Jackjet

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If everyone would follow the Law, to the letter, than millions of people would be going to Jail tonight because they just had or
Preformed oral se%... And that is illegal in many states. (not anyone on this list)


Eddie Weeks
http://www.variablepitchhobbies.com/

Please pass the mustard........................LOTFLMAO !!!

Jackjet

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

The point is not that it doesn't go on, or shouldn't go on, or that the Feds are going to swoop down on every little RC picture taker. The point is, that they CAN shut you down until you get a CoA, and if anybody makes an issue of your operations, they WILL - read the link. That is the consequence, and trust me, its a painful process and not likely to be successful unless you have federal agency to sponsor your request.

Anyway, this is an old discussion and not to the point of the thread, so I'm out of here. If I were flying UAVs without a CoA, I'd keep doing it, but I'd also keep my mouth shut about it and certainly not post that fact on here...

Bob

wojtek

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Jackjet

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THIS is the reason I like to fly at the dry lake beds- NO P.C. bull S. to put up with..............fly as FAST as YOU WANT !!!

Jackjet

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

I contacted HQ today to see what AMA's official position is on this subject.
Haven't heard back yet but I'm sure I will on Monday.
BRG,
Jon

airbuspilot2

Hi Enrique,

Great news I will do everything I can to be there

About AMA or FAA laws or restriction, I have to said that Brasil is a free country and they have their own laws so AMA or FAA don`t have anything to do with people flying real fast over brasil. Maybe USA citizen are not free to fly fast but there is a lot of more people in the rest of world that are absolutely free to assist the event and fly as fast as they can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Billy

My Feedback: (15)

Of course they will be against it and tell you that anyone who participates will be subject to termination. But like I said before that is all they can really do.

Gordon Mc

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I've done that in the past .. and gotten multiple contradictory answers from them. It basically comes across as there not being any cohesive AMA position on the subject, so that you get different answers depending on who you ask, when you ask it, and what the phase of the moon is.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

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Gordon Mc

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According to the JPO and the AMA, the difference is that neither the DMV nor the FAA is providing you with insurance cover which always applies while you are a member, no matter whether you want it to or not, and no matter which country or private strip or desert you are flying in.

The whole issue boils down to whether you can "opt out" of AMA coverage at any point either explicitly via notification to the AMA or implicitly via your actions. The AMA's answer on that varies not only depending on the day you ask, but also on exactly how you word the question.

e.g. Let's say that it's an odd-numbered day, such that the AMA position is "If you are an AMA member then you are always covered by AMA insurance and must always obey the AMA rules & regs no matter what you fly, where you fly, and no matter what other insurance you may have, personal or commercial". Then you ask them "So, what about those AMA members whose day -job involves flying remotely controlled aircraft for the movie business, or for a UAV company etc., and said aircraft violates the heck out of the AMA weight and / or speed limits - are you going to discipline them ?" ... the response is "It's not a problem, because they have their own insurance cover and AMA will not be involved" .. hang on a minute - AMA just said that AMA insurance ALWAYS applies, and that you can not opt out of it explicitly or implicitly in order to rely on your own personal or comercial insurance, yet when this example is presented to them they say " no problem ... our insurance is not in force because the guy has separate insurance" ??? There simply is a totally absurd lack of logic in the way that the AMA constantly contradicts itself in this regard. IMO, this shows that they have no cohesive position on the subject, and simply throw out meaningless and contradictory statements in the hope that you will go away and stop asking questions.


AMA has a 200 mph limit - MAAC does not. I asked the AMA what rule applies if I go to fly in Canada under the reciprocal insurance agreement - the rules from the AMA, or the rules from MAAC. They umm'd and ahh'd and I got completely different answers from the various people that the AMA asked to answer my question. After a while they decided that the most popular answer was probably that the AMA rules apply, since the AMA was providing the insurance, and that if MAAC were providing the insurance, I could fly by the MAAC rules. "Fine", says I "So based on your answer, if I join the MAAC as well as the AMA, I can fly by the MAAC rules, and go over 200 mph while in Canada ?" Yes, they said. Then I pointed out that this contradicted their prior statement that if you are an AMA member then you must obey the AMA rules no matter where you are and what other insyrance you have. "Oh", says the AMA ... basically, they have only halfway thought-out answers that are totally ridiculous IMO.

They really need to think this through ... or pay someone with some better logic and deduction skills to think it through and come up with a coherent and meaningful position, and present it to the membership at large - not just the turbine / giant scale etc guys ... I guarantee you that a very substantial proportion of AMA members are under the impression that they can elect to deliberately fly outside the AMA rules if they are simply willing to forego insuance cover. I hear this all the time from racing guys, 3D'ers, etc.

Gordon

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

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EddieWeeks

Excellent point Gordon.. The UAV companies I work with are flying 150 lb planes for 8 hours or so. They are taken off
By a experienced RC pilot with a Futaba type transmitter, fly around on autopilot for hours, fly home and are landed by
An RC pilot..

Most of these RC pilots have current AMA status, yet some of the planes they fly are not AMA legal. (150lbs)

This is not a small number of people, 60 miles away they are building 60-70 lbs target drones, flown by
Really good AMA pilots.. Blasted out of the sky by US marines.

I don’t know what this means but a LOT of people fly non AMA planes all the time, HERE IN THE US.. !!

Eddie Weeks

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

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F106A

My Feedback: (2)

The questions I asked were:
Regarding Mr. Maroney's post during the last discussion on this subject, does AMA monitor their members' comments on the various discussion forums and if so, under what provisions of the AMA charter, policies, etc, can a member be "cautioned" or disciplined as stated by Mr. Maroney in his post.
Does the insurance provide coverage internationally? If not, then it would seem that AMA would have no authority over the member once he left the US, as the insurance is not in force. Remember the Dave Brown flight accross the Atlantic? AMA's response was the insurance was not in effect, therefore no violations of the safety code.
I've always got straight answers from the powers at HQ, so we'll see what their position is on this matter.
BRG,
Jon

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

A bit yes, but IMO it's still relevant to Enrique's event, otherwise I would not have brought the point up here in the first place... I'd really love for Enrique's event to be a blast, and for it to once again be a totally safe enterprise that demonstrates that jets don't suddenly become dangerous when their speed crops up from 200 to 201 mph, or even when it goes as fast as prop planes currently go with the AMA's blessing.

Conversely, I'd hate to see any US based attendees lose their waiver or have any other such problems just because the AMA found out that said attendees were deliberately busting 200 mph in a scenario where the pilot didn't think the AMA rules had any bearing.

Enrique could perhaps also help by explaining what insurance criteria his event may require from participants.

Gordon

CARBUNCLE

One other point that may be of use here since we're laying stuff on the table so to speak, is that the ama also says no "racing" of turbine a/c.... And, as in salt-flat cars which are "raced" one vehicle at a time, could one r/c jet in the air being monitered for it's highest or even lowest speed be considered racing? Or could two or more r/c jets in the air flying in circles, diving, or climbing straight up together (one of my favorites), be considered "racing"?.. And even though there is not much if any interest in the rules about afterbuners or thrust reversers, etc., should they not be allowed- at all? ,.. Will they allow us VTOL?, Eddie?... My opinion is- going over 200mph should be allowed but limited to who and where, kinda like the over 50lb rules., so that Richy Rich could not just go out and fly his new mach .5 bmt target drone thru the crowd.. I think talking about this stuff is good, knowledge spreading is always good,.. and might be a good thing for us in the way of better future ama rules... Sry to post futher off topic, let's start a new thread and let Enrique have his thread back guys? Anybody up for that? .

erbroens

Guys, as Gordon said you are not getting off topic by discussing this issue here, please feel free to respectfully post your points of view, as well the AMA or any other organization opinions about this issue. I will also try to explain with my limited english how we think here to run a jet event with a acceptable level of safety.

First of all, there is no a turbine waiver system in Brazil: You only need to notify to ABA (our AMA equivalent) that you are going into jets, and your anual insurance will be increased as well your fee. Also our club made a additional insurance contract for the 3 days of the last event, as well a safety officer and a ambulance just in case. We got about a little under 2000 people in our last event and we got prepared for almost every health issue.

About the racing question: Of course jet racing with more than two aircraft in the air, or low level flying in a pylon like curse track would be dangerous, so the AMA is right in forbidding this.

However, flying one jet at a time, in a "framed" attitude, without needing to fly into a radar gun or close to the ground, well away from the pilot stations, pits and espectators is thrilling and in my opinion (as well anybody that I asked on the last event too) much safer than the average jet meets wich have 6 airplanes at the same time doing low passes on the middle of the runway at 200 mph.

The only extra risk factor on a jet speed event is that a airframe could desintegrate doing the runs, however if the plane if flown in this correct fashion, it would be harmless for the people on ground . Ironically I witnessed many desintegrations of airplanes in normal events, and they are more dangerous in this situations because they are unexpected!

Another good thing that happened in our last event was that many people learned a lot about setting up correctly a jet for this speeds,
in special one local builder that participated in the event, learned a lot about this subject and he applied this knowledge in many jets
he assembled later.. making them safer to his customers. So at least from this point of view, jet speed events could help the jet comunity have safer aiplanes...

About flying to the crowd, if someone do it at 200 mph or at mach .5 he will be severily punished here, no matter if the guy is richy rich, a five star general, or the pope... he will be kicked out of our club at record speeds!

Enrique

AMA234

My Feedback: (3)

Dont forget to post the crash videos!

rjbob

My Feedback: (8)

What insurance company are you with? Better get your insurance somewhere else!


This was a reply to a post that has been edited and is now no longer valid.
My apologies.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

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JMCJET

Olá Henrique.

Este assunto está a ficar desinteressante!

Podes dar as dimensões do equipamento que é necessário meter a bordo e respectivo peso?

Qual Ă© o aeroporto internacional mais prĂłximo de Curitiba?

Estão a preparar algum tipo de apoio- combustivel, gás, oleo, baterias, facilidades de alojamento, transportes.....- a pilotos que possam ir da Europa?

Que formalidades são necessárias na alfandega para fazer a importação temporária dos aviões e radios?

Bem, qualquer outro assunto que aches pertinente para se poder ponderar a possibilidade de estar presente na vossa prova, que, ao que sei, Ă© unica no mundo!

FORÇA E CUMPRIMENTOS

erbroens

Well, even If they happen this time (no speed related crashes in last event) I wouldn´t post them without the permission of the part involved, and unless this person ask to me do it so, I wouldn´t ask for it!

Enrique

erbroens

Ola JMCjet,Que bom tomar conhecimento do seu interesse! O equipamento padrao e um garmin handheld, ou seja pode ser fixado sem problemas em quase qualquer parte do aviao, preferencialmente o mais longe possivel do receptor e antena e fixado com velcro. Voce poderia trazer o seu aviao que nos podemos aconselha-lo na instalaçao.

Quanto ao combustivel e ao material volatil, (gas para a partida) voce nao precisaria se preocupar, Ha jet A-1 e aeroshell 500 disponiveis, assim como gas canisters localmente.. Quanto a facilidade de deslocamento, estaremos dando o maior apoio possivel para visitantes internacionais, igualmente com ferramentas, bancada de trabalho ou eventuais reparos, etc. Bem proximo ao clube, existe um centro gastronomico com hoteis (como o Holyday Inn) que tornariam a sua estada agradavel. Curitiba tem o seu prĂłpio aeroporto internacional, mas acredito que seja necessario fazer uma escala em Guarulhos (Sao Paulo) para a melhor conexao aerea.

Quanto as formalidades necessarias para a liberacao alfandegaria, pretendo me informar com um despachante, e verificar se ha alguma
maneira de torna-la mais facil e rapida para os participantes de nosso evento.

E sim, aparentemente esta prova e unica no mundo e este ano prentendemos torna-la ainda mais bonita... e ficariamos muito contentes
com a sua participaçao!

Um abraço, Enrique.

http://www.holidaycwb.com.br/holiday_sf/index.asp