Please justify ??
#27
RE: Please justify ??
ORIGINAL: tamjets
Jeremy,
Few more you can add on the lists...
Time of R&D and testing....
Jet require a lot of customer support after sale..
Jeremy,
Few more you can add on the lists...
Time of R&D and testing....
Jet require a lot of customer support after sale..
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
Well, there's a few reasons that I can think of:
1. Cost of molds, there are far more molds to be made for a jet than most aerobatic airplanes. Most aerobatic airplanes are limited to a cowl and wheel pants for fiberglass parts. Molds are expensive to make, that cost finds it's way into the kit.
2. Limited market, for every one jet that is sold, there are probably 10 or more aerobatic airplanes sold. Look back to point number 1, that means that the cost of the molds being divided into the kits has to be higher per aircraft than if it was an aerobatic prop job. This is probably the reason that even an ARF wood built jet like you show above is so much more money. Limited market......
3. Structure, there is typically more composite materials used in the jets, not always, but typically.
4. Time to produce. Fiberglass models are still layed up by hand, not computer built. In an aerobatic airplane, all the wood is laser cut, die cut etc. Yes it still has to be assembled, but so does the jet. There is probably far more time involved in assembling a jet kit at the factory than a Yak 54.
5. Finishing methods, if you're comparing an ARF to an ARF, painted jets, be it in the mold or out of the mold is more expensive than plastic iron on film. Probably more time consuming too.
If you compare a giant scale plane from Composite ARF or 3W, you'll be hard pressed to find a $500 one, they are up there with the cost of jets.
Heck, you really wanna see expensive, look at some of the new 2M pattern planes, they are as much or more than jets with 1/4 of the pieces.
That's not to say that jets are a good deal, some of them are certainly very expensive for what you receive compared to others, but I think part of the cost of a composite jet is in the idea that they are sort of the "ferrari" of the RC world, and you pay for that priviledge, it may not be right, but it is what it is.
Just my 2 cents anyway
Well, there's a few reasons that I can think of:
1. Cost of molds, there are far more molds to be made for a jet than most aerobatic airplanes. Most aerobatic airplanes are limited to a cowl and wheel pants for fiberglass parts. Molds are expensive to make, that cost finds it's way into the kit.
2. Limited market, for every one jet that is sold, there are probably 10 or more aerobatic airplanes sold. Look back to point number 1, that means that the cost of the molds being divided into the kits has to be higher per aircraft than if it was an aerobatic prop job. This is probably the reason that even an ARF wood built jet like you show above is so much more money. Limited market......
3. Structure, there is typically more composite materials used in the jets, not always, but typically.
4. Time to produce. Fiberglass models are still layed up by hand, not computer built. In an aerobatic airplane, all the wood is laser cut, die cut etc. Yes it still has to be assembled, but so does the jet. There is probably far more time involved in assembling a jet kit at the factory than a Yak 54.
5. Finishing methods, if you're comparing an ARF to an ARF, painted jets, be it in the mold or out of the mold is more expensive than plastic iron on film. Probably more time consuming too.
If you compare a giant scale plane from Composite ARF or 3W, you'll be hard pressed to find a $500 one, they are up there with the cost of jets.
Heck, you really wanna see expensive, look at some of the new 2M pattern planes, they are as much or more than jets with 1/4 of the pieces.
That's not to say that jets are a good deal, some of them are certainly very expensive for what you receive compared to others, but I think part of the cost of a composite jet is in the idea that they are sort of the "ferrari" of the RC world, and you pay for that priviledge, it may not be right, but it is what it is.
Just my 2 cents anyway
Tamjet please consider the above photos
Am not directing my focus on the composite jets but as the pic shows, a regular wood kit and standard landing gear ?? for 800 dollars ?
You are on an international market which means u got a very huge market.
The internet has mad it possible for people to do buisness almost anywhere.
Th cat is out the bag that everything comes from china.
Belive it or not i saw a " quality made " yak first cost being $150.00
I buy lawn mower for 200.00 bucks 5 hp when a 50 CC engine is for $600.00 !!
#28
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Please justify ??
Dude - it's really simple - if you don't want to pay the going rate for that kit, then don't buy it.
Since you think the market is "very huge" , and the costs so low - why not put your money where your mouth is and start up your own company manufacturing and selling jet kits. By your reasoning, you ought to be able to sell high quality kits much cheaper than the competition while still becoming a multi-millionaire overnight.
Please let us know when you have accomplished this.
Since you think the market is "very huge" , and the costs so low - why not put your money where your mouth is and start up your own company manufacturing and selling jet kits. By your reasoning, you ought to be able to sell high quality kits much cheaper than the competition while still becoming a multi-millionaire overnight.
Please let us know when you have accomplished this.
#29
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RE: Please justify ??
Yeah Baby! I love these posts about prices and why things cost what they do - I guess we have a bunch of people in this hobby that simply do not understand economics.
#30
RE: Please justify ??
From a different perspective... Having now made plugs, molds, and working on the first prototype out of those molds.... the time and money it takes to do this is crazy... especially the time.
Don't get me wrong, it's very rewarding, but the time to develop something from scratch is more than you would think.
My point of view has shifted over the last few years. All kits are bargains, BV included.
Lance
Don't get me wrong, it's very rewarding, but the time to develop something from scratch is more than you would think.
My point of view has shifted over the last few years. All kits are bargains, BV included.
Lance
#31
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RE: Please justify ??
Lance,
I think you spent more money on balsa blocks then most manufacturers spend on an entire kit!
Well worth it though, she's a beautiful beast!
Eric
I think you spent more money on balsa blocks then most manufacturers spend on an entire kit!
Well worth it though, she's a beautiful beast!
Eric
#32
RE: Please justify ??
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
Dude - it's really simple - if you don't want to pay the going rate for that kit, then don't buy it.
Since you think the market is "very huge" , and the costs so low - why not put your money where your mouth is and start up your own company manufacturing and selling jet kits. By your reasoning, you ought to be able to sell high quality kits much cheaper than the competition while still becoming a multi-millionaire overnight.
Please let us know when you have accomplished this.
Dude - it's really simple - if you don't want to pay the going rate for that kit, then don't buy it.
Since you think the market is "very huge" , and the costs so low - why not put your money where your mouth is and start up your own company manufacturing and selling jet kits. By your reasoning, you ought to be able to sell high quality kits much cheaper than the competition while still becoming a multi-millionaire overnight.
Please let us know when you have accomplished this.
Gordon,
What a crock. Why is it anytime somoene has an opinion or asks a question that falls into the category of ''anything but lock-and-step agreement" with you guys, you come at them like this? When did this place stop being someplace modelers go for a free exchange of ideas and opinions? You so completely mischaracterize what the man wrote, and I'm sure you know it. I'm not sure what "us" you refer to, but speak for yourself.
#34
RE: Please justify ??
ORIGINAL: gmeister
I can understand comparing the wife and jets. What ever gets me out of the house and away is worth the money.
I can understand comparing the wife and jets. What ever gets me out of the house and away is worth the money.
LOL,
Gary, you should take that act on the road!
#35
My Feedback: (24)
RE: Please justify ??
ORIGINAL: Lance Campbell
From a different perspective... Having now made plugs, molds, and working on the first prototype out of those molds.... the time and money it takes to do this is crazy... especially the time.
Don't get me wrong, it's very rewarding, but the time to develop something from scratch is more than you would think.
My point of view has shifted over the last few years. All kits are bargains, BV included.
Lance
From a different perspective... Having now made plugs, molds, and working on the first prototype out of those molds.... the time and money it takes to do this is crazy... especially the time.
Don't get me wrong, it's very rewarding, but the time to develop something from scratch is more than you would think.
My point of view has shifted over the last few years. All kits are bargains, BV included.
Lance
That's a good point, and something else lots of folks don't consider with BVM is that BV has to pay somebody to do that work. Those people are skilled, educated, in this country, and most are the primary bread-winners for their families. All that means that they probably have a salary of maybe, $40k/year or more. Then say it takes two guys 6 months to design, test, perfect, and bring to production, a new jet kit (that's probably low by half...). With salaries, benefits, supplies, etc. you've easily got $100k tied up just in development costs. For a decent investment, you've got to pay that back with in about two years, five at the most, and also the number of kits you're going to sell goes down each year after its introduced. So say an estimate of 100 kits a year for the first two years. That's $500/kit just to pay back the development costs...
Bob
#36
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Please justify ??
Frankly, I think Bahamadude is just expressing what many folks think. These darn toys aren't cheap. I'd be willing to bet that China would sell them really cheap to us (what's cheap? Who knows, but certainly cheaper than what we are paying for them now) but we'd get, very likely, absolutely ZERO customer support.
I don't think that I like to bug the companies that sell me my jets, but I do like to know that I can call and ask "Mr. Schulman, what is the CG on the Kingcat?" or "Mr. Nguyen, what's the elevator throw on the elevator?" or that I can call Patty at BVM and have send me a new set of bandit struts or I can drive to Tam's and get a new left main, etc...
I think this is what we are really paying for. Is it worth it? Maybe...I'd like to pay $199 for an f-18C turbine ARF in a blue angels color scheme from Tower. I'd absolutely LOVE IT!
Raf
I don't think that I like to bug the companies that sell me my jets, but I do like to know that I can call and ask "Mr. Schulman, what is the CG on the Kingcat?" or "Mr. Nguyen, what's the elevator throw on the elevator?" or that I can call Patty at BVM and have send me a new set of bandit struts or I can drive to Tam's and get a new left main, etc...
I think this is what we are really paying for. Is it worth it? Maybe...I'd like to pay $199 for an f-18C turbine ARF in a blue angels color scheme from Tower. I'd absolutely LOVE IT!
Raf
#40
RE: Please justify ??
ORIGINAL: KC36330
That's the way i like it, I've been in the hobby for 18 yrs, been flying jets for about 15 of those and I'm the ONLY one in my club that does.
kc
That's the way i like it, I've been in the hobby for 18 yrs, been flying jets for about 15 of those and I'm the ONLY one in my club that does.
kc
That's a fun feeling sometimes, huh?
#43
RE: Please justify ??
about the only other member of the club I'm in that would ever own a jet flies with me 99% of the time and gets stick time so he's getting the bug real bad the best part of getting him hooked is anything he has i get to fly and vise versa, that way i can talk him into getting what I'd like to have next [8D]
kc
kc