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  1. #2601

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Well here it is, finaly finished it... I think I might have a weight issue though.. I beefed up the wings, stripped the sheeting off the bottom and reinforced the retract rails and reglued the ribs with gorilla glue, added more shear webbing. added a hard wood dowel in the wing tube,, I'm using the prolink struts, have dual 6 volt 2000ma nimh batteries and a 3400 ma nimh pack for the ecu,, powered by a P60se.. The Jet comes in at 19.8 lbs DRY,, I also think I'm going to need to relocate the batteries,, its severly nose heavy.
    I put a can of turbine oil on the rear stab just to see how much weight it would take to balance it. The can weighed 2.2 lbs,, Crazy. I'm also having trouble with the radio system, I'm using the futaba 2.4 6014FS all the servos work fine, except the rudders. I have them on a Y connector, they work one at a time fine but together thay chatter like crazy.. looking at the threads about this rec, its because the signal voltage is only 2.7 volts on channels 3-14 channels 1 and 2 are 3 volts. Futaba says this can be overcome by installing a electro dynamics amplifer buffer.. I'm going to order one monday. I hope it works. I really dont want to have to use PCM.

    I have to say getting all the plumbing and electronics in this bird was tough,,just the thought of having to remove it all the relocate the batteries is making me cringe. I should of planned it better.... Anybody have any thoughts on how the plane will fly with the P60, with the plane being at nearly 20lbs at this point I hope it gets off the ground.
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  2. #2602
    aquaskiman's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Airspeed I don’t think the weight will hurt you but get it balanced at 13in. I have a friend that had one with a p80 in it and it weighed 19 lbs and we fly at 5200 ft.
    George

  3. #2603
    BaldEagel's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    airspeed

    If you are using a 6014 Rx which is 14 channel why are you using a Y lead for the rudder? put them on different channels and your problem would be solved, if you don't have a Tx that will operate a 14 channel Rx, buy a smaller one get the amp and I will buy the 6014 from you. LOL

    Did you know that the 6014HS is now discontinued and they have gone over to the 6014FS which operates digial servos at 7ms on channel 1 too 6, this is an upgrade from the previous 14ms on all channels.

    Mike
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  4. #2604

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Mike I think you have it the other way around Futaba discontinued the 6014FS and is going to replace it with the 6014HS

    Heres how I have the channels set up,,, If theres another way let me know,,

    I have a servo for the nose wheel and wanted to use a mix to have it work with the rudders, but I cant get it to work correctly,, I'm doing something wrong. I'll have to get some help with the setup

    1- ailerons with a Y
    2- single elavator
    3- throttle
    4-rudders with a Y
    5-retracts
    6-left flap
    7-right flap
    8-steering (when I get the mix t work)
    9-brakes

  5. #2605

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Airspeed,

    I got your email i'll also reply to you there. My Falcon came out no fuel ( header tank full though) at 16.5lbs. I fibreglassed the model and put heaps of paint on it . The P-60 Pushes it around lovely! ( see the video a few posts above) .

    I dont see 19.5 Lbs a problem it will still fly well. As for the weight issue... Where have you everything located...

    mine built slightly tail heavy due to the fibreglassing on the booms. however i have a single JR8411 servo on the tail , JR821 Spektrum servo's on every other flight control and Nose Wheel Steering.

    I will post photos on the lay out when i get home ( at work) but i have the fuel tank very after ( protrudes past main spar by 1inch) the radio trays onboard the aircraft at directly behind the nose gear and around 9inch's long. 2 Tier System . The air tanks are in the nose as well as the 6cell Ni-cd directly above the nose landing gear.

    Im using Duralight batteries ( 2150mAh ) x2 and there are approx middle of the canopy .

    Obviously i sudguest moving your batteries and components before adding further weight. Neil an experienced flyer here in perth has all his batteries behind the main spar on the floor.


    If i can be of any further help please PM me

    I'll Try and upload the photos soon .


    On another note im happy to boast ( sorry but im proud ) that my Falcon won Best Sports jet at The Latest Jet rally in Perth Western Australia on the weekend just been . Very happy.

    I've had 2 Flame out flights... conisidently both flights i had been doing rolling circles... every other flight ( 9 flights in total ) the engine performed flawlessly.. I got the same shut down msg both times "FUEL FAIL"

    Anyone have any ideas?

    Happy Landings everyone!

    Michael

  6. #2606
    BaldEagel's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet


    ORIGINAL: airspeed917

    Mike I think you have it the other way around Futaba discontinued the 6014FS and is going to replace it with the 6014HS

    Heres how I have the channels set up,,, If theres another way let me know,,

    I have a servo for the nose wheel and wanted to use a mix to have it work with the rudders, but I cant get it to work correctly,, I'm doing something wrong. I'll have to get some help with the setup

    1- ailerons with a Y
    2- single elavator
    3- throttle
    4-rudders with a Y
    5-retracts
    6-left flap
    7-right flap
    8-steering (when I get the mix t work)
    9-brakes
    What ever way around it is, they have already done it, what Tx do you have, I have a 12FG and can help with the set up on that using indipendant channels for all control surfaces.

    Mike
    My Gast is Flabered.
    No matter what anyone say's 100% is the maximum you can get.
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  7. #2607

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Mike I have the 10C,, Even though the rec has 14 channels only 8 can be used in mixes, right? Ron

  8. #2608

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Airspeed,

    I'm surprised you came out so heavy. You might want to check your scale. I did lots of reinforcing, re-sheeting, painting, and re-covering, and mine came out 15.8#, which I thought was heavy.

    You have way more battery capacity than needed and could probably save about a pound there. I have a single 1700 mah 6v nicad Rx battery and a 1800 Lipo for the ECU. Total battery weight is about 10 oz. So I have to recharge after 4 flights, no big deal.

    The plane is naturally nose heavy so you should shift as much weight to the rear as you can when installing your equipment. Even at 20 lbs. the plane should fly fine. The only time you should notice the extra weight is on landing.

    Joe


  9. #2609

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    I just took all the batteries out of the front put them behind the rear wing tube, I had to cut a rectangular hole to get them in, now I'm going to have to make a hatch to cover the existing hole and the one I just cut out..

  10. #2610

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    By the way I put the first two flights on my Red Bull Falcon (see posts 2583 & 2584) today. Everything went perfect.

    Joe

  11. #2611
    BaldEagel's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    ORIGINAL: airspeed917

    Mike I have the 10C,, Even though the rec has 14 channels only 8 can be used in mixes, right? Ron
    If I remember correctly from a glance at the 10C manual, you do only have 8 mixes, but have 10 channels, on the set up model menu you can choose two aileron two flap which does not use up a mix, the advantage of this is that you can set up butterfly flap off the side slider in the airbrake function, I have it set as half slider gives 45deg flap from half slider the ailerons start to reflex and I get full flap and up ailerons, you then would have to mix two channels too the rudder so that you still have nose steering, don't try winglets in the set up menu, it wont give you any elevator as its meant for a flying wing, that still leaves three channels for elevator, gear and brakes, if the 10C works the same as my 12 FG then you need to group certain chanels together to get the right amount of responce, i.e. the channels are set in groups of four, so you don't want the rudder on channels 8 and 9 you would set them up on the channels between 1 and 4 or 5 and 8.

    2 aileron = 2
    2 flap = 4
    1 steering =5
    2 rudder =7
    1 elevator = 8
    1 gear = 9
    1 brakes = 10

    Throttle has to get in there some how, so Y lead the steering off one of the rudder channels, means you can't switch if off when retracted.

    Mike
    My Gast is Flabered.
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    If you see a deleted post, my Avatar say's it all.

  12. #2612
    BaldEagel's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Further to the above, it seems that channels 9 and 10 are not proportional and therefore can only be used for switching, i.e. gear, perhaps you will have to put your brakes if you want them proportional with a Y lead into down elevator, also it seems the 10C is not digital so it does not send the signal in packets, therefore, you can disregard the comment above re channel grouping.

    Mike
    My Gast is Flabered.
    No matter what anyone say's 100% is the maximum you can get.
    If you see a deleted post, my Avatar say's it all.

  13. #2613
    BaldEagel's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet


    ORIGINAL: joeflyer

    By the way I put the first two flights on my Red Bull Falcon (see posts 2583 & 2584) today. Everything went perfect.

    Joe
    Joe

    Congratulations on your second succesful maiden of a Falcon 120, your making a habit of this Joe. LOL

    Mike
    My Gast is Flabered.
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  14. #2614

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Mike,

    This one flies just as well as the first one. I was the first in my club to convert a Falcon 120, and put the first flight on it in November 2007. After seeing mine fly all last season about 10 guys in the club bought one. Right now there are two flying, two almost ready, and two more being actively worked on. I'll be surprised if the others are ever completed.

    Falcons forever!

    Joe

  15. #2615
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Was flying my Falcon the other day with a Wren 54. A friend who was watching said he saw one of the wings flexing quite a lot during the flight. When I landed, I noticed one wing had more up & down flex than the other. At home, after some investigation, I found the main wing tube was around half an inch too short. The wing relies on the tube locating exactly into a blanked off hole in a former at the ends of the tube. There is only about a quarter of an inch for the ends of the tube to locate, so the length of the tube must be exact to properly support each wing. The alu tube is 20mm diameter. A new tube of the correct length has made a big difference to the stiffness of the structure.
    JET FLYING:- Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

  16. #2616

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Any chance you can post the length of the tube please.

    cheers

  17. #2617
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    ORIGINAL: steveline9

    Any chance you can post the length of the tube please.

    cheers

    The length of the tube should be 515mm. Diameter is 20mm.
    Be aware that the blanked off tube end formers may not line up exactly with the tube ends. I had to clear out some glue by using the old tube like a reamer. I cut a series of slots on one end of the old tube with a hacksaw & by usimg a twisting motion, was able to clear out the glue from the former.
    JET FLYING:- Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

  18. #2618

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    FALCON WINS PRIZE AT JET DAY IN AUSTRALIA!

    Well done!

    The only credit i can take is for holding the spray gun trigger and dumping some paint and a few graphic and pinstripes all over it...lets hope we can get Mike to give us some pics of the work he did For this Winner.....a very big credit to Giggo (THANX GIGGO!) whos design I used to build the struts for the Award winning Jet!

    Amazing Really for a Low cost Airframe!
    But we all know its how much work goes into making a "PROP" airframe into a Turbine worthy SkyEater

    So WELL DONE MIKE!

    your building skills where used to win other people,s prizes on their jets as well!

    the guy is a legend i tell you!

    Watching Giggo and Mike Fly this weekend was excellent Fun!

    I hope to get mine in the air soon too!

    I wanna win some prizes too!

    Cheers!

  19. #2619
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Hi all,
    great to read your building tips and to share your enjoyment of flying this great whoosh plane, i rarely have much to say especially over the last month as i have re-test flew my eurosport and the following 9 flights-all good
    i have only been flying a handfull(well nearly 2 handfulls-but time passes so quickly) of years and have only built(i know atrf prop plane stuff is not building) about 3 planes,so building tips from me are few and far between but 1 that may be of help-
    re battery in rear to balance,i cut a hole in the side of my fuz behind the rear spar and fed the 4.8volt sub c in,packed the battery and the hole with foam and lightly tacked the hatch back in place-it can not fall out or be seen once the wing is on.
    i wish i had got into this hobby years ago but then agian i probably wouldnt of got any money left by now at the rate these jets keep ringing up the ££££££££.
    happy flying all
    mark
    put put put put put put put put

  20. #2620

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Ref the wing tubes, i posted this a long time ago, the old wing is different in design and needs shorter tubes than the later version of the model (@ 1 inch difference). I think they use the same tube lengths in both kits, so a later model will have a tube which is too short. This applies to both wing tubes. Everyone should check that their tubes reach the end rib in each wing when assembeled. cheers \tim

  21. #2621

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Hi all ,


    Hows all the flying going? I hope your all getting plenty of it. Just posted a new video of the flights over the last weekend in which the Falcon 120 was entered into the comps of which it won "Best Sports Model "

    Flew beautifully. Had 9 flights over the weekend with it. The footage was only taken from 2 .

    Again a Huge Thanks to Haydn ( Jetjunkie) for the massiva amount of hours, time and skill he devoted into the model thru the painting and also the manufacturing of the Custom scale Landing gear struts. There is good things going to be coming out of his workshop.. so ill be watching with a keen eye! .

    Anyhow Hope you all enjoy the vid.

    http://www.vimeo.com/4515545


    Chat to you all again soon

    Michael


  22. #2622
    Launch Pad McQuack's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Finally got around to installing my Noray aftermarket canopy. Thought I would post a couple pictures. Installed a scale partial depth interior at the same time.
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    Team Airtronics and 42% Products Factory Pilot
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  23. #2623

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Where do you get the Noray aftermarket canopy? I was looking on here couldnt find the tread. Just ordered my Falcon 120 3 days ago and would like to get a canopy......they just look better.....

    Derrick

  24. #2624
    Launch Pad McQuack's Avatar
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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Derrick I read back threw the thread and the post is on 1902. It is a huge improvment over the stock canopy. I know I was one of the first to get one so I posted a picture on post 1951 of the unpainted blank as I pulled it out of the box for everyone here to see.
    Team Airtronics and 42% Products Factory Pilot
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  25. #2625

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    RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet

    Guys,, I'm having a little trouble balancing this jet,, I'm balancing it upside down right on 13",, I have all the batteries 2 5cell and 1 3500 7.2 as far back as I can get them all the way past the rear tube.. and I still had to place 11oz of lead on the rear stab for it to balance,,, I didnt attach the weight yet I'm trying to figure out a way so it wont be sticking out.
    anybody have to add this much weight? I think its the prolink nose gear,, very heavyduty,, other than that theres nothing in the nose but the retract tank.


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