one out of drafting mylar and it was still holding up well when it went in about 100 flights later.

Joe

Meekskin

joeflyer, what did you use to join the mylar together? glass cloth or ?? I may need one for my starfire II.

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

CA. I had about 1/4" overlap, roughed up the shiny side with some fine sandpaper, then applied the CA. Make sure your seam is on the top.

Mylar works well with a Byron fan. For a tractor fan I'd use something stiffer like a thin fiberglass sheet, similar to the polyply that BVM sells.

Joe

Steven H

Where would I purchase mylar?

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

Either a plastics supply or drafting supply place.

mafrasca

Hi Meekskin,

I originally started this thread to cover Ducted Fans (Electric or Gas). I was annoyed with the idea that you had to buy a $$$turbine$$$ to fit into the jet scene. Although I have gas ducted fans, I have been exploring EDF recently due to their performance on LiPo cells. I still think the market has a fair way to go in terms of decent LiPo prices but this is all a matter of time. Charging at the field is an issue, but maybe we'll get to a stage where we can charge multiple packs at home then go fly.

Having said this I still like gas DF's for their simplicity and the fact that I can still tinker with the engine.

enjoy the thread.

regards,

m

www.injetdesigns.com

USSCAT

Steven H.,

I bought a roll from dick blick art store locally, try www.dickblick.com it comes in various thickness, .003 to .006 should work.

Regards,
Mike.

Gordon W

Well if ever you change your mind we EDF'ers are always ready to help

Gordon