Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

As long as he is in the right clique his waiver will remain untouched.
[h=3][/h]

70 ragtop

My Feedback: (24)

Thanks Jon!
There's a new thread up all about the positives from the event with pix and videos This one needs some of that as well!

Done with this thread. Same guy up on his soapbox, stirring the pot, and spewing wisdom all over again.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

WTR the crash and the "rules" discussion, this recent column in Model Aviation is apropos...

This incident will be reviewed and the applicable lessons will be learned to try and mitigate the risks in a reasonable manner. At the same time, more rules just for the sake of rules is not the answer.

Bob

dionysusbacchus

My Feedback: (25)

Great post Bob, I loved that article when it came out. I've definitely felt the impact of over restrictive rules by the do-gooders. Speaking of rules and laws that make no sense, the do-gooders have much bigger fish to fry if they look at the statistics.... like going after marijuana!

Average deaths per year
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Tobacco[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]435,000[SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]365,000[SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Alcohol[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]85,000 [SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Microbial Agents[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]75,000[SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Toxic Agents[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]55,000[SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Motor Vehicle Crashes[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26,347[SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32,000[SUP]2[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Suicide[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30,622[SUP]3[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Incidents Involving Firearms[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29,000[SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Homicide[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20,308[SUP]4[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sexual Behaviors[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20,000[SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17,000[SUP]1, 5[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7,600[SUP]6[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Marijuana[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[SUP]7[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

mackeyjones

Thats the trouble with rules...people stop using their own grey matter to actually think because rules cover everything. If it doesnt then they make another rule, until there are so many rules that no one understands what the rules actually mean, and then you need 50 high paid lawyers to consult themseves to decide that the rules wont stop stupid.

erbroens

This post puts all things in perspective,,,


Kids, dont smoke, drink or eat too much junk... also stay away from drugs , dont be a jerk and try to drive decently and be careful with firearms... and have fun flying jets all weekend!


Enrique

jeffharris75

Mature,logical, self policing groups have been the key to success in my life. At the beginning of the ultralight movement I watched a guy hand prop a rotax 532 with no assistance. He opened the master, opened the throttle to 100%, walk to the rear of his Kolb Mark 3 pusher, pull the prop through and........
I was in my tent when his plane sailed over the camping area, closely missing campers and kerplunking in a huge oak tree.

This cat whines about his lost investment and seemed to miss the wisdom offered by club members. He left that day and we never saw him again. Fine by us.

I have not lost friends to rc but 9 in general aviation between 1983 and 2001. Regardless of what we fly aviation is unforgiving of recklessness, incapacity and neglect. I am very pleased when my friends care enough to step up and suggest I take a break.

franklin_m

I'm happy to see that some are talking about learning lessons from this and putting mitigations in place. Whether one calls them mitigations or some other word, mitigations most often come in the form of rules. If people feel better by calling them mitigations rather than rules, so be it. The point is to learn from these. Looking back at past AMA EC minutes, it appears that injury claims may be on the rise. It may be insurance rates that drive changes to be behaviors faster than regulatory groups.

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Was the crash landing due to mech failure or just dumb thumbs??
Vin...

jmpups

My Feedback: (1)

You have no clue of what you are talking about. The jet that crashed was 50 ft above the runway and stalled and screwed itself into the ground.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Increased insurance premiums will certainly change things in a hurry. Unlike the regulatory groups, the insurance companies won't be holding public comment periods either.

franklin_m

In the February issue of MA, page 134, the AMA EVP asks everyone to focus on "adherence to AMA's rules". He goes on to say that compliance will "help reduce the self-insured portion of liability insurance claims that the AMA has to pay every year." Self-insured means that money for those claims come directly from AMA's checking account. They come from the same pool of money that could otherwise be used for flying site assistance etc.

But then again, there's that pesky word "rule" again.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks franklin_m. Exactly what I was looking for. Be curious to know what the annual charges against that account have been over the past 10-15 years.

I spent years working for a major R&D company and occasionally spent time in the laboratory facilities. Safety was everywhere. There was zero tolerance for any safety infractions of any kind at any level in the organization.

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

His 3 axis gyro failed. So I heard.

basimpsn

My Feedback: (5)

"His 3 axis gyro failed. So I heard"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMF0gIy-8xI

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

We you a witness to the crash??

kelly vallee

What brand was he using for a Gyro?

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I would take the "3 axis gyro failed" as a total troll until it is substantiated with *facts* from those actually involved...

Bob

franklin_m

Thanks. I know there are some out there that "get it" and see where we're headed if we aren't willing to take a hard look at "the way we've always done it."

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Unfortunately, there aren't many of us with that type of "safety" mindset and the way it stands now IMHO there's little accountability for those who don't follow the established safety codes.

franklin_m

That's key: rules without enforcement (or consequences) are meaningless. That is something that many miss. One doesn't have to look very hard on YouTube to see sanctioned events where there's little if any distance between the spectators and the flight line, where's there's planes taking off directly from the pit area, non-pilots or helpers beyond the spectator line, etc.

Also, I couldn't help but notice that in the last year alone, insurance payouts have gone up 228% - and I can't find anything that says whether than includes self-insured payments or not. Compare that rate of increase with a membership increase of around 3%. Could it be that so many big and fast airplanes being approved are causing more and/or more serious injuries? Things that make you go hummmmmm.

gunradd

My Feedback: (9)

So many trolls on this forum now...........

It was an accident plain and simple. The Pilot is a very good friend of mine and a all around great guy. The only thing I would like to see is the pilot stations moved back about at least 6 feet. In my opinion if you cant stand back 10 feet from the runway and land on it you should not be flying jets in the first place. On my home field the pilot stations are back around 10 feet at least and that's a good safety margin.

As far as the event it was very well ran and Frank always does a good job. I still remember he had to jump on Mac Hodges a few years back at top gun because with the crosswind he was getting to close to the crowd. It does not matter who you are if you are flying unsafe Frank is going to put a stop to it. His events are top notch. Also all low passes have to be made over a gravel road about 10 feet north of the runway so that's also another nice buffer zone and allot more then you get at other events.

sysiek

My Feedback: (176)

+1 and maybe one extra row off safety net

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

It might be helpful for some to review the meaning of "accident".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident


An accident or a mishap is an incidental and unplanned event or circumstance, often with lack of intention or necessity. It usually implies a generally negative outcome which might have been avoided or prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence. Injury prevention refers to activities designed to foresee and avoid accidents.

Accidents of particularly common types (crashing of automobiles, events causing fire, etc.) are investigated to identify how to avoid them in the future. This is sometimes called root cause analysis, but does not generally apply to accidents that cannot be deterministically predicted. A root cause of an uncommon and purely random accident may never be identified, and thus future similar accidents remain "accidental."

DiscoWings

My Feedback: (76)

Going back to what happened to the jet, what are the possible scenarios:

1) Radio Failure / Electronic Equipment failure such as Gyros, RX, Batts or Servos
2) Medical failure with linkage, and or issue with the air frame
3) Stall / Pilot error / Human error

In my experiences its generally No. 3 or No. 2 rarely is it No.1. Does the pilot who flies post on RCU?