David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
05-20-2007, 11:43 PM
#52
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
ORIGINAL: C2_Hobbies
Error,
Any reason you are not posting the full video instead of just stills?
Just curious.
Error,
Any reason you are not posting the full video instead of just stills?
Just curious.
05-20-2007, 11:48 PM
#53
RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
ORIGINAL: Error401
Still compressing it. mp4 ipod format. comming soon. real soon.
Still compressing it. mp4 ipod format. comming soon. real soon.
kc
05-21-2007, 12:19 AM
#54
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
ORIGINAL: KC36330
you mean you don't wanna hold out and try to eBay it like DS??
kc
ORIGINAL: Error401
Still compressing it. mp4 ipod format. comming soon. real soon.
Still compressing it. mp4 ipod format. comming soon. real soon.
kc
05-21-2007, 12:24 AM
#56
RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
ORIGINAL: Error401
Maybe the original dv without watermark and sound overlay. Wasn't much interest in my frame grabs.
ORIGINAL: KC36330
you mean you don't wanna hold out and try to eBay it like DS??
kc
ORIGINAL: Error401
Still compressing it. mp4 ipod format. comming soon. real soon.
Still compressing it. mp4 ipod format. comming soon. real soon.
kc
Although it was in front of the pits it didn't appear to be right in front of the pits, more like a hundred feet away but hard to tell.
05-21-2007, 06:35 AM
#58
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
"My question is this, if the radio was a 10x, what happened to the failsafe? I fly a 10x and hate to think that the FS is flawed"
401
From what we here this was not a signal loss situation, so no failsafe would engage.
What we are being told is that there was an un-commanded application of down elevator.
All other controls seem to have been maintained.
It could have been a RX problem or a servo failure.
Even if it was a loss of signal, there was no time for the failsafe to activate.
Paul
401
From what we here this was not a signal loss situation, so no failsafe would engage.
What we are being told is that there was an un-commanded application of down elevator.
All other controls seem to have been maintained.
It could have been a RX problem or a servo failure.
Even if it was a loss of signal, there was no time for the failsafe to activate.
Paul
05-21-2007, 07:03 AM
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
more like 20 feet away from the pilots line , but who cares anyway i have seen jets crash inside the pits at my field 5 times i am use to it one over my head hit in front of 30 people 5 feet away and exploted like a bomb at markam park fl s*** happens ,.. by the way the most impressive jet pilot i have ever seen was at joe nall flying some big x31 looking jet he was from germany i hope some one will post a vid from this guy he was doing all kinds off impressive 3d stuff close to ground and fast-- flying made all the other pilots look like old school
05-21-2007, 07:50 AM
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
ORIGINAL: mick15
Could it be the back of the fuselage drooped down with the application of up elevator? it happened to my UB.
m
Could it be the back of the fuselage drooped down with the application of up elevator? it happened to my UB.
m
05-21-2007, 08:01 AM
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
[link=http://www.401recon.com/images/BVM_Crash_Nall07.mp4]Bandit crash @ Joe Nall 07[/link]
Right click, save as, play in quicktime/itunes/ipod.
15mb mp4. Enjoy.
401
Right click, save as, play in quicktime/itunes/ipod.
15mb mp4. Enjoy.
401
05-21-2007, 08:43 AM
#63
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
ORIGINAL: David Gladwin
Having watched this video I just have to say that once again we have GOT to take this as a BIG warning to just can happen with model jets. If one of the world's best pilots flying a perfectly prepared model, equipped to the highest standard, can have such a severe crash so close to the pits, then, as I have been saying for years, a really serious accident may be just around the corner. We were lucky, very, very lucky, to get away with it again. Just imagine what could have happened if the down elevator had been accompanied by left aileron and the model had gone into the pits, need I elaborate ?
So once again, is it not time to review exactly how, when and where we fly low, high speed manoevres and their proximity to the pits and flight line ? We learned in fullsize display flying, the hard way, that sensible distances from crowd lines and minimum heights MUST be observed,and rigorously enforced and flying directly at the crowd must be absolutely minimised.
Having watched this video I just have to say that once again we have GOT to take this as a BIG warning to just can happen with model jets. If one of the world's best pilots flying a perfectly prepared model, equipped to the highest standard, can have such a severe crash so close to the pits, then, as I have been saying for years, a really serious accident may be just around the corner. We were lucky, very, very lucky, to get away with it again. Just imagine what could have happened if the down elevator had been accompanied by left aileron and the model had gone into the pits, need I elaborate ?
So once again, is it not time to review exactly how, when and where we fly low, high speed manoevres and their proximity to the pits and flight line ? We learned in fullsize display flying, the hard way, that sensible distances from crowd lines and minimum heights MUST be observed,and rigorously enforced and flying directly at the crowd must be absolutely minimised.
You mention minimum heights, the prospect of the uncommanded elevator being accompanied by uncommanded left aileron etc .... well, in that scenario, the lower he's flying, the better - a down + left 'snap' from say 4' altitude is going to put the aircraft in very quickly and possibly have some pieces reach a pilot's station ; the same behaviour from, say, 20' altitude would let the aircraft and/or its debris travel significantly closer to (or perhaps into) the main crowd.
In this particular case, I would be more concerned about how close to the flying area there are hordes of people sitting on the ground without protection in front of them (i.e not only are they close to the action, but they are also less able to get out of the way since they first have to spend time standing up), than the height at which the demo is being flown.
Regards,
Gordon
05-21-2007, 08:47 AM
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
05-21-2007, 09:03 AM
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
Gordon
Whether the people at the front of the crowd were sitting or standing they would have had no chance of moving out of the way if the model had swerved into the pits. It was very , very fortunate that the crash was straight down the runway. IMHO the crowd was far too close to the runway centre without any form of protection.
John
Whether the people at the front of the crowd were sitting or standing they would have had no chance of moving out of the way if the model had swerved into the pits. It was very , very fortunate that the crash was straight down the runway. IMHO the crowd was far too close to the runway centre without any form of protection.
John
05-21-2007, 09:04 AM
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
Re: David Gladwin's safety reminder.
I've see a Bandit fly that fast before, out over the cornfields, safely, wow. Havn't seen a crash quite as bad as that before.
Event organizers, sponsors and CDs should know that a major reason I do not often attend large jet rallies is that I don't really need to see a model fly like that again, nor want to at a field with such a large audience at significant risk. As a jet pilot I wouldn't want the greater risk of injury to any bystander, and as an knowledgeable observer, I don't really want to be that close to any large number of high performance models flying simultaneously.
My 2 cents worth.
I've see a Bandit fly that fast before, out over the cornfields, safely, wow. Havn't seen a crash quite as bad as that before.
Event organizers, sponsors and CDs should know that a major reason I do not often attend large jet rallies is that I don't really need to see a model fly like that again, nor want to at a field with such a large audience at significant risk. As a jet pilot I wouldn't want the greater risk of injury to any bystander, and as an knowledgeable observer, I don't really want to be that close to any large number of high performance models flying simultaneously.
My 2 cents worth.
05-21-2007, 09:38 AM
#70
RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
The camera angels etc are a little deceiving about how Joe Nall is setup.
During the demos (which by the way are the only time that any high speed passes etc are allowed if I remember right) are quite a way out in front of the crowd.
What you can see on the cameras is the large pilot staging area that is closed to most people. These people know about the danger and acknowledge the consequences of setting in that area.
I'm not sure but I think the pilots stations are a good 75-100 ft out in front of the crowd.
I think they've set up everything pretty safe short of putting up a nascar fence for the spectators....
If a radio goes out or linkage fails or.., You might not be safe where ever you are..
During the demos (which by the way are the only time that any high speed passes etc are allowed if I remember right) are quite a way out in front of the crowd.
What you can see on the cameras is the large pilot staging area that is closed to most people. These people know about the danger and acknowledge the consequences of setting in that area.
I'm not sure but I think the pilots stations are a good 75-100 ft out in front of the crowd.
I think they've set up everything pretty safe short of putting up a nascar fence for the spectators....
If a radio goes out or linkage fails or.., You might not be safe where ever you are..
05-21-2007, 09:58 AM
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RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
ORIGINAL: jonkoppisch
I'm not sure but I think the pilots stations are a good 75-100 ft out in front of the crowd.
I think they've set up everything pretty safe short of putting up a nascar fence for the spectators....
I'm not sure but I think the pilots stations are a good 75-100 ft out in front of the crowd.
I think they've set up everything pretty safe short of putting up a nascar fence for the spectators....
AMA mandates separation distances for certain types of flying ( e.g. see http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/515-A.pdf : 400 ft separation to any spectators, 350 ft to judges, etc ) ; if we don't apply sensible separation on our own, we'll probably end up with rules for that being added to the turbine reg's too.
Gordon
[ edit - corrected my math(s) since I had too little caffiene before doing the calc's ... duration is 0.26 sec, not 1.46 as I stupidly posted ]
05-21-2007, 10:02 AM
#75
RE: David Shulman crash at Joe Nall?
Wow, over a football field away!!!! 
I haven't been to any flying sites like that 
Of course I haven't been to muncie. I'm sure it's set up that way...
like I said, It probably doesn't matter where you are..
I haven't been to any flying sites like that Of course I haven't been to muncie. I'm sure it's set up that way...
75 ft equals 1.4 seconds
like I said, It probably doesn't matter where you are..